Breaking News! George Zimmerman found not guilty.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Here's a scenario for you:

Say Zimmerman hadn't had a gun that night. He exits his car, thinking the dispatcher wants him to (which the dispatcher said was feasible), to see what way "the guy" went. Martin knows he's being followed, doubles back, and confronts, then attacks Zimmerman. In this scenario, Zimmerman has no gun, his cries for help go unanswered, and Martin kills him by continuing to smash his head against the pavement. Would you demand justice for George, and that his killer be placed in prison?

This highlights the different mentality between conservative and liberal states. In liberal states people don't play cop and do racial profiling. They mind their own business and expect the police to take care of things.

I understand your logic but I still don't quite agree with it. It sends the wrong message imho.

GZ would not have to commit manslaughter "for self defense" if he minded his own damm business.

People have a tendency to get nervous when followed, especially if that person is carrying a gun on their person.

edit on 15/7/13 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)

Detroit is a liberal city, so is DC. How's that working out?

Originally posted by RalagaNarHallas
reply to post by conspiracy nut

 

think the key part of your statement was CLAIMED to meaning once again any claims(molestation) have yet to be proven in a court of law but by all means continue to ignore the corner stone of our justice system:innocent until proven guilty

i never ignored anything, i all along was for manslaughter but the evidence just wasn't there to convict, zimmermans story was full of holes but we cant convict him just because we don't believe his story. the pro zimmerman crowd has dragged trayons name through the mud but zimmerman was no angel either. the verdict is in and according to the evidence or lack thereof i have to agree with the outcome but zimmermans inconsistent statements lead me to believe he is lying about his story, if he lied about trayvon hiding in the bushes and ambushing him then what else is he lying about?

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
There is a fine line between following someone legally, with stalking and/or racial profiling.someone illegally. I personally would be nervous if someone kept following me. I am not saying I would have attacked him either.

I think george zimmerman went asking for trouble by playing cop where he had no authority to do so. It just happened that martin trayvon was a hot head or a bit too paranoid and DID ATTACK george zimmerman.

George wasn't playing cop; he was a resident that took time to be part of a neighborhood watch program, because he cared enough for his neighbors to be concerned, and want to help. He had every legal right to do this, including carrying a gun while doing so. None of that is illegal, or "asking for trouble".

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
There was some racial profiling going on imho! Was it based on irrational hatred of blacks? Probably not.

What Mr, Zimmerman stated in his call was that there was a guy behaving suspiciously, that looked like he might be on something. He wasn't even sure of the race of the person at that time. This is very clear, if you listen to the call.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
George Zimmerman had no business doing what he did. He ended up killing someone because he was outmatched by trayvon martin and had to use his gun. George Zimmerman was lucky that he did not get booked and convicted for manslaughter, which he should have. The prosecutors overshot with 2nd degree murder and the jury felt sorry for george zimmerman. JUST TO TEACH PEOPLE A LESSON NOT TO PLAY COP NEXT TIME! Let the professionals handle it, but then we call them pigs, go figure.

What, exactly, is it that you think he didn't have any business doing? Driving down the street? Reporting a suspicious person? Exiting his car in his neighborhood? Observing the suspicious person, as the dispatcher seemed to indicate he should do? Defend his life, legally and completely within the law? He did what a neighborhood watch person is supposed to do, which is observe and report. Self defense isn't manslaughter. Defending your life when assaulted isn't playing cop. The cops were already called, too, and arrived mere moments after the shot was fired. Had he not fired, the next blow could have been fatal. The police could easily have been too late. The cannot be everywhere all the time, which is one reason we have self defense laws. The best police force in the country can be too late.

Originally posted by caladonea
I am going to repeat what I said earlier in this thread...why?...because I have a need to.

I actually thought the verdict was going to be manslaughter. The jury has found him innocent...and I respect there right to make that decision...but I do not agree with it.

However...I do think that Mr. Zimmerman is at heart a good person...who made a horrible mistake. I think he should not have shot Trayvon; but he did.

I know my opinion is not a popular one; but I just have to be honest about how I feel.

I think Trayvon Martin was a good person too; he was a teenager trying to fit in with is peers; and trying to find his way in life. He was just walking home from the store after he had purchased some snacks; such a simple thing; that turned into such a tragedy.

I really feel there are no winners here.

Martin wasn't just "walking home"; he was checking out houses in the rain. He was also acting under the influence of something. Then, he committed an assault on another person. As for the "snacks", I can't say a lot here, but don't be so sure that was the purpose of those. Recent research leads me to believe the choices support Mr, Zimmerman's claims.

Now, peer pressure might have had some effect on Martin's behavior, but that's not an excuse. It is something that could be addressed, though, as resolving those sorts of behavioral issues could prevent something like this from happening in the future.

george zimmerman was no angel either.

politicalblindspot.org...

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

George wasn't playing cop; he was a resident that took time to be part of a neighborhood watch program, because he cared enough for his neighbors to be concerned, and want to help. He had every legal right to do this, including carrying a gun while doing so. None of that is illegal, or "asking for trouble".

I guess I am simply no fan of any neigbhorhood watch programs. I have learned to respect the right to privacy as long as no crime is being committed. I don't like the 'peeping tom' attitude. Trayvon Martin was not in the process of breaking and entering any home, if he even planned to do such is a mystery.

As for carrying a gun legally, I have no problem with that.

Originally posted by ThePublicEnemyNo1
I am not going to give my opinion about the ruling on George Zimmerman's case. However, I will say that someone needs to look into how Angela Corey is charging defendants. She doesn't seem to have a clear concept of what "Beyond A Reasonable Doubt" means.

Angela Corey's office needs to be investigated for malicious prosecution and she personally should be disbarred from ever practicing law ever again anywhere in the United States IMO. She continues to over charge defendants and has been doing this for years. Angela Corey, is a disgrace to the entire legal system!

Here are some of Corey's cases:

13 yr old Christian Fernandez

Maris sa Alexander, 20 years for firing a warning shot

Ronald Thompson

Two of those cases seem to be more anti-gun than anything else. The other is tragic, but, all considered, I don't think that kid should be walking around free, either.

In any case, Corey definitely shows bias, instead of simply acting on evidence, as she should.

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
george zimmerman was no angel either.

politicalblindspot.org...

None of us are.

But he also isn't a murderer or negligent gun owner. In fact, he'll probably be retrieving his pistol from the police tomorrow.

All the right wingers applaud Zimmerman for killing a black kid in claims of "self defense" but say nothing about the injustice for the black woman convicted of shooting a gun in the air and sentenced to 20 yrs in the same state.

The Zimmerman supporters have shown their true colors. They say the juries are right and their precious justice system is awesome and can do no wrong. Zimmerman not guilty of killing black kid. Black woman guilty of firing a gun in the air and sentenced to 20 yrs...Justice they say. Yeah there is no racism is here.

Self defense is only available to to anyone besides blacks. If your black and attempt to defend yourself, you will be looking at jail time.

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
george zimmerman was no angel either.

politicalblindspot.org...

Yeah all the right wing nutters love to bring up Trayvon Martin's past and texts but as soon as you mention something about George Zimmerman's past they instantly scream that it doesn't matter and it can't be used for self defense.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

George wasn't playing cop; he was a resident that took time to be part of a neighborhood watch program, because he cared enough for his neighbors to be concerned, and want to help. He had every legal right to do this, including carrying a gun while doing so. None of that is illegal, or "asking for trouble".

I guess I am simply no fan of any neigbhorhood watch programs. I have learned to respect the right to privacy as long as no crime has been commited. I don't like the 'peeping tom' attitude.

As for carrying a gun legally, I have no problem with that.

Well, I can understand that, but as long as the person is only watching public areas, I don't really care. We don't have a watch program where I live, but I do try and pay attention to who is around normally, so I would, hopefully, notice if someone that didn't belong was messing around a neighbor's house. I would certainly report anything that seemed off. What we do in a public area doesn't come with a reasonable expectation of privacy. I would rather have a neighbor paying attention, than neighbors pretending to see and hear nothing. When I was a kid, we had the latter. This woman could tell you what color of socks you put on and what you ate for breakfast, but refused to state she saw anything when someone was burglarized. In her case, yes, she was a busybody. Old, unable to do much, and bored, I suspect. Even so, give me alert and concerned any day. We have GOOD cops, and I would still appreciate a concerned neighbor.

Good to hear on the gun issue! Many posted that Zimmerman shouldn't have had one, but even the NW lady stated that it isn't against any law. Sensible debate appreciated, in any case!

Originally posted by lovebeck

Originally posted by jed001
zimmerman never would have gotten out of the car if he did not have a gun.

Amen. He should have stayed in the car, like he was told, and none of this would have happened. It seems like a lot of people on this thread forget that a 17 year old kid was shot, by a grown man. I wonder how they would feel if that was their kid/nephew/cousin/brother? THIS could happen to anyone, really. Well, I mean only if you are a young man, with a certain "look" about you and you live with an over zealous neighborhood watch type of douche bag in your 'hood, who thinks you're up to no good while walking home from the store, in the rain, with your hoodie pulled up. Then you're probably screwed....

How many times does it have to be pointed out that he was never told to stay in his car, before people get it? Over 300 pages in the previous thread, and it was stated clearly there several times. watching the trial testimony from the dispatcher would resolve this misconception for you as well. At this stage, making such a claim indicates either someone utterly uninformed as to the known facts in the case, or someone willfully repeating something that simply isn't true.

reply to post by Onslaught2996

Self defense is only available to to anyone besides blacks. If your black and attempt to defend yourself, you will be looking at jail time.

And we've learned that if you're white (or Hispanic) and legally defend yourself against a black guy you'll be charged with murder and a civil rights violation.

Originally posted by Onslaught2996
All the right wingers applaud Zimmerman for killing a black kid in claims of "self defense" but say nothing about the injustice for the black woman convicted of shooting a gun in the air and sentenced to 20 yrs in the same state.

The Zimmerman supporters have shown their true colors. They say the juries are right and their precious justice system is awesome and can do no wrong. Zimmerman not guilty of killing black kid. Black woman guilty of firing a gun in the air and sentenced to 20 yrs...Justice they say. Yeah there is no racism is here.

Self defense is only available to to anyone besides blacks. If your black and attempt to defend yourself, you will be looking at jail time.

Better check back a page or few. I stated, when that case first came to my attention, that she shouldn't be charged as she was. As far as I am concerned, she should not have to flee her home to be safe from a man that admitted he threatened her. I also defended the right of that elderly black man who shot a couple of guys that broke into his store, where he and his wife also lived. Self defense is legal and right no matter who the person is, or how they look.

In the Zimmerman case, all the evidence points to self defense. Hence, he should have been acquitted, as he was. It has nothing to do with skin color for me. If my own brother had behaved as Martin did, I would say shooting him was just.

reply to post by Onslaught2996

All the right wingers applaud Zimmerman for killing a black kid in claims of "self defense" but say nothing about the injustice for the black woman convicted of shooting a gun in the air and sentenced to 20 yrs in the same state.

And all the left wingers cry bloody murder when a white (or Hispanic) man legally defends himself against a black guy but throw parties when a black guy is acquitted of murdering his white ex-wife and her white boyfriend.

Can we stop the tit for tat now??

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

Turns out that she had a restraining order placed upon her for assault to which she plead no contest.

Boncho has an excellent thread here (closed) because of a prior thead here

Not only that, but she had left the scene and returned with the gun.

Both people in that case had long history of abuses against one another, no winners indeed

Originally posted by jadedANDcynical
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

Turns out that she had a restraining order placed upon her for assault to which she plead no contest.

Boncho has an excellent thread here (closed) because of a prior thread here

Not only that, but she had left the scene and returned with the gun.

Both people in that case had long history of abuses against one another, no winners indeed

Well, that certainly places a different light on things. Appreciate the link! So many cases, we see only part of the story. Which is why I said, based on that one article, she should not be jailed. With the added info, seems she probably should be. It's not exactly self defense if both are violent to each other. Again, thanks for the added information.

Originally posted by Onslaught2996
All the right wingers applaud Zimmerman for killing a black kid in claims of "self defense" but say nothing about the injustice for the black woman convicted of shooting a gun in the air and sentenced to 20 yrs in the same state.

The Zimmerman supporters have shown their true colors. They say the juries are right and their precious justice system is awesome and can do no wrong. Zimmerman not guilty of killing black kid. Black woman guilty of firing a gun in the air and sentenced to 20 yrs...Justice they say. Yeah there is no racism is here.

Self defense is only available to to anyone besides blacks. If your black and attempt to defend yourself, you will be looking at jail time.

This is not the thread to address this particular case, but once again, and as was and is still apparent in the Zimmerman case, people are talking about things without knowing the facts.

She left the room and got a gun. She had the opportunity to flee to safety.

Instead, she got a gun, came back, and fired at him, not in "the air". The bullet holes were in the wall inches from where he stood. Those were not warning shots, those were missed shots, and that was attempted murder. SHE had been arrested previously on domestic abuse.

The two cases do not even come close in circumstance.

It is comparing apples to glaciers.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Onslaught2996

 

Self defense is only available to to anyone besides blacks. If your black and attempt to defend yourself, you will be looking at jail time.

And we've learned that if you're white (or Hispanic) and legally defend yourself against a black guy you'll be charged with murder and a civil rights violation.

We have also learned if you see a black guy walking down the street, don't get out of the car. He might attack you. And if he thought you were following him, it's okay!

Defend yourself, and you might go to prison.

But the biggest takeaway by far is, be wary and stay in your car until the coast is clear, then run like hell, because you may get attacked, and it's okay!

But don't defend yourself. You deserved it. For being white.