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Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by dragonridr
More textbook regurgitation, though I would award you a star for effort.
However, do comprehend the realities of the situation that fateful day. It was the terrorists whom set up the scenario, and NOT the guards who did but could only REACT to the situation.
Right now, upon 20/20 Hindsight vision, we can play out theories easily, so easily, but AT THE TIME, the situation was far different - tense and volatile, made worse with that stupid inflammatory video that roused up huge anger with all muslims.
Just be glad the military was there and made the right decision, and saved many more lives than Hicks would have, if he was in command as he would have launched a new NATO - Libyan war, or the republicans would have even today if they were in command, judging by their armchair general tactics.
Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by NavyDoc
So you think you know military tactics well? Please, spare me your armchair general theories.
There were 100+ WELL ARMED and battle hardened terrorists with even rpgs and MG mounted trucks, within a built up area, not a jungle, and in their own terrritory, mixed with civilians.
Under conventional military engagements, the ratio to win a battle is based upon 3 to 1 odds, in case you had comfortably dozed off on that armchair and missed part of the lecture.
Thus, to overcome the terrorists, it will take NOT that pathetic spec ops small team, BUT a BATTALION of marines to do battle with the terrorists.
And WORSE, NO ONE knew how many of those terrorists could have roused up during those confusing moments using nationalistic lies, to get even the libyan rebels to fight the foreign invaders, when they ASKED FOR NO troops on the ground, NOR NATO agreed to use troops on the ground.
If you are so smart, YOU make that call and send in a NATO marine division to save those 2 men, and later, ANSWER to the parents of those NATO battalion of soldiers whom will be most certainly slaughtered if they stepped into Benghazi, the stronghold of the rebellion with the most armed and battle hardened troops around.
Chill out please. There was nothing possible that could have been done by the military authorities there. International law required them to have only a minimal footprint on Libyan soil. There was a limit to how many security staff WH can send, and even though Italy is nearby, nothing could have prevented the death of the other 2 men as the distance was vast and targets TOTALLY unknown, unless they were prepared to just bomb and slaughter the crap out Benghazi in blind vengeful rage.
Most foreign service personnel DO know the score, and do take great risks, more so on troubled areas. That is why congressmen from democrats and republican would never volunteer and would rebel even if they were assigned for fact finding mission in afghanistan, but will clamour with drool over their faces if they were requested to go to Europe to determine the complexity of economics there Those in Libya deserved our respect, but not our stupidity or divisions of each other for political gain such as you and the republican party had done.
So please, enough with you and your kind's armchair generals urban legends and total BS allegations and fantasies. The nation has more critical issues to deal with, such as the economy, than to answer every armchair generals' fairy tales.
But rest assured, justice will be served for any that dares shed innocent american blood, president or cleaner, even through time and space, as America had proven when it went into Afghanistan after 911 to flush out the terrorists even with the belligerant Taliban in power, and with Osama executed finally for his atrocious slaughter of 3000 innocent humans on american soil. So too will such fate awaits the killers of the great man Chris Stevens and his protection detail. This, the President, WH, democrats and the military had promised and will fulfill, as they had done before.edit on 19-5-2013 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by 2ndthought
I don't see this as a partisan issue. I see this as an issue that could very well affect every single one of us. Some just refuse to consider that their dear leader would do anything against the citizens of this country. It's my contention that under all the layers, he doesn't give one small damn about us.
Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by NavyDoc
Just re-read your own post. Do you see your own ARROGANCE shinning through? So what if you claimed to be a vet or from the Uni, using an anonymous nick to prove your own resume? How more stupid do you wish to prove yourself to be?
There is nothing that is worth in reply to your continued stupidity over military matters. 60s' Saigon consulate is not today's Benghazi, or do you wish me to link how rambo type fools had been strung up by a superior force throughout the course of human history?
There are vets, and there are vets. Some go through a soldier's career through the narrowed gunsight of one's rifle, while others do try to expand upon the bigger picture of conflicts from all angles.
And judging by the manner of your post, it is easy to see where you came from, if indeed you had ever served in the army, let alone spec ops or hold command.
WIth that, I leave you to your armchair delusions, and so too may the republicans and their supporters. The american economy needs help, and not time spent in Congress for Hollywood feel good style armchair delusions based upon 20/20 vision Benghazi hindsighted accusations.
Originally posted by dragonridr
1. I'm not going to vouch for his credentials he does make one valid point however. A small number of trained soldiers can hold off an overwelming force ifrom a defensive position its happened over and over in history.
2. We disagree on the point of trying to get troops to the area bottom line is logistics made that impossible. Now why there wasn't more security there that is a valid point someone droped the ball.
Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
1. Not true. The 'over and over again' only happens in Hollywood, and in the real world, only very small amount of conflicts called either luck or miracle such events happened. It isn't an everyday occurence or there would have been no need for funding of standing armies. Many more sought to avoid such battles or surrender.
Let's be honest. Remember Mogadishu. The small team of spec ops could not even hold off scrawny savages and had their bodies dragged across streets. Not the spec ops fault as they were taken by surprise and overwhelmed by the many, and suffered the consequences.
Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by 2ndthought
Why the turnaround from the deadly serious charge of calling me a terrorist then, but when I challenge you to call DHS, your cowardly backtracking to labelling me instead as a 'verbal terrorist', -whatever BS that means.
So if I disagree with your views with facts and logic, I am to be labelled a terrorist, and an attempt to scare others that others whom dares to challenge your views would be similarly labelled as such?
Cut the BS. I don't even know why you bothered to reply, except perhaps to justify your cowardice now? Please, stick to the topic instead of attempting to scare others to voicing their opinions. Just as you are taught to bully others, so too am I taught to stand up to bullies.
You are free to derail the thread and scare others. Just know that others may not be as patient as me when you clearly broke T&C rules. I don't complain to moderators. I prefer to let you dig your own grave deeper.
Originally posted by pavil
Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
1. Not true. The 'over and over again' only happens in Hollywood, and in the real world, only very small amount of conflicts called either luck or miracle such events happened. It isn't an everyday occurence or there would have been no need for funding of standing armies. Many more sought to avoid such battles or surrender.
Let's be honest. Remember Mogadishu. The small team of spec ops could not even hold off scrawny savages and had their bodies dragged across streets. Not the spec ops fault as they were taken by surprise and overwhelmed by the many, and suffered the consequences.
Casulaties from the whole of the Mogadishu battle are quite telling, but I am sure you will dismiss them. Remember here we are talking 1,000 to 3,000 Somalis vs aprox 100 to 150 at Benghazi according to info I have seen.
Total UN forces casualties in Mogadishu 102
Total Somali casualties in Mogadishu US estimate 2,200, Somali Militia Estimate 1,127.
At worst case you are looking at a 10 to 1 casualty ratio, best case is 20 to 1.
When you figure out deaths UN killed 20, US estimate of Somali Militia deaths 700+, Somali Militia Estimate 315. You are looking at least a 16 to 1 kill ratio using the Somali Militia number or 35 to 1 kill ratio using US estimates.
Either way, your bringing up the example of Mogadishu shows that a smaller force can inflict HUGE losses on an attacker. With proper setup of a base, you could make those even higher.
Oh, btw the way, I remember Navydoc asking for your military credentials, or are you just an "armchair General"?? You seem to not have a very good grasp of military capabilities and tactics.
edit on 20-5-2013 by pavil because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Originally posted by 2ndthought
I don't see this as a partisan issue. I see this as an issue that could very well affect every single one of us. Some just refuse to consider that their dear leader would do anything against the citizens of this country. It's my contention that under all the layers, he doesn't give one small damn about us.
It certainly is a partisan issue. There were zero republicans in the 9-11 boards talking about a possible false flag, just like there are zero liberals talking about benghazi in this thread.
Just like there were zero liberals making a big deal about boston, and tons of conservatives MAKING IT INTO a big deal. No one could prove anything up till now.
Guns was the only thing that was bipartisan and most people rejected it and for good reason. I hated what Obama tried to do and stated so previously.
What should be made a big deal by BOTH PARTIES is we should get the hell out of the middle east before we start ww3 with russia and china.edit on 19/5/13 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Indigo5
Congress, specifically the GOP were also the ones who cut 300 M from Embassy Security.
Absolutely lie.
Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) acknowledged on Wednesday that House Republicans had consciously voted to reduce the funds allocated to the State Department for embassy security since winning the majority in 2010.
On Wednesday morning, CNN anchor Soledad O'Brien asked the Utah Republican if he had "voted to cut the funding for embassy security."
"Absolutely," Chaffetz said. "Look we have to make priorities and choices in this country. We have…15,000 contractors in Iraq. We have more than 6,000 contractors, a private army there, for President Obama, in Baghdad. And we’re talking about can we get two dozen or so people into Libya to help protect our forces. When you’re in tough economic times, you have to make difficult choices. You have to prioritize things.”
In fiscal year 2011, lawmakers shaved $128 million off of the administration's request for embassy security funding. House Republicans drained off even more funds in fiscal year 2012 -- cutting back on the department's request by $331 million.
Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by 2ndthought
Resorting to more personal attacks and cowardly back tracking still? Is your ego so great that when your mistakes were called out, instead of graciously admitting to it, you prefer to use your freedom of expression to thumb others down, and call them bullies while at it?
Anyway, its your life. If you and your kind think that by trumpeting your arrogances show your supposed 'logic', then I leave you to show your intellectual level to others.
To Pavil:-
Indeed I do, and will DISMISS your Somali figures, simply because Benghazi is NOT Somali. America or UN had not stepped in Libya as troops-in-force, and it is only utter stupidity to use casualty comparisons in different theatres of conflict and situations, that only fools would subscribe to.
But do continue with you and your kind's grasping for straws to keep the Benghazi issue alive. It is almost dead as many realized the use of a literally dead issue as deflection the republicans are doing instead of focusing on the real issue - the economy that affects all living americans today.
And by the way - as for my credentials - I am only an insignificant nobody. I leave it to others to judge. I don't trumpet my achievements like some arrogant fools here, but let others to freely decide on what they read. Better to let words do the talking.
Originally posted by 2ndthought
As for 'credentials', does his mommies say so count?edit on 20-5-2013 by 2ndthought because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Indigo5
Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Indigo5
Congress, specifically the GOP were also the ones who cut 300 M from Embassy Security.
Absolutely lie.
Hmmm. Has anyone told the GOP that cut the funding?
Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) acknowledged on Wednesday that House Republicans had consciously voted to reduce the funds allocated to the State Department for embassy security since winning the majority in 2010.
On Wednesday morning, CNN anchor Soledad O'Brien asked the Utah Republican if he had "voted to cut the funding for embassy security."
"Absolutely," Chaffetz said. "Look we have to make priorities and choices in this country. We have…15,000 contractors in Iraq. We have more than 6,000 contractors, a private army there, for President Obama, in Baghdad. And we’re talking about can we get two dozen or so people into Libya to help protect our forces. When you’re in tough economic times, you have to make difficult choices. You have to prioritize things.”
www.huffingtonpost.com...
In fiscal year 2011, lawmakers shaved $128 million off of the administration's request for embassy security funding. House Republicans drained off even more funds in fiscal year 2012 -- cutting back on the department's request by $331 million.