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A.T.S and the Military what is the deal?

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posted on May, 12 2013 @ 05:12 PM
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First I would like to thank you all for taking the time out of your busy days to read my thread. Mod's feel free to move this, I just guessed about the forum, hoping it would fit here.

I've been a member of ATS for a few years now, and Read A.T.S much longer than I was a member. I've noticed over the years, an anti-military sentiment growing. More and More members of A.T.S are refusing to fallow our motto of deny ignorance.

They refuse to look at any thing concerning the military, objectively. These people come into a thread showing utter disrespect for any one who has ever served. Most of the time, I read these agitators it is clear, they didn't read the O.P or the corresponding article, that was linked in said O.P

The come in with a preconceived notion, skim, or just don't even bother to read it. Before ejaculating all over the thread. with Baseless, or false statements, some times blatantly attacking other members. This to me is unacceptable to me, in any forum or subject. I try to strive for objectivity, even to the point if I feel too emotionally involved, I will wait. If you look at my past posts, I wasn't always this way.

I am a disabled combat veteran, I don't blindly fallow orders, nor do I support every thing my government does, or chooses to act upon. I look at each subject no matter, what the Topic, I read the O.P than the Article, and If I feel, I can add to or debate the subject I will add to the thread. Some times, Not often I feel the need to play devils advocate, If I feel, a thread is too one sided.

So, I ask the community as a whole, Am I the only one who sees this trend continuing to rise here on A.T.S not just in one forum, but across the full Spectrum of forums. Not every person is always going to be 100% right or wrong. We are here to learn, teach, debate and grow as humans. Its up to us to lead the way, and show others, on lesser boards why we are the best community on the internet.

So in closing I ask the community to join in raising the standards again, To lead others, and show the world why the people on A.T.S aren't mindless sheep, the blindly fallow the status quo. We look at all subjects, no matter how far out there, or how prophetic the thread is.

So fallow me, in leading the way, and show the world, why we Deny Ignorance.
'




posted on May, 12 2013 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by Reaper2137
 


You can pretty much boil it down to emotions. We've all seen it. Some topics just push the buttons of others and they go off because you or I do not think like they do and they know better. Heck, I've done it myself.

This is the sad direction that the U.S going to though. We are losing the rational/critical thought process.



posted on May, 12 2013 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by Reaper2137
 


I absolutely see the trend, but I am seeing it as a two sided trend........................Let me clarify..................

First off I see that those whom seem to get their rocks off vilifying those in the military are the same ones whom parade themselves and their opinions as "supporting" the current commander in chief!

Don't get excited..................I also see another side of it where those whom are totally AGAINST our current POTUS,,,, supporting the criminalization of those whom declare they want out of the military because they don't agree with the orders they are being given!??

Bottom line, the Constitution, does not say one thing about our military being used as the "globalist police" OR "the banking army"!

I am a VET, and considering the state of the corrupt government of the US, I have a hard time condemning a person in the military for saying "screw this!".

So I guess what I am trying to say is, you either support the Constitution of the United States of America,,,,,,,,,,,,,,or you can choose to only bring it up when it suits your needs...............



posted on May, 12 2013 @ 05:34 PM
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i did 12 days basic training when i was 18 at aldershot in the uk that was enough i was invited to come back when i was older i wanted to be a paratrooper but found the way that some guys were treated sad .

a lot of my friends were in the service for years and all have mental scars from that . this area i live in has a high proportion of sas soldiers for the size of it but you can tell from looking at them they have crazy dont mess with me eyes .

it is too easy now to go online and see the horrors what happened in vietnam /iraq /afganistan etc and the videos posted from servicemen sickened by what went on over there only last night on the box was a story of the rapes of both sexes in the military in the us nuff said bud glad i got a trade instead



posted on May, 12 2013 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by Reaper2137
 


You can pretty much boil it down to emotions. We've all seen it. Some topics just push the buttons of others and they go off because you or I do not think like they do and they know better. Heck, I've done it myself.

This is the sad direction that the U.S going to though. We are losing the rational/critical thought process.



Yes I agree, Its just a current trend, I hope we can improve on with objectivity, and taking a breather before responding. Its O.K every once and a while to have a brain fart and shoot off at the mouth. Yet to improve we have to maintain our discipline.

I also see the direction our country is going to, and don't like it one bit, but to change it you have to be vocal and start the change with our A.O's If we all pitch in, we will see a change.



posted on May, 12 2013 @ 05:45 PM
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I wouldn't be concerned with the fact that the attention is directed to the soldiers as much as it's directed to the Army itself and the choices it makes on your behalf.

I think the majority of problems people have with the forces is what they are being used to accomplish.

Also when the attention is on the soldiers, I find it to be because of their lack of resistance to what should be perceived as illegal orders, they just follow them without question (a good soldier) but where have we heard that before?



posted on May, 12 2013 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by Reaper2137

I look at each subject no matter, what the Topic, I read the O.P than the Article, and If I feel, I can add to or debate the subject I will add to the thread. Some times, Not often I feel the need to play devils advocate, If I feel, a thread is too one sided.

So, I ask the community as a whole, Am I the only one who sees this trend continuing to rise here on A.T.S not just in one forum, but across the full Spectrum of forums. Not every person is always going to be 100% right or wrong. We are here to learn, teach, debate and grow as humans. Its up to us to lead the way, and show others, on lesser boards why we are the best community on the internet.



I really like your attitude and the way you handle each (topic); I think it is a good way to be.

I too have seen a growing trend on ATS that is very anti-military. People can be pro-military or anti-military...(of course) it is each individuals right to believe how they choose; however...I would like to see the (cruelty) stopped that I have observed in some threads.

I think people can get their points across and still be respectful.



posted on May, 12 2013 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by seeker1963
reply to post by Reaper2137
 


I absolutely see the trend, but I am seeing it as a two sided trend........................Let me clarify..................

First off I see that those whom seem to get their rocks off vilifying those in the military are the same ones whom parade themselves and their opinions as "supporting" the current commander in chief!

Don't get excited..................I also see another side of it where those whom are totally AGAINST our current POTUS,,,, supporting the criminalization of those whom declare they want out of the military because they don't agree with the orders they are being given!??

Bottom line, the Constitution, does not say one thing about our military being used as the "globalist police" OR "the banking army"!

I am a VET, and considering the state of the corrupt government of the US, I have a hard time condemning a person in the military for saying "screw this!".

So I guess what I am trying to say is, you either support the Constitution of the United States of America,,,,,,,,,,,,,,or you can choose to only bring it up when it suits your needs...............


I perfectly see the problem on both sides, the military is just the straw that broke the camels back for me. I thank you for your kind words of wisdom, its a great point you bring, up. I do also see vets that just blindly fallow, I'm big enough to say that I used to be that way.

You fallow your country weather its right or wrong, you stand together, and change from within. You fess up to your wrongs and correct them, hold them up as a beacon to all, that we handled our own.

You learn from the mistake and never forget it, forge ahead with a head held high.



posted on May, 12 2013 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by billdadobbie
i did 12 days basic training when i was 18 at aldershot in the uk that was enough i was invited to come back when i was older i wanted to be a paratrooper but found the way that some guys were treated sad .

a lot of my friends were in the service for years and all have mental scars from that . this area i live in has a high proportion of sas soldiers for the size of it but you can tell from looking at them they have crazy dont mess with me eyes .

it is too easy now to go online and see the horrors what happened in vietnam /iraq /afganistan etc and the videos posted from servicemen sickened by what went on over there only last night on the box was a story of the rapes of both sexes in the military in the us nuff said bud glad i got a trade instead


Thanks for your service, any time spent in uniform is time well spent, at least learning how the other half lives. Now, unlike any other war America or the U.K has been in. Is the rapid information and the exchange of information.

The same problems that military's had around the world are still the same, War Crimes, Collateral Damage, the effects prolonged conflict leaves on the troops them self's, can now be seen instantly, and in greater detail than ever before. As such, we are able to learn that much quicker how to adapt and over come.

God Save the Queen my brother from across the pond.



posted on May, 12 2013 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by yourmaker
I wouldn't be concerned with the fact that the attention is directed to the soldiers as much as it's directed to the Army itself and the choices it makes on your behalf.

I think the majority of problems people have with the forces is what they are being used to accomplish.

Also when the attention is on the soldiers, I find it to be because of their lack of resistance to what should be perceived as illegal orders, they just follow them without question (a good soldier) but where have we heard that before?


Not all orders are Illegal, A soldier at least in the United States, as an obligation to not fallow an unlawful order. The misconception comes from the fact that as a normal person, you are given rights, you can question any thing you want.

In the Military, you cannot do that, Doesn't matter if the people above you in the chain of command agree with the direction of the President or Congress, the Military doesn't vote, Individuals do, but as a collective they do not. At the end of the day, The Military much fallow the orders of the president of the united states and congress. Weather the Generals agree with the orders or not.



posted on May, 12 2013 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by caladonea
I really like your attitude and the way you handle each (topic); I think it is a good way to be.

I too have seen a growing trend on ATS that is very anti-military. People can be pro-military or anti-military...(of course) it is each individuals right to believe how they choose; however...I would like to see the (cruelty) stopped that I have observed in some threads.

I think people can get their points across and still be respectful.


Thank you for the kind words, I do agree it doesn't matter weather you are pro-military or anti-military. People should be able to exchange information in a clear, rational manner with out the need for attacking one another.



posted on May, 12 2013 @ 05:57 PM
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reply to post by Reaper2137
 


I've been in the Marine Corps for about 12 years.

I have seen it too, but I don't really care.
I don't require anyone's support or approval. If someone wants to have an opinion based on ignorance, that's their problem.

I may not agree with why or what we have to do most of the time, but it's what I do. I fight battles. I'm not a hero, no one should look up to me, don't use me as a role model. I'm not special.

All I can do is try to do the right things for the right reasons when you're put in a bad situation.

With that being said, if I come across a post that is not correct or is based on misinformation I will try to correct it in a clear concise manner. But, I'm not going to let myself be baited into mudslinging. If they want to discuss it in a civilized way, fine. If not, oh well.
edit on 12-5-2013 by watchitburn because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2013 @ 05:58 PM
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reply to post by Reaper2137
 





The come in with a preconceived notion, skim, or just don't even bother to read it. Before ejaculating all over the thread.


I love your choice of words.

On a more serious note I would like to thank you for your service and I am sorry you were injured.

I'm also a veteran but I haven't noticed the attacks against vets on this site. I'm a new member so I'm not saying it doesn't happen I just haven't read any comments that were blatantly disrespectful.

If any of the members have a problem with me because I served in the military let me say that he or she can kiss my ass. There are many better reasons to dislike me or my comments. To dislike me because I served my country is just plain stupid.



posted on May, 12 2013 @ 05:59 PM
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I do not always agree with military policy, American or otherwise. But I never confuse military policy with the brave men and women who serve their countries. They always deserve respect for their sacrifices and service.

I think some people get caught up and fail to differentiate between the two things.



posted on May, 12 2013 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by watchitburn
reply to post by Reaper2137
 


I've been in the Marine Corps for about 12 years.

I have seen it too, but I don't really care.
I don't require anyone's support or approval. If someone wants to have an opinion based on ignorance, that's their problem.

I may not agree with why or what we have to do most of the time, but it's what I do. I fight battles. I'm not a hero, no one should look up to me, don't use me as a role model. I'm not special.

All I can do is try to do the right things for the right reasons when you're put in a bad situation.

With that being said, if I come across a post that is not correct or is based on misinformation I will try to correct it in a clear concise manner. But, I'm not going to let myself be baited into mudslinging. If they want to discuss it in a civilized way, fine. If not, oh well.
edit on 12-5-2013 by watchitburn because: (no reason given)


That is a good mind set to have, I was not a Marine, my dad was, I have the up most respect for the Marines, Semper Fidelis. I also although, I'm not always right I some times let my emotions control my post its a weakness I need to correct within my self. Thanks for your service.



posted on May, 12 2013 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by billy565
reply to post by Reaper2137
 





The come in with a preconceived notion, skim, or just don't even bother to read it. Before ejaculating all over the thread.


I love your choice of words.

On a more serious note I would like to thank you for your service and I am sorry you were injured.

I'm also a veteran but I haven't noticed the attacks against vets on this site. I'm a new member so I'm not saying it doesn't happen I just haven't read any comments that were blatantly disrespectful.

If any of the members have a problem with me because I served in the military let me say that he or she can kiss my ass. There are many better reasons to dislike me or my comments. To dislike me because I served my country is just plain stupid.



Thanks for your service as well. I just wish I could still serve. If you are new you will notice it and it will be blatant, just remember to kill them with kindness. They can't stand it lol..



posted on May, 12 2013 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by Hefficide

I do not always agree with military policy, American or otherwise. But I never confuse military policy with the brave men and women who serve their countries. They always deserve respect for their sacrifices and service.

I think some people get caught up and fail to differentiate between the two things.


I see your point and thank you for bringing it up. I do see many people confuse the policy and the decisions of our leaders, as some thing we personally can change within the military.



posted on May, 12 2013 @ 06:28 PM
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Well, if someone got into a car and picked me up on the side of the road and gave me a lift to where I needed to go Id be grateful but I wouldn't thank the car, id thank the driver. if someone got in a car and drove it at me, you could say the man driving the car, used the unwitting, unthinking car as a weapon, so it's not the cars fault and Id blame the driver.
The military is used in the same way, as an unthinking tool, by who ever happens to be giving the orders. the problem is, the military is made up of thinking men and women, who have beliefs and moral standards, but the minute you join the military you voluntarily give up your "free will". you knowingly give your free will over to a chain of command, and unbreakable orders.
Someone who voluntarily gives up their free will and reduces themselves to a machine that follows orders..human beings are not machines..and as people say with the old excuse "i was only following orders" it doesn't wash, because people are not machines, made to follow someone elses version of right and wrong, that's why you have a brain, your supposed to follow your own decisions.
I am not saying people who join the military are good or bad people, because we all know all types of people join the military for varying reasons, some want to make the world a better place and some want to see what its like to kill other people without having to go to prison for it.
But the difference between a tool like a car and the men and women who make up the military, you are all human beings with a moral compass already installed, so when the orders and wars appear to be for oil etc, then those who participate do it willingly, even though they may well disagree. This fact makes everyone who participates in immoral activities as copable as the one who orders them.
I would never put myself in a position where I knew i had to carry out another mans orders, because another mans interest will never have my interest at the heart of it.
What was the line in that movie predator "your an asset..an expendable asset"
I know its supposed to be commendable but I personally don't see it. id rather follow my own orders.
For the record this is my first comment about the military...I haven't noticed any bashing either..although there well may be alot of it.
For those who join up, that's their choice, it isn't for me that's all.
edit on 12-5-2013 by TheBlackHat because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2013 @ 06:31 PM
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Former Military here as well.

Maybe I am missing something, but most of the anger I see is not against the military but against the wars our GOVERNMENT is involved in.

The military does not do anything unless ordered to by the government and therein lies the problem.



posted on May, 12 2013 @ 06:43 PM
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I think the majority of hate directed at the Military AND troops with no distinction or care between the men and women who serve vs. the mission the Pentagon carries out for Political leadership, fall into two main categories.

- Anarchists or those who are and don't even know the term applies to them. These are also the folks we see condemn cops and pretty much all forms of authority or people acting for something above their own self interest.

I know it sounds harsh to say it that way ..and nothing is all inclusive of course. Some have very good reasons for their dislike or hate ..they also aren't who I mean, nor the OP, I imagine.

- The other are the agitators, and well described that way, who may or may not even believe what they're saying. They know there are Military here and those like me who haven't served (Medical at MEPS stopped that career path) but feel very deeply about respect toward those who do. This category are the folks who I think simply enjoy infuriating other people, like it's a game with scores kept or something.

I wrote a pretty strong rant on this myself one night when I'd just had enough of the unfounded, wild hate directed at people most who sling it have never met, will never understand and figure they know all 'cause a movie said so.

Never again. What happened to NEVER AGAIN?

It's one of those things... My rant made me feel a bit better and then it was on to the next story and the same 'ol same 'ol starting all over for a brand new day.






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