A.T.S and the Military what is the deal?

Being an invading force in another land is wrong. Taking another life while being an invading force, because you are told to, is wrong. Protecting your country and fellow citizens on your own soil is right.......One is right the others morally wrong........

Very well written, and I completely agree. It's so easy for some to just assume that our military members are "baby killers", or whatever term they're using these days. There are times when I've disagreed with some actions of our military. . .but now I see that simply, if they didn't do their jobs, we'd lose everything.

I can't express the level of respect I have for our military and the freedoms they defend. I am sorry about those who have lost their lives as a result of the actions of the USA, but we have to assume that the military knows more than we do, and sometimes the "innocent" people just may be quite the opposite.

Originally posted by captiva
Being an invading force in another land is wrong. Taking another life while being an invading force, because you are told to, is wrong. Protecting your country and fellow citizens on your own soil is right.......One is right the others morally wrong........

Well then what were your countrymen doing in Iraq and Afghanistan for YEARS?

Maybe you should take up this argument with your government?

The sheep dog analogy would be better described as this
Sheepdog = Pit bull terrier that hasn't been fed for a few days
Shepard= Psychopath
Sheep= Scared sh17les55 sheeple.

The ones who plead undying alliance to the military industrial complex are either totally brainwashed or terrified to be seen not to agree with it. Im sure it's a mix of both types. I recall George W statement "your either with us or against us", that one statement cast the die. Intimidating much? What patriotic american would dare speak out against the military invasions after that. Bush made it so you couldn't say anything out of tune, or else you would be marked as an enemy of the state..Tell me im wrong. To be afraid to speak your opinion, is the atmosphere Bush brought to America. FEAR of self expression, fear to even question the invasions. All this "i support our military" jingoism, is a result of all that fear.

I though the whole idea of over throwing dictators in the middle east was because they forced their people to live in fear. with no freedom of speech. Ring any bells. Your either with us or against us...so don't even dare question what we do in your name. When Bush turned the fear onto the American people as much as any terrorist could ever do. freedom died in my opinion and ignorance and fear took over. I hope America is once again a beacon of hope one day...but I cant see it anytime soon.

I think people are against the military because most of the tax money goes to them and the people get nothing in return except a lower standard of living, more surveillance, less liberty, less social security, more watching violence on TV, more killing of innocent people so the dollar can be the only thing to buy oil with

This is why the hoorah for military is petering out now, it was good up until the mid nineties but now even some of the most naive people can see the game.

Also people are disgusted by the known false flags of the 20th century. Having relatives that went and fought for all of this and they got nothing in return makes me wonder, what really is the deal.

I don't have any hatred against those who serve in the armed forces. Contempt and pity maybe, but not hatred. I do not revere them, or thank them when I see them in public. There isn't a human alive today who has shed one drop of blood to "protect my freedom". Pretty much all the military conflicts in the last 100 years have been over land and resources.

With the exception of Pearl Harbor (which we knew about ahead of time and didn't do anything to prevent) nobody has attacked us. Perhaps if we were under attack and people were volunteering to protect us I'd feel differently.

The people who actually volunteer to take part in the carnage may think they are defending my freedoms. But they would be incorrect. Ignorance on their part does not necessitate gratitude on mine.

Former Navy myself. Most of the people mentioned in the Op have no Idea what it's like to be in the Military, and sadly there are those in the Military that will follow every order, even the unlawful orders that you are not supposed to follow.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

You made all sorts of accusations against me, which have no basis. In fact, you've made so many assumptions that are not in my post, it doesn't even pay to respond to those assumptions. The fact that so many star your post indicates the vast ignorance that does exist on ATS, and validates the OP's concerns. I stand by what I said in my post, but not necessarily by what you CLAIM I said, but did not. Have a nice life, although I find it hard to believe that with so much anger and hatred boiling within you, you will. I will pray for you, and hope someday you find peace. Unfortunately, I doubt that you will find it here, with so many that share your extreme hatred to encourage your tortured behavior. Sadly, you are a very troubled soul.

reply to post by Gazrok

How do you come to the END of a war on an IDEA?

You can't. Thats the beauty of it. How do you argue against a war that has no front line, objectives or ROE (rules of engagement)? Anything goes, for however long the "definers" or "deciders" say.

Gotta be some kind of clue.

reply to post by Malynn


You know I was getting bogged down in this tit for tat nonsense thread until i seen your avatar. So that's what the aliens really look like. You can "liberate " me anytime green eyes.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus




Please point out where and how I misrepresented your post. It seemed pretty clear cut to me but if you are able to correct me I will apologize, perhaps it was a simple misunderstanding right? The last thing I want to do is incorrectly portray what you posted.

I still stand by what I posed too until further notice.

And trust me, I am not spreading hatred, just logic.

Also, please DO NOT pray for me.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


I hate responding to the same post twice but I am really curious as to what assumptions and accusations I have made. My opinion is that my original post to you was rather in depth and relevant to what YOU posted as it was a response to YOUR post.

And please do not moan about people starring a post and then saying "that's what is wrong with ATS", maybe people agreed with what I had to say in reference to YOUR post and that is why they starred it.

Personally I consider this a glimmer of hope on ATS amidst an abundance of military back scratching posts in this thread and many others. I respect everyone's opinion but please let me have mine as well. That's what you are out there fighting for right

reply to post by sulaw


Usually when people make me mad I ruin a small part of their life.

reply to post by seabag

Well then what were your countrymen doing in Iraq and Afghanistan for YEARS?

Maybe you should take up this argument with your government?

Shhhhhhhh, Bush isn't in office anymore! Kinda funny how they change their tune when their team is in control! Screw political parties! They either obey the Constitution or they are guilty of disobeying it! Period! Having a D or R after their name shouldn't matter in the least!

If you caught your wife or husband in the sack with someone whom is of the same political belief as you, would it make it right?

:

reply to post by seeker1963

Lol, stop making so much sense it will hurt their heads.

All they can see is that their asses are right about shoulder level, and everything they are told by their masters is a fact, not an oppinion.

I appreciate your service and sacrifice sir. I myself served as well US Army , however from my observation it seems ATS is unhappy with the agenda the armed forces serves in these times as opposed to the soldiers themselves. When we are living in a bureaucracy, a dictatorship fighting endless worthless war's ... yes WORTHLESS wars. Endless & meaningless Wars with lobbyist controlled politicians using our fine men and women as disposable heroes for monetary gain over a great LIE. Killing in the name of freedom when it is quite the contrary, we are a resource to the big Oil corporatocracy as much as the black crude itself. I think people are frustrated over all, at a boiling point. For instance being outraged at our very own military personnel being punished for refusing to serve these scoundrels.

I pretty much sum it all up here
www.abovetopsecret.com...


My father, his father his father's father and before him for hundreds of years served and fought every war imaginable. It ends with my son because he decided he is not going to serve this mindless juggernaut after educating him on the subject. This time, like these politicians that have sacrificed our sons and never thy own, I will not be giving my 17 yo to Uncle Sam.

The hum dinger is, nobody is asking for democracy and these people do not want it. It does NOT WORK! Irony is we are suppose to be a republic, or we use to be.


They can find someone else to guard their poppy fields and oil wells Having said that today's youth should know better to enlist at all. They should know what they are getting in to. People join for different reasons, my reason was a sense of duty and heritage next was serving my fellow citizens NOT politicians agendas. Things have change a lot since those times. People should be educated on what they are getting in to before enlisting and signing their soul away. In my humble opinion there is no reason or incentive to join any branch of service in 2013. It is just not worth it. Sad but true! A patriot will refuse to be the enabler of these traitors in Washington DC.


dissent is the highest form of patriotism - Thomas Jefferson

Every Secretary of Defense since Eisenhower has been a member of the CFR. Who else is member of CFR? Skull and Bones members. Every President since Carter has been surrounded by CFR. These are the people who are deciding what our military does.
In the 60's there was a huge anti-war effort. Guess who was stirring that pot up? Radicals like Weatherman Underground Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn(who also incidentally support the current POTUS), and SDS. Why were these people anti-war? Because the anti-war movement dampened our ability to fight and win wars against world communism by applying pressure on govt.
Who is anti-war today that springs to mind? Why Code Pink, a radical group with ties to Hugo Chavez.
On one hand, we have the power elites getting us into this or that war, and on the other hand we have the anti-war radicals whose agenda is really to stop us from winning.

I guess when the CFR runs out of foreign wars to fight, they will just fight domestic terrorism. (which is a complete perversion of what our Constitution stands for)
www.infowars.com...

That being said, my Dad was a lieutenant in WWII, carried an officer to safety, and was in the 82nd airborne as a paratrooper and went in to the Neuengamme camps to free the prisoners there. My ancestor fought in the Revolutionary War.

There is a time and a place to fight wars for freedom.

Professor Antony Sutton explains that the power elite of Skull and Bones uses Hegelian dialectic, and are involved in "managed conflict".

reply to post by TheBlackHat


HMMM, some truth here, some exaggerations as well.

The crusades where a result of Muslim incursion into southern Europe. Started by the Muslims, not the Christians.

The U.S. an empire?? O.K. I buy that. But, not as result of invasion. NO U.S. Bases in Canada, Britain? Sure. Gee, It must have skipped my mind when we invaded the Brits... Another "fact". No country with a U.S. base has ever been invaded while that base was there, if memory serves.. Even the Germans to this day attempt to keep the U.S. Bases that they have, albeit for financial issues, certainly not any threat to the locals.

The U.S. Empire is built on blue water dominance, not invasion, unlike the British Empire which used both.



A benevolent empire to say the least when compared to earlier versions

reply to post by nwtrucker

No country with a U.S. base has ever been invaded while that base was there, if memory serves..

That's because they build the bases AFTER they invade.



(not all bases were built on invaded soil, just pointing that out)

I think most people have a problem with the military as an organization not so much with the individuals.