Breaking News! George Zimmerman found not guilty.

reply to post by SilentKillah

Did you get in a lot of fights in High School?

Still fight a lot?

reply to post by SilentKillah


She had plead no contest to assaulting him about four months prior to the incident and was under a restraining order, she was not even supposed to be at the house.

See Boncho's excellent posts will all of the facts (if these mater to you) on be subject.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by JuniorDisco

 

First, impolite people (like Trayvon was being when he jumped George) would be culled from the herd. The remainder of the people that would tend towards being impolite might think twice and not punch someone in the head, just because they felt like doing it.

See... here we go again with this "I believe what Zimmerman says even though he KILLED the other party that can tell the story" attitude. How do you KNOW that Martin is soooo impolite??? His HS grades seemed to illude (if those records are in fact real) that he is not truly dedicated to studies, but passing all classes. I would assume that if he's getting B's and C's that he's at least polite to his teachers.

So... he sent some text messages implying that he's a thug. Well... teenagers LIE all the time to LOOK cool to their peers. I've done it. I can't even act like I'm a saint. I've lied and said things like I smoke cigarettes, my mom lets me drink beer, and worse in my teenage years... just in the name of looking cool. I passed high school, went to college, and am doing extremely well in my profession. This impolite person "like Trayvon" had his LIFE taken because some creepy guy followed him.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
I have a question for the Martin supporters, what do you want to see happen?

They can't drag Zimmerman back into the court room,

I hear his parents are getting thousands of death threats.

Why? What purpose does threatening his parents serve?

If innocent people get hurt or killed because people fanned the flames of hatred, will that make you happy? What will it solve, apparently a reporter was beaten for being at the wrong place,

And why do you think this case is still being pushed to the forefront by our government officials?

Have you ever in your life seen the government get involved with such a local issue?

Don't you see what the administration is up to?

Why are people on the net sometimes here jumping with glee and ready to pop a bottle of Crystal over GZ's acquittal and TM's death??? who is pushing this..is it the neo con media like F.O.X empire?? the Gun Lobbyist and manufacturers who want to sell more guns to scared folks both Blacks and Whites?? and laugh all the way to the bank??..if innocent folks get hurt or killed fanning the flames of hatred whose interest does that serve.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by SilentKillah

 

Did you get in a lot of fights in High School?

Still fight a lot?

In an earlier post I stated that I was suspended from HS 4 times for fighting.

I have not been in a fight since my last suspension in Junior year of HS. Well, that's a lie because I faught in a war for this country after graduating college and receiving my commission.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by JuniorDisco

 

First, impolite people (like Trayvon was being when he jumped George) would be culled from the herd.

That's nice. "Culling" people for being impolite. Sounds a bit, I dunno, fascist to me.

The remainder of the people that would tend towards being impolite might think twice and not punch someone in the head, just because they felt like doing it.

But if an armed society is a polite society why aren't they already thinking twice? Why are there so many impolite people still around who need culling? America has had guns for years and yet that politesse seems oddly elusive.

And as I say, in your lovely 'polite' brave new world that the Zimmerman shooting is going to help create, is it not just as likely that people will shot others and claim self defence more often? Because that's another precedent this case creates.

reply to post by SilentKillah


It likely that someone responding with deadly force to a single punch will not be seen as reasonable use of force. If someone is subjected to continued punches then it might be seen as reasonable since the person could believe it was endangering their life.

Not talking about the trial here, just general.

reply to post by JuniorDisco

That's nice. "Culling" people for being impolite. Sounds a bit, I dunno, fascist to me.

However you like it.
You should study the theory of evolution.
The stupid ones tend to be eaten.
The ones that learn slowly or tend not to care.

There have always be incidents where someone has committed a crime and is not guilty dues to lack of evidence. Those cases are much fewer then those where there is evidence and a conviction. More than a few innocent people have been convicted of a crime.

People may think they can get away with killing someone but it is hard to control the environment to the point of no witnesses and evidence. Many a perfect crime plan has turned out to be a failure.

I do not see this trial as the start a killing spree and many getting away with the crime.

Originally posted by SilentKillah

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by JuniorDisco

 

First, impolite people (like Trayvon was being when he jumped George) would be culled from the herd. The remainder of the people that would tend towards being impolite might think twice and not punch someone in the head, just because they felt like doing it.

See... here we go again with this "I believe what Zimmerman says even though he KILLED the other party that can tell the story" attitude. How do you KNOW that Martin is soooo impolite??? His HS grades seemed to illude (if those records are in fact real) that he is not truly dedicated to studies, but passing all classes. I would assume that if he's getting B's and C's that he's at least polite to his teachers.

So... he sent some text messages implying that he's a thug. Well... teenagers LIE all the time to LOOK cool to their peers. I've done it. I can't even act like I'm a saint. I've lied and said things like I smoke cigarettes, my mom lets me drink beer, and worse in my teenage years... just in the name of looking cool. I passed high school, went to college, and am doing extremely well in my profession. This impolite person "like Trayvon" had his LIFE taken because some creepy guy followed him.

Amen well said I don't know what age you are but this is even more prevalent in social media that I didn't have growing up as a kid,there are dozens of sub culture or counter cultures kids belong to today and post very scary pics of themselves on Fb and other social media, I have a friend from my era who was a former skin head now stuck with embarrassing tattoos he can't get rid off because it is expensive not to mentioned painful he can't take his kids to the beach because of fear of ridicule ,but that person he used to be is not the same person he is today as a man approaching middle age.

reply to post by SilentKillah

The point that I'm making is just as simple as this... getting punched in the face is not a case for shooting someone... especially after you've followed them and instigated the agitated behavior that caused the person to punch you.

Why do you keep ignoring the evidence?

TM reached for GZ's gun and said, “You’re gonna die tonight.” If we believe that testimony (which the jury obviously did) then do you consider that justification for deadly force? Is that a credible threat??

The juror that spoke out yesterday said there was NO DOUBT in her mind that GZ feared for his life. She heard the evidence!

the opinion on this case really is coming down racial lines. i would argue depending on where you live and your racial background has a lot to do with where your opinion lies. in chicago the consensus seems to be pro trayvon, but amongst my fb friends it seems to be 80 percent whites pro zimmerman to 20 percent of whites being pro trayvon. it seems there are ugly race baiting comments coming from both sides. i am also seeing a lot of the race card coming out after the acquittal from both sides. i have to say that both tray and zim showed some kind of racist tendencies and neither were angels. today i saw a post comparing marley lion case to trayvon martin case. these people will grasp at anything to try and show some kind of racial bias in the media. i am not going to go into it but the cases are not similar at all except that it is a tragedy that a young man lost his life. thecurrentblog.wordpress.com...

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum


That is Untrue.

Now people will be more likely to kill when they are being robbed in daylight, or being raped in an alleyway, or being car jacked or a whole list of other things.

This has been enough to educate the populous. It has set a new precedent .. . .

Do Not take S[Snip]T off of a Thug. "Stand your ground".

If this would happen more often we might see a decline in the crime rate.

I suspect you do now live in a country where people are more likely to kill if they think they are being robbed or carjacked. Not sure if that's a good thing.

What's definitely true is that you now live in a country where it's prudent to kill the counterparty in any altercation because you will probably get off on self defence. So if someone attacks you and tries to rob you chances are that if you fight back they will kill you and get away with it.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by JuniorDisco

 

That's nice. "Culling" people for being impolite. Sounds a bit, I dunno, fascist to me.

However you like it.
You should study the theory of evolution.
The stupid ones tend to be eaten.
The ones that learn slowly or tend not to care.

Okay, so you are a fascist. Guess you can't get too annoyed about your broken economy or the Wall Street guys who made it that way while they got rich? They're just the biggest cats in the jungle and you're there to be eaten.

reply to post by jadedANDcynical


Ok... I've read Boncho's post as you recommended. Let's get one obvious point out that Boncho quoted, but either skimmed over, or just failed to acknowledge:

Boncho says that the following "is the most important part of the case".

The fact that Alexander returned after retrieving her gun which is just the first sign of her intent that day.

in response to the following quote from the article.

Marissa Alexander, 31, testified that Rico Gray physically assaulted her on August 1, 2010, before she fled to the garage, and, unable to exit through the malfunctioning automatic door opener, returned to the kitchen with her gun. She fired a shot over Gray’s head, causing a bullet to lodge in the ceiling.

Source

Now, look at that quote again with the VERY important bold text.

Marissa Alexander, 31, testified that Rico Gray physically assaulted her on August 1, 2010, before she fled to the garage, and, unable to exit through the malfunctioning automatic door opener, returned to the kitchen with her gun. She fired a shot over Gray’s head, causing a bullet to lodge in the ceiling.

Source

So... she in fact could not leave the scene as the garage door wouldn't open (even though she shouldn't have to under Florida's stand your ground law). What's she to do now... just sit in the garage for eternity? Or go back inside. But... she's scared because the guy held her hostage and tried to choke her... better grab that gun. I'll bet that's what many of you CCW and open gun carriers would do if it were in the garage and a burglar were in your house.

More source text:

“Because she was not fleeing from an abuser,” Corey told theGrio in answer to why Florida’s Stand Your Ground law was not applied in Alexander’s case, even though Florida’s Supreme Court has ruled in the past that a woman being abused in her own home by her husband has no duty to flee.“

A judge heard all the facts and evidence and said that this was not a case of ‘Stand Your Ground,’ Corey said. “You have to compare what [Marissa Alexander] said to what the victims said.

There were two young children there as well. None of the physical evidence corroborates her story. There was the 911 call … and you can clearly hear the distress in Rico Gray’s voice. They had a verbal argument [in which] he said ‘I’m outta here,’ and she said, ‘I’ve got something for you.’”

Wait a minute... she wasn't fleeing but somehow magically realized that she could NOT flee due to a malfunctioning garage door? I could have sworn that's what she said. YEP... right there in bold text... she said "unable to exit through the malfunctioning automatic door opener"!

Above that, and in line with the OP... Zimmerman wasn't fleeing either. In fact he PURSUED Martin!

Lastly... I find zero evidence that either of them had restraining orders on one another on THAT particular day. I find that they had restraining orders on one another at different times. In fact:

Gray was arrested in 2006 and in 2009. In 2006, charges were dropped, and in 2009, he got probation. After the 2009 arrest, Alexander got a restraining order against him. He claims he had a restraining order against her at the time of the 2010 altercation, but Duval County Clerk records only list one from March 2011, well after it happened.

Source

Bold text again... no restraining order was on record during that altercation.

reply to post by JuniorDisco

But if an armed society is a polite society why aren't they already thinking twice?

They are.
More states have passed concealed carry laws that make sense and crime rates are down.

Originally posted by roadgravel
There have always be incidents where someone has committed a crime and is not guilty dues to lack of evidence. Those cases are much fewer then those where there is evidence and a conviction. More than a few innocent people have been convicted of a crime.

People may think they can get away with killing someone but it is hard to control the environment to the point of no witnesses and evidence. Many a perfect crime plan has turned out to be a failure.

I do not see this trial as the start a killing spree and many getting away with the crime.

I'm not saying you're going to see a wave of murders off the back of it. But anyone in a situation where they think they might be able to claim self defence by killing the counterparty now has a serious incentive to do so.

Add to this that in Florida (and elsewhere) the penalties for pointing or firing a gun are so high that it could be a choice between getting away with murder or getting ten years for not pulling the trigger. It's not a situation I'd want to live in.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by SilentKillah

 

The point that I'm making is just as simple as this... getting punched in the face is not a case for shooting someone... especially after you've followed them and instigated the agitated behavior that caused the person to punch you.

Why do you keep ignoring the evidence?

TM reached for GZ's gun and said, “You’re gonna die tonight.” If we believe that testimony (which the jury obviously did) then do you consider that justification for deadly force? Is that a credible threat??

The juror that spoke out yesterday said there was NO DOUBT in her mind that GZ feared for his life. She heard the evidence!

edit on 16-7-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)

In Judge Judy's voice... "THAT'S HEARSAY!". Judge Judy's voice again... "I DON'T BELIVE YOU SIR".

It's sad that you believe this "evidence" that wouldn't even hold up in small claims court! It's sadder that you're using this "evidence" as justification to a tennager's death while a killer walks!

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by JuniorDisco

 

But if an armed society is a polite society why aren't they already thinking twice?

They are.
More states have passed concealed carry laws that make sense and crime rates are down.

Odd then that you have so many 'impolite' people still. By your own admission. Odd that Trayvon was so 'impolite' to George, or that several tens of thousands of people had to be shot last year - presumably they were being impolite.

It just seems that your society is very far from the polite society that gun owners claim happens when a culture is armed. Still, any day now I guess. Especially if you kill enough people for smoking marijuana and being "f-king punks".

reply to post by JuniorDisco


And who do you have to thank for that hmmmmm? The scumbags who put this case all over the news to spread racial strife maybe? The idiots that spread half truths and outright lies on the airwaves?