The Zimmerman Trial

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

Originally posted by FlyersFan
None of that nonsense has anything to do with answering the question .. did Martin jump Zimmerman or did Zimmerman jump Martin? No one knows.

As we don't really know if any "jumping" occurred, let's ask instead who of the 2 was more likely to want to get into the other person's space?

You have no clue .. none of us do .. as to 'who is more likely to get into the other persons space'.

The images of both Martin and Zimmerman have been convoluted by the media.
And who we may think 'is more likely' isn't the same as FACT.
FACT is the only thing that matters when deciding if someone is guilty of murder ...
not opinion based on false information and personal bias.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

Originally posted by FlyersFan
None of that nonsense has anything to do with answering the question .. did Martin jump Zimmerman or did Zimmerman jump Martin? No one knows.

As we don't really know if any "jumping" occurred, let's ask instead who of the 2 was more likely to want to get into the other person's space?

Would it be the thc-imbibing, troubled teen, chatting to his g/f as he heads back home from the store, who doesn't know who the badasses to avoid in the neighbourhood are, or would it be the guy who is on his own turf, is very interested in the activities, or lack of, of strangers, does a bit of mma training, and carries a gun, just in case?

".... heads back home"? This whole incident started because TM didn't know where he was, only that his father lived somewhere in that neighborhood. He wasn't sure which house it was so he was peeking in different house windows to see if it was his father's house. His own mother had kicked him out of her house TM was living in another neighborhood. So no, TM wasn't "heading home".

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
Wouldn't you prefer to hear exactly what the closest witness to them being on the floor together says under close questioning, before you buy that story?

... says the person who has already made up his mind that Martin was a poor innocent lil' teen who couldn't possibly have done anything wrong that evening. Wouldn't YOU prefer to hear exactly what happened that night as the evidence presents itself in a court of law?? No? Didn't think so ....

I haven't made up my mind about any such thing. I have tried imagining him as a violent thug, but it doesn't fit the evidence I've seen thus far. Imagining George as a frustrated, scheming cop wannabe who wanted to be seen as an effective NW coordinator, is far easier to picture.

Originally posted by UnBreakable

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

Originally posted by FlyersFan
None of that nonsense has anything to do with answering the question .. did Martin jump Zimmerman or did Zimmerman jump Martin? No one knows.

As we don't really know if any "jumping" occurred, let's ask instead who of the 2 was more likely to want to get into the other person's space?

Would it be the thc-imbibing, troubled teen, chatting to his g/f as he heads back home from the store, who doesn't know who the badasses to avoid in the neighbourhood are, or would it be the guy who is on his own turf, is very interested in the activities, or lack of, of strangers, does a bit of mma training, and carries a gun, just in case?

".... heads back home"? This whole incident started because TM didn't know where he was, only that his father lived somewhere in that neighborhood. He wasn't sure which house it was so he was peeking in different house windows to see if it was his father's house. His own mother had kicked him out of her house TM was living in another neighborhood. So no, TM wasn't "heading home".

It was his home for the time he was staying there. Where are you getting this information from that he was staring in windows to see if it was his father's house?

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

Originally posted by UnBreakable

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

Originally posted by FlyersFan
None of that nonsense has anything to do with answering the question .. did Martin jump Zimmerman or did Zimmerman jump Martin? No one knows.

As we don't really know if any "jumping" occurred, let's ask instead who of the 2 was more likely to want to get into the other person's space?

Would it be the thc-imbibing, troubled teen, chatting to his g/f as he heads back home from the store, who doesn't know who the badasses to avoid in the neighbourhood are, or would it be the guy who is on his own turf, is very interested in the activities, or lack of, of strangers, does a bit of mma training, and carries a gun, just in case?

".... heads back home"? This whole incident started because TM didn't know where he was, only that his father lived somewhere in that neighborhood. He wasn't sure which house it was so he was peeking in different house windows to see if it was his father's house. His own mother had kicked him out of her house TM was living in another neighborhood. So no, TM wasn't "heading home".

It was his home for the time he was staying there. Where are you getting this information from that he was staring in windows to see if it was his father's house?

".............he was walking slowly and peering into windows in the gated community in a town near Orlando".

www.bet.com...

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

Originally posted by FlyersFan
None of that nonsense has anything to do with answering the question .. did Martin jump Zimmerman or did Zimmerman jump Martin? No one knows.

As we don't really know if any "jumping" occurred, let's ask instead who of the 2 was more likely to want to get into the other person's space?

You have no clue .. none of us do .. as to 'who is more likely to get into the other persons space'.

Wouldn't that be entirely dependent on the quality of the available information? If it was established knowledge that George had a hair-trigger temper and was prone to making hasty decisions, whereas Trayvon was the mildest-mannered kid in his school, would you still feel it was impossible to side with either one because nobody saw exactly what happened that night?

Originally posted by FlyersFan
The images of both Martin and Zimmerman have been convoluted by the media.
And who we may think 'is more likely' isn't the same as FACT.
FACT is the only thing that matters when deciding if someone is guilty of murder ...
not opinion based on false information and personal bias.

As I've said before, I don't need the media to chew up information and feed it to me, I can arrive at conclusions on my own.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


Every opinion about this case you have came from the media. You would have no idea this happened if it were not for the media.
You simply have no idea what your talking about.

Originally posted by UnBreakable

".............he was walking slowly and peering into windows in the gated community in a town near Orlando".

www.bet.com...

Says the guy who shot him. It's almost as far away as can be imagined from being an established fact.

Originally posted by TeflonBear
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

Every opinion about this case you have came from the media. You would have no idea this happened if it were not for the media.
You simply have no idea what your talking about.

You can be as dismissive as you want, but it doesn't make you right. I'm quite pleased with my msm BS-detecting abilities, so my confidence in being able to separate the wheat from the chaff isn't going to be dented by your opinion.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
I haven't made up my mind about any such thing.

if you say so. It sure looks like you've made up your mind to me. But whatever ...

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
Wouldn't that be entirely dependent on the quality of the available information?

That's just it .. the 'quality' of the information that we have been given is poor. It's full of bias and selective editing and personal interjections. So again .. no we can't go by 'who is more likely to jump the other'. My feeling based on the information is that Martin would be more likely to jump Zimmerman. And obviously your feeling based on the information is that Zimmerman would be more likely to jump Martin. We have to wait to hear the facts .. unadulterated facts ... that will come out in the trial. That's all that matters when someone's life is on the line with a Murder charge.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
I haven't made up my mind about any such thing.

if you say so. It sure looks like you've made up your mind to me. But whatever ...

Regarding George's guilt, I'm pretty confident, yes, but not regarding what you said about TM.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
Wouldn't that be entirely dependent on the quality of the available information?

That's just it .. the 'quality' of the information that we have been given is poor. It's full of bias and selective editing and personal interjections. So again .. no we can't go by 'who is more likely to jump the other'. My feeling based on the information is that Martin would be more likely to jump Zimmerman. And obviously your feeling based on the information is that Zimmerman would be more likely to jump Martin. We have to wait to hear the facts .. unadulterated facts ... that will come out in the trial. That's all that matters when someone's life is on the line with a Murder charge.

You seem to be suggesting that I started out biased and have focused only on the evidence that fits my supposed predisposition, when all I've done is interpreted the available info through the filters of my own experience and decided that Zimmerman's story doesn't pass the smell test. Ymmv.

reply to post by luciddream


1. I don't support anyone. I find the whole circus act around this ridiculous.

2. Many teenage boys get shot dead every day, where is the outrage over that? Or doesn't it matter because they're gang members killing each other?

3. The pictures on his phone and Facebook of the suspicious plants/smoke and of him trying to project the image of some gangster/thug aren't 3 yrs old. But the picture being used by the media to portray him as some innocent little kid is old.

But whatever, you're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. My interest in this case is exhausted. I'll see you around the boards.

reply to post by marbles87

Just police the asked him to stop doesn't mean it was unlawful for him to pursue TM.

No, but it does shoot his "Stand Your Ground" defense all full of holes...and that's why he's going to get at least manslaughter, if not a murder conviction.

If he gets manslaughter or murder, I don't think we'll see any civil unrest. If he gets off scott free though, we'll see a little, but nothing like the Rodney King verdict. (plus, the Police will prep for any response, this time, having learned the lesson last time).

reply to post by Gazrok

If he gets off scott free though, we'll see a little, but nothing like the Rodney King verdict. (plus, the Police will prep for any response, this time, having learned the lesson last time).

You act as if the police are in place to prevent or intercede in mass rioting/violence within the city...on the contrary, as far as the police/National Guard/other authorities, are concerned, they have ZERO PROBLEM with allowing the fine citizens within metro areas to shoot/loot/kill/maim/burn down wholesale parts of the city on a regular basis...it allows for economic regrowth and is cheaper than calling in operating engineers to bulldoze or perform other forms of demolition.

[url=List of Riots

Pick your own...I find it interesting they list Kent State as riot...seems odd to me they were put in place and actually shot and killed four innocent college kids...but were not in place and did not shoot and kill the thugs assaulting an innocent Reginald Denny...

reply to post by Gazrok


Actually if he losses in court they will immediately file for a secound trial under the stand your ground law that is what has been said on the radio here. To be clear the dispatcher said we don't need you doing that. They did not give him a order and going by what has been presented at that point he turned around and was going back to his vehicle. So stand your ground applies but that would be a secondary defense.


I haven't followed any MSM on this but have watched and read what has been released to the public from the police and lawyers I have also been where this happened so I know the area.

The Most Ridiculous Things Potential Jurors Said During George Zimmerman's Trial This Week

Juror E81, The Hard-Headed One:

This juror was all types of mad. She told State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda that she had made up her mind, and was sticking to it! Here are some of the shocking statements she made about Trayvon.

"I believe George Zimmerman is innocent. My opinion is pretty firm." - On George Zimmerman's claim of self defense. "It seems to me that he's just looking for a reason to fight and he's confronted by someone whose trying to protect neighborhood..." - On Trayvon's attitude.

She also believed he had drugs in his system when he was shot and killed. "I know that he was training to be a street fighter...he was going down the wrong path." - On what she knew about Trayvon. She also mentioned that his father was not in the picture (which we all know is not true).

BONUS: She also told the court that she "definitely" believes in the Second Amendment and feels safe knowing people legally carry firearms. On to the next...

It's pretty scary that people would already have their minds "made up", before facts were even presented.

Juror G66, The Hungry One:

Finally, a juror that actually watches the news! But this juror, described as a white female in her 50s or 60s, wasn't too concerned about the case because her stomach was growling.

"I felt that the protests were disruptive, I couldn't go downtown to eat." - On how much "trouble" the protest following Trayvon's murder caused.

#NEXT!

Juror G47, The Unconcerned Bro:

Described as a white male in his 20s, this juror had a reason for not watching Zimmerman coverage.

"My friends don't talk about the local news if it doesn't affect us...A tsunami in Japan or earthquake in India would potentially impact my life more than this case." - On why he didn't keep up with the case. Read more: globalgrind.com...

Seems like this guy has his head on right. I'm sure he'll be of no use to Zimmerman.

Add:Not much to grin about, George! You killed someone!!!

Originally posted by WonderBoi
It's pretty scary that people would already have their minds "made up", before facts were even presented.

People both pro-zimmerman and pro-martin showed up for jury duty with their agendas in tact. And it's not surprising .... look at the people here who have made up their minds and we haven't gotten all the facts yet.

The scariest part is that Eric Holder said he was going to supervise this case. I've considered if
He will "release the kraken" of civil unrest if all the scandals get too close to him or Obama

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by Gazrok

 

Actually if he losses in court they will immediately file for a secound trial under the stand your ground law that is what has been said on the radio here. To be clear the dispatcher said we don't need you doing that. They did not give him a order and going by what has been presented at that point he turned around and was going back to his vehicle.

The dispatcher said to George "We(meaning the police, I'd have assumed) don't need you to do that" 10 seconds after he had shut his vehicle door. If he'd headed back to his vehicle at that point, he wouldn't be in the mess he is now.

Originally posted by watchitburn
reply to post by luciddream

 

Or doesn't it matter because they're gang members killing each other?

As a EMT i believe in letting gang members shoot at each others as long as they don't endanger others.

We did not roll on gang shooting till after the cops had secured the area and bystanders had first priority over wounded gang members.

cold, h**l yes.