Nicola Tesla. Stifled Hero.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by TheOd

 

I see you don't understand this concept.

Actually, I do.
But it's not really the topic, is it?

What do you think about Tesla the eugenicist and the real motives behind his work? Was he working toward a perfect world where only those who were deemed "suitable" would be allowed to have children?

edit on 8/3/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

The funny part is that those people who agree with him about selective breeding would probably be on his list of "do not breed"

Originally posted by WormwoodSquirm

Originally posted by Phage

Please show me where I have "vilified" Tesla in this thread? I don't think that "deheroizing" someone is exactly the same as vilification.

Phage I hate to break it to you. You may be smart but you are a little ant compared to Tesla and you can try in vain all day to bring down Tesla as a hero, you will not succeed.

You are way out classed dude.

I find this huge amount of energy you are thrusting into this ridiculous thread offensive. Why on Earth would you wake up and decide to spend all day trying to bring Tesla down.

Perhaps you should go back to figuring out UFOs and Optical artifacts and making UFO believers feel stupid. Tesla offend you with his comment? Are you a big fat slob of a human yourself or something?

hahahah phage you have just been served.

in your face!

I'd prefer to hear Tesla elaborate before classifying him as some of the eugenicist whack jobs. For instance perhaps Charles Manson shouldn't be bearing children.

There was a movie about this. sort of. It was called "idiocracy" Here is the synapsis

Joe Bauers, an Army librarian, is judged to be absolutely average in every regard, has no relatives, has no future, so he's chosen to be one of the two test subjects in a top-secret hibernation program. He and hooker Rita were to awaken in one year, but things go wrong and they wake up instead in 2505. By this time, stupid people have outbred intelligent people; the world is (barely) run by morons--and Joe and Rita are the smartest people in America.

Pretty funny movie. I actually think this is coming to pass. There are some real morons running the country right now.

Originally posted by Phage

Do we really want to idolize a eugenicist? Was Tesla really working for the common man? Who knows what the true target of this inventive genius was?

Originally posted by ipsedixit
My amazement at his accomplishments is not diminished by awareness of his mistakes.

Originally posted by stutteringp0et
Tesla's opinions on matters not related to his accomplishments shouldn't be held against him, nor should they take away from his accomplishments. Just like Wernher von Braun (a hero to many) is no less the "Father of Rocket Science" because he was a Nazi.

Perhaps 'We' may have let the preconceptions of 'words', 'labels' blur the reality and 'Recognition' of the brilliance of the man - Tesla? "Idollize", "Hero", "Genuis".....just descriptive words trying to capture the essence of one 'human being'?

No one is perfect, hence we are human. Telsa was human, hence he was not perfect. "What was his true target....?" Did he have one? I read the entire PBS and other supporting documentation. The man had opinions, he felt strongly about things, he decided to invent, challenge thought and change things and made some wonderful, 'hopeful' predictions for peace, the need for no more war, but for humankind to focus on greater ideals.

So to answer your question, which is a valid one, Phage, I think Tesla was a unique brilliant man living in a time, when freedom of thought, expression was blossoming. Tesla should be 'recognized' for his brilliance in scientific brilliance and not his views on social engineering.
I think this is a brilliant quote/statement "My amazement at his accomplishments is not diminished by awareness of his mistakes." by ipsedixi

Equally "Tesla's opinions on matters not related to his accomplishments shouldn't be held against him, nor should they take away from his accomplishments." by stutteringp0et

I think we can reach agreement that there are many brilliant minds that have existed and exist today, However, if we knew all of their personal, intimate thoughts on matters outside their field of expertise, does that make them less brilliant? Or, depending on perspective, just less like-able? Or, just being human? Great Thread, thanks Phage!

Oh, Phage, mighty cult-leader of ATS, please give me the titles of books, journals, scientific readers, university-level studies, anything (except a wikipedia page, which is a disgusting source) that backs up your tale.


To all of you who star and flag your mighty leader, just because you think his powers grow with every push of your mouse-button, I'm so sorry.

Originally posted by Unrealised
Oh, Phage, mighty cult-leader of ATS, please give me the titles of books, journals, scientific readers, university-level studies, anything (except a wikipedia page, which is a disgusting source) that backs up your tale.


To all of you who star and flag your mighty leader, just because you think his powers grow with every push of your mouse-button, I'm so sorry.

Phage can speak for himself as surely he will,...

But your input spews of vindictiveness, jealousy and personal attack!!! What intelligent thought, source, word, relative to the subject matter have you brought to the party? I see none!!

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by ErgoTheEgo

 

It's the "hero" aspect that is the crux of the topic.

To clarify:
Is it reasonable that an avowed eugenicist be placed in high standing as a hero to mankind when his concept of mankind excludes elements deemed, by him, to be unworthy of producing children.

edit on 8/3/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

I am afraid all this discussion will do, is turn all of his fanatic followers into instant eugenics cheerleaders.

Do you expect them to drop Tesla like a hot potato?

In light of this, the big bad US govt comes out smelling like a rose for confiscating his work.

Heros are bad? Govts are good? Can't have any of that around here.

Originally posted by ItDepends

Originally posted by Unrealised
Oh, Phage, mighty cult-leader of ATS, please give me the titles of books, journals, scientific readers, university-level studies, anything (except a wikipedia page, which is a disgusting source) that backs up your tale.


To all of you who star and flag your mighty leader, just because you think his powers grow with every push of your mouse-button, I'm so sorry.

Phage can speak for himself as surely he will,...

But your input spews of vindictiveness, jealousy and personal attack!!! What intelligent thought, source, word, relative to the subject matter have you brought to the party? I see none!!

Vindictiveness? Jealousy? Personal attack?

I should think not.

As a University Student ( 5 years of study, now in my second degree ) I am taught that a Wikipedia article is never to be used for proof.

We are taught to demand peer-reviewed sources. We are instructed to always use and demand first-rate references at all times.

I am simply asking for better information to be used, and, if it is available, to please use it.

That is the intelligent thought I have brought to the discussion. I want quality references, and I think others deserve it, too.

I'm sorry if I've offended you.

reply to post by Phage


I guess I am failing to see the point of painting Tesla as an elitist with ill intentions towards mankind...

Its not as if he is mainstream.. millions of Americans use his inventions without ever knowing his name everyday.

even his ideas that could be harnessed as a weapon, Dr. Tesla announced a combination of four inventions which would make war unthinkable.

we could have the very same discussion about Bill Gates..raised on Planned Parenthood money.. bought all heritage seeds and locked them in a vault.. bought into Monsanto which has GMO corn sterilizing men & women..
openly advocates reduction of the worlds populations..

and he has contributed less to the human race..and more to the businesses which enslave mankind.

but people still idolize him??

Seems to me Tesla wanted peace & to harness energy for the good of mankind..

what a world this would be if for the last hundred years electricity did not shackle people but freed them? or how would the air pollution be now with only electric cars?

but Edison.. like Gates used other people to make things happen..

with obviously questionable motivations..

No, he never electrocuted an elephant. Are you saying that Edison was a murderer?

Edison set out to ruin Westinghouse in “a great political, legal and marketing game” that saw the famous inventor stage publicity events where dogs, horses and even an elephant were killed using Westinghouse’s alternating current.

seems to me the facts of Teslas contributions to us all..

far outweigh this unwarranted speculation bordering on slander.. for your personal fun..

if all you can find is, criminally insane, insane.. that's not enough to paint him as against humanity.

Im not buying what your selling..

views and definitions change over time, as I am sure you know..

so looking back to that time, and what they knew.. if they had no idea about how a crazy person came to be so, it stands to reason that if said person was to procreate the offspring would be also.. crazy..

its a position based within the limitations of the information at the time..

what will be said of you in a hundred years? look at the things you are supporting right this minute which are going to be viewed differently in the future? the system you are operating in does not necessarily represent your personal opinions.. ie you drive a car. you hate the planet. you use fake money, you support debt based interest slavery. you vote in America, you want an empire to conquer the world. remember that phage persona? man, he had a lot of stars.. but sure hated the planet & people..

Originally posted by Phage
The work of Nicola Tesla is often presented on ATS. The man is usually characterized as a stifled genius who's inventions would have set mankind free of the bonds of corporate and government greed and evil.

There is no doubt that he was a very talented man. While his grasp of more advanced science was often wacky (a firm believer in "ether"), his use of existing science did allow him to produce some ingenious inventions. It is true that our dependence upon electricity has much to do with his work.


But was Tesla really working for the good of all mankind? Maybe not. His writing seems to indicate something else. Here is a statement from the man himself:

The only method compatible with our notions of civilization and the race is to prevent the breeding of the unfit by sterilization and the deliberate guidance of the mating instinct, Several European countries and a number of states of the American Union sterilize the criminal and the insane. This is not sufficient.

www.pbs.org...
Those European countries he was taking about were those like Nazi Germany. Our hero was a eugenicist, in favor of selecting who should should be allowed to have children and who should not. For him "mankind" was a limited set of humans.

He didn't like fat people either, or those who dressed funny (in his opinion)

Tesla could be harsh at times, openly expressing disgust for overweight people, such as when he fired a secretary because of her weight.[187] He was quick to criticize clothing. On several occasions, Tesla directed a subordinate to go home and change her dress.[169]

en.wikipedia.org...-188

Do we really want to idolize a eugenicist? Was Tesla really working for the common man? Who knows what the true target of this inventive genius was?

edit on 8/3/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

edit on 8/3/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

While i have different views on eugenics i don't think you should demonize him for words he wrote. A defamation of someones character, as profound his ideals and inventions were, needs much more merit than told by a nazi apologist who has motive to defame tesla especially after betraying him after befriending him.

In 1933 Viereck again met with Hitler, now Germany's Führer, in Berlin, and in 1934 he gave a speech to twenty thousand "Friends of the New Germany" at New York's Madison Square Garden, in which he compared Hitler to Franklin Delano Roosevelt and told his audience to sympathize with National Socialism without being antisemites. His Jewish friends denounced him as "George Swastika Viereck," but he continued to promote the German Nazis.
Tom Reiss, The Orientalist, Random House, 2005, pp. 288-289

In his article, "The Problem of Increasing Human Energy," published in 1900, Tesla stated:

For ages this idea [that each of us is only part of a whole] has been proclaimed in the consummately wise teachings of religion, probably not alone as a means of insuring peace and harmony among men, but as a deeply founded truth. The Buddhist expresses it in one way, the Christian in another, but both say the same: We are all one.

Is this a man who truly wants death? Are snippets and word of mouth enough to truly diminish his light? I thank you though for sharing the strangest person i've never gotten to meet and someone who was beyond his time. Overpopulation is a different subject but i do agree as harsh as it may be. You need to be rational about it and look at it from an angle where it shows how come various cultures need their isolation in a sense to keep from becoming mutated or to spread and infect another culture in a detrimental way.

reply to post by Unrealised

Look, no problem, no offense taken. I can appreciate peer-to-peer reviews and the need for specific documentation. So I understand your request, I just took exception to the way you asked for it. No worries.

As I am sure you are aware, ATS is an open community. Therefore, not necessarily a scientific forum with specific requirements to post almost anything. That's the environment here.

I can appreciate your studies and educational investment of thought and the need for credibility in discussions. Perhaps a simple question to Phage such as, "Do you have any additional and more credible sources such as 1.) 2.) 3.) etc.... you get the point of my suggestion. Have a good day!

Tesla wasn't a hero...he was the friken man, a martyr.

Wanting great things for humanity.

Just wait untill the 1000's of Tesla's return

Click here for more information.

It seems that while this thread is going on and on, its only purpose is to divert all of our attention from something else of great importance going on right now, and yes it is working, you are so good at your job Phage, Star and Flag, not.

reply to post by jvm222

While i have different views on eugenics i don't think you should demonize him for words he wrote.

I haven't demonized him.
I've questioned his "classification" by many that he was more saint than man. A hero who was working for all mankind. His own words show that his version of all mankind excluded many.

Is this a man who truly wants death?

Who said anything about death? He wanted forced sterilization of those considered to be "unfit".

reply to post by Unrealised

As a University Student ( 5 years of study, now in my second degree ) I am taught that a Wikipedia article is never to be used for proof.

The quote from wiki includes its own references but it wasn't really the point. It was actually meant as a tounge in cheek jab on top of the much more serious matter. It was a bad idea. Tongue in cheek does not come across well in this medium.

The direct quotes are from an interview with Tesla which was published in the February 1937 issue of Liberty. Following the link would have provided that information.