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Police respond to 'serious incident' in Woolwich

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posted on May, 23 2013 @ 05:58 AM
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Can I just ask some folks... When your team goes over to another country and attacks them, does that make tham "extremists" and "terrorists"? Do you find it sickening? Do you think that the victim country should throw out all of the attackers?

Basically I am asking if you are a hypocrite or not?

Don't you think we should shout louder about the things WE do? Don't you think the soldiers have a responsibility to say NO, I will not attack another country? Don't you think WE have a responsibility to say NO, I will not pay for you to attack another country?

I have the upmost respect for anyone that wants to defend people but NOT for people that want to attack!

It is unbelievable to me that we learn absolutely NOTHING from history! Just war after war after massacre (some wars can't actually be called a wars, they are just a massacre)

I am white, I am non religious, I live in the UK... I just wish we could live in peace! Peace for everyone (that means EVERYONE)! I see the total utter uproar about this one soldier but I see the devastation that we have caused! People in other countries have children on the roads with the brains everywhere! I would post pictures if you like, it is not a joke, it is not a conspiracy, it is some peoples reality and it has to stop!!!! WE have to stop it and bring the guilty parties to justice!!!!

Would you not want justice if it were YOUR children or mother or sister or friend?

WE need to deal with these questions! WE need to take a look in the mirror. WE need to take some responsibility else nothing will change and we will never see peace!

So the question is, do YOU want peace or not?




posted on May, 23 2013 @ 05:58 AM
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Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Let me get this right. Giving someone a British citizenship doesn't make them a British citizen?



Why are you being so childish? I understood him completely, maybe because i myself am an immigrant.
People who are born somewhere, then move to another country and get citizenship - they are still from wherever they were born. In many cases (mine too) the second generation, our children are also socially and culturally connected to the parent land of origin even though those children were born and raised in (this case) England.

That means visiting family, learning the language of your parents, eating and preparing food specifically from that area, listening to music they listen to and in case of radical Muslims - they are taught many more things, regarding religion, family, work, rules of conduct etc.

So just because i have German citizenship, i am not German nor will i ever become German when i am Mediterranean and my children are part Med.also.


edit on 23-5-2013 by Exitt because: .



posted on May, 23 2013 @ 06:00 AM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Sooo by your logic, then Chechens must be nearly identical to Russians...and maybe the Turks are too...
edit on 23-5-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)


When you remove all the self-applied labels and those that have been assigned by people with an agenda, humans are humans wherever they may be.


I was just trying to see if your logic worked for someone other than British/Irish. Did you think so? Or do you identify with Chechens as much as you identify with people in Astrakhan? I was just wondering you know with that whole war thing going.
edit on 23-5-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)


Why, is the situation between Chechnya and Russia remarkably similar to what was occurring during The Troubles?



posted on May, 23 2013 @ 06:07 AM
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Originally posted by phyllida
reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
 


I think that is the point, we have all become far to scared of saying anything that even slightly hints at offence. No-one has broad shoulders anymore, no-one is able to take it on the chin and everyone it seems has the right to be righteously indignant...usually on behalf of someone else!

We all have the intelligence to know when someone is being purposefully insulting or offensive but yet we appear now to have become hyper vigilant for people to say something that can be jumped on or reported with screams of racist bigot and the like. Does this not smack of big brother to an extent? We have white people crying offence and being indignant on behalf of other races....why? I'm sure if a black jew native american or other was offended they are more than capable of stating their case and being offended themselves!

We have set ourselves up as the pc police and that was to my way of thinking the exact plan of TPTB


It might be comforting to think that everyone is agreement with you but too scared of causing offence so don't say anything, the reality is probably more along the lines that most don't actually agree with you.

This isn't the plan of TPTB, TPTB aren't promoting these values, they've succumbed to them! British people are by in large liberal and tolerant, as a result the bigots in TPTB have had to get in line, lest they won't be elected or accepted by the majority of voting Britons.

People are speaking clearly and openly. I've had conversations with lots of people, heard lots of perspectives, nobody is biting their tongue... politicians on tv, maybe.



posted on May, 23 2013 @ 06:10 AM
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Originally posted by Exitt

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Let me get this right. Giving someone a British citizenship doesn't make them a British citizen?



Why are you being so childish? I understood him completely, maybe because i myself am an immigrant.
People who are born somewhere, then move to another country and get citizenship - they are still from wherever they were born. In many cases (mine too) the second generation, our children are also socially and culturally connected to the parent land of origin even though those children were born and raised in (this case) England.

That means visiting family, learning the language of your parents, eating and preparing food specifically from that area, listening to music they listen to and in case of radical Muslims - they are taught many more things, regarding religion, family, work, rules of conduct etc.

So just because i have German citizenship, i am not German nor will i ever become German when i am Mediterranean and my children are part Med.also.


edit on 23-5-2013 by Exitt because: .


That's all well and good but you're wrong, aren't you. Having British citizenship makes you a British citizen. This isn't a difficult concept.

I don't know what you're trying to argue but it's not citizenship.



posted on May, 23 2013 @ 06:13 AM
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I think people can have dual citizenship and often do. Like they buy homes in their country of origin and their " host" country. Sometimes its this way.

So id gather their loyalities go both ways. But in this guys case and probably many who cannot adapt or simply wont they remain most loyal to only their country of origin.
edit on 23-5-2013 by FreedomEntered because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2013 @ 06:16 AM
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Originally posted by g146541
[But on American threads where some foreigners butt in with their 2 cents and claim how serene their land is and how comfortable their chains are....
I guess I just had to pop in to say, "see I told you so!"




To compare this isolated incident to the massacres that go on in the U.S is really scraping the barrel for the for and against arguements for an armed society, don't you think? And well done for using this slaughter for the chance for you to say ''I told you so'', bet you feel so smug and warm inside now.



posted on May, 23 2013 @ 06:18 AM
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Originally posted by GrandStrategy

That's all well and good but you're wrong, aren't you. Having British citizenship makes you a British citizen. This isn't a difficult concept.

I don't know what you're trying to argue but it's not citizenship.


I was talking about the point made in the post you replied to. Nobody said the attacker is not a citizen of England - which he clearly is, maybe even born British - but he is Nigerian and not Briton. This too is not a difficult concept.



posted on May, 23 2013 @ 06:21 AM
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reply to post by Exitt
 


No having been born in the UK, He is African-British .

And a muslim.



posted on May, 23 2013 @ 06:22 AM
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reply to post by mr-lizard
 


Other people, had they been armed WOULD OF STOPPED THIS HAPPENING!

How many times must it be rammed into your thick skulls that the only thing that stops a bad guy with a weapon IS A GOOD GUY WITH A WEAPON!

People should be allowed to be armed with at the very least a non-lethal deterrant like pepper spray or rubber trauma pistol etc.



posted on May, 23 2013 @ 06:24 AM
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Originally posted by WatchRider
reply to post by mr-lizard
 


Other people, had they been armed WOULD OF STOPPED THIS HAPPENING!


How? Does carrying a firearm also enable you to psychically detect the intentions of violent criminals?



posted on May, 23 2013 @ 06:24 AM
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Originally posted by Sankari
Here's a tip: check Snopes before forwarding stupid emails. Better still, check the facts yourself and you won't even need to check Snopes.
DON'T JUST BELIEVE ANY OLD THING YOU READ ON THE INTERNET. DON'T BE A SHEEP.


This really stands out, as I have seen the morning rounds of jackassery on facebook. People and pages posting and sharing pictures of the wrong soldier. I know you were talking about something different Sankari, but those are damn fine guidelines for almost any occasion! Props!



posted on May, 23 2013 @ 06:27 AM
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Originally posted by mee32
Can I just ask some folks... When your team goes over to another country and attacks them, does that make tham "extremists" and "terrorists"? Do you find it sickening? Do you think that the victim country should throw out all of the attackers?

Basically I am asking if you are a hypocrite or not?


Right lets see lets all pull back then, so when some third world country has a disaster say flood, earthquake or famine etc we don't give any assistance the UK gives a lot for efforts to help in those situations both from official sources and from the public.

Would you rather see the Taliban, shooting women because they want an education and keeping there country effectively in the dark ages or allowing 50 year old men to marry an 8 your old girl and kill her(another thread on here)


So the easiest way would be not to get involved in either situation every one fends for themselves I would like to see the outcome of that



posted on May, 23 2013 @ 06:28 AM
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I was curious to see the ammount of wars around the globe since I have been alive... So I serached "list of wars by year" and got this...

List of wars

It makes for some sad reading! What the hell are we doing to ourselves and our brothers and sisters! We are ALL humans! We are ALL one big family that for some reason constantly wants to destroy each other! We need to get to the root cause of this! I have my opinion on what that root cause is! But WE need to discuss it!

I am told I am just a tree hunging hippy (even though I am just me, no dreadlocks or brightly coloured clothes, no bandaners etc)! I mean even if I were what the hell is so bad about that? I don't want death and destruction around the globe so that makes me a weirdo or a bad guy?

People... Let us start to come up with some solutions to our major problems! Let us find a way to put the damn guns down and TALK!

You might feel like you can do nothing, and you may be right BUT WE CAN!!! Together, WE can stop this!!!

Do I think the world will ever be perfect? No, of course not, but WE can make it soooo much better! For EVERYONE!

So what should be our first step? Anyone have any suggestions? Does anyone actually want to do something?



posted on May, 23 2013 @ 06:28 AM
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Just seen this on Yahoo, could be related?

news.yahoo.com...



posted on May, 23 2013 @ 06:29 AM
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Originally posted by Exitt
but he is Nigerian and not Briton. This too is not a difficult concept.


Define "Briton" for me please.

You know, the UK is comprised of people who migrated here from all over Europe, and those Europeans got there from other regions too, crossing land mass for centuries.

There is no such thing as a Briton, you just pick a moment in time and define that as a Briton - they all came here from somewhere else or are a creation of interracial breeding across the centuries since then.

Once again, you're presenting a simplistic way of looking at "nationality" and one that has been proven to be completely irrelevant.



posted on May, 23 2013 @ 06:29 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on May, 23 2013 @ 06:29 AM
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Originally posted by WatchRider
reply to post by mr-lizard
 


Other people, had they been armed WOULD OF STOPPED THIS HAPPENING!

How many times must it be rammed into your thick skulls that the only thing that stops a bad guy with a weapon IS A GOOD GUY WITH A WEAPON!

People should be allowed to be armed with at the very least a non-lethal deterrant like pepper spray or rubber trauma pistol etc.



Bullcrap, for so many reasons. Can you not get it through to your thick skull that we don't want an armed society? We don't want mass shootings, we don't want our children shot at school ect ect ect.

Though I agree a certain level of non-lethal protection should be available, nothing more than the likes of pepper spray though.



posted on May, 23 2013 @ 06:31 AM
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I think it's fair to say that anyone who uses a public beheading of a random soldier to illustrate their point probably has reached a level of disenfrachisement where citizenship bears no significance to them.

I just cant see the point of looking for logic derived from sensible use of social groups such as religion or citizenship in crazy peoples actions.

Crazies come in all shapes and sizes and they have blighted humanity for ever and you cant get rid of them.

Perhaps because we have a society where automatic reverence is given to "magic man" superhero religous fantasies (sell all religions authored by Man), we actually promote these beliefs thorugh our credence.

If we were a bit more pragmatic and treated everyone who believes in magic men with beards with the same suspicion as someone who sees Bigfoot or a UFO for e.g ,it might help to put some sort of perspective as to just how bat guano crazy they have actually become.


edit on 23-5-2013 by Jukiodone because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2013 @ 06:31 AM
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Originally posted by FreedomEntered
reply to post by Exitt
 


No having been born in the UK, He is African-British .

And a muslim.


I think both of you are from USA and you don't understand Europe rules


We 'categorize' people according to ethnicity - race - citizenship/nationality and descent. We have no African-British people nor passports where it says so. So let's say someone from Sweden moved to Italy and lives there already for 20 years. He got Italian citizenship (nationality) and passport but he stays ethnic Sweed, blond/blue eyes. His kids are born in Italy but they are also blond Swedish kids. It doesn't matter what citizenship they have and sometimes we can even have 2 citizenship's.



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