Petition "Stop Any and All Islamic Immigration Into the US"

reply to post by Berzerked


I agree with closing the border with Mexico too.

And I never said the idea of the petition was flawless. My post was more to get people to start thinking about a possible direction our country may be heading.

reply to post by ratcals


Respectfully, I think the vast majority of Muslim people are like the majority of the peoples of most nations, peace loving and friendly.

I understand If you want to keep out the handful of Muslim radicals bent on causing death and destruction in America.

But...

Perhaps you should ask why these Muslim radicals exist in the first place ?

There is a phenonomen unique to this country called Americanization. Perhaps not unique but certainly more powerful than anywhere else in the world due to our separation from other places and many other factors.

Basically people become Americanized, given enough time, and it ultimately becomes part of them. We can see evidence of this with most native americans who identify more with being American than Native, although they still say they are they don't act like it.

Blacks have thouroughly assimilated and identify more with America than their origins in Africa. Same with muslims, mexicans, or any other group that spends a long period here. Take someone who is of middle eastern ethnicity but raised in America and send them back to their country of origin and they will stick out like a sore thumb.

Certainly many cultures retain their identities with a good example being the Chinese culture, but even there the American influence is so heavy they are nothing like their kin back in the homeland.

Let the country fill up with muslims and you will not see sharia law happening you will see their children speaking english and going to baseball games. We will always have different cultures in america from the native americans to irish to italian, black, latino, asian....you name it but there is always an underlying tone of american beneath it.

This nationalism is not something you see among immigrants in europe where they retain their identities much more easily and there have been quite a few studies trying to figure out why this is. Not really my field but there is plenty of research available for anyone more interested in it.

American exceptionalism is still alive and although new immigrants may not pick up on it their kids certainly do. I wouldn't worry too much about who's coming into the country as long as its through a legal process and they are moving here because they want to be part of the country.

reply to post by ratcals

We took the land from the American Indians. Although we didn't enslave them, we did make their lives miserable.

Sure, but the wording of your comment suggested that by country you meant " The United States". The land in America has changed hands many times, even before the Europeans arrived here.

Now that we got history that goes back over a hundred years out of the way. Why don't you actually try and argue why Muslims who have committed no crimes and are not affiliated with any criminal organization should be denied immigration in the modern era.

Originally posted by ratcals
reply to post by luciddream

 

So yo honestly don't think if their numbers get big enough they are not going to start changing things to their ways? I'm not talking about today or tomorrow or even ten years from now. It's been done in the past on this very land. Have you forgotten about the American Indians and what we did to them?

edit on 8-5-2013 by ratcals because: Left out a critical word.

Not necessarily
www.newscientist.com...

Also remember then that there was more a lot more land, food was plentiful for all and there was no economy like there is today.

Originally posted by ratcals
reply to post by Openeye

 

We took the land from the American Indians. Although we didn't enslave them, we did make their lives miserable.

well then i guess it would be fair if it happened..should take it as good as dish it out
not going to happen anyway

reply to post by ratcals


I think this kind of falls under the same context as those who would seek to reduce our liberties for that little, perceived safety. I mean, regardless of any situation, you can't just run and hide.

Islam is itself no more threat than was communism. Both are inanimate concepts; one faith, one political, that are used by some to control others. The foe here is not those concepts but those who use them to cause harm to others or for their own gratification and profit.

During WW2, the only thing we had to fear was... fear itself. Here in the 21st century, the only thing we have to rely on is... well, fear itself. We must fear terrorism or Islam or guns and then, surrender our freedoms so that we can snuggle safely in the bosom of government.

Personally, I would rather die a free man than live like some frightened rabbit scrunched into its shanty hovel of safety.

Look, here’s my thought process on this. I am of the old school military mentality. If one person in the unit messes up then everybody pays for it. Everybody wasn’t a winner back in those days. Then the people who are being punished ‘fix’ the ‘problem’ that caused the punishment. So we punish the entire Islamic community by no longer allowing them to immigrate to our country. Then let them figure out how to fix the Radical Islamists.

Not a fool proof plan, I know.

Originally posted by ratcals
Look, here’s my thought process on this. I am of the old school military mentality. If one person in the unit messes up then everybody pays for it. Everybody wasn’t a winner back in those days. Then the people who are being punished ‘fix’ the ‘problem’ that caused the punishment. So we punish the entire Islamic community by no longer allowing them to immigrate to our country. Then let them figure out how to fix the Radical Islamists.

Not a fool proof plan, I know.

I can respect that but what we are talking about is on a much more massive scale. :/

Btw, I support the "one person messes up then everybody pays for it" mentality. That's how it was in H.S. football.

Just wow, I mean I guess there is always someone who feels a certain way. Many time its do to lack of information, total misinformation or someone having an opinion because they "feel" its the right thing. *sigh*

For starters, most Arab countries that didn't have US puppets for masters and before they were attacked by the western world WERE NOT BACKWARDS COUNTRIES for CHRIST SAKE! Wake up people, seriously.

The backwards countries are in fact nations we actually support or in very rural areas within countries. If you actually were to look at Afgahnastan before Russia invaded they were quite western in their behaviors and the cities were quite modern. Same can be said about Iran. Did you know there are Iranian college students who go down to Tahrir square and break dance?

The issues that plague our nation isn't American citizens nor is it muslims. It is governments both here and abroad. The people don't really hate us because we are white, or because we are christians or because they hate our freedoms. They hate us because of what we do to their nations wealth. We rob and steal from them then have the nerve to call them terrorists.

Can we be any more egotistical, self-absorbed mightier than thou dip #s? I think the answer is no, no we can't. We have redefined the very nature of those words. Sad and pathetic but hey what do you expect from spoiled rotten kids? right?

reply to post by ratcals

Look, here’s my thought process on this. I am of the old school military mentality. If one person in the unit messes up then everybody pays for it.

Well a civilian community is not the military. Applying military codes to civilians is asinine and goes against everything "freedom" stands for.

Not a fool proof plan, I know.

Not only is it not full proof, it is unethical, unrealistic, and overall ridiculous.

So I guess you were cool with the Japanese internment camps right?

reply to post by kimish


I realize that, but something has to be done. Make the rest of the Islamic religion fix their own problem. It gives them a bad name. I happen to have some very good friends from Turkey who are Islamic. We've had some great religous conversations. They are no different from us and I have no ill will towards their faith.

It's actually threads and thoughts like this that make me embarresed to call myself human.

reply to post by Openeye


That is just not military code. Like I posted above, that's how it was in Football camp when I played. If someone made a mistake and the rest of us got punished, well then, we'd make that person pay.

reply to post by Openeye


No, I do not support the internment camps. I'm not suggesting putting anyone into any camp. I'm just denying them entrance. Apples and oranges.

Those White House petitions are a joke. I don't see why anybody takes them seriously anymore. It seems like anyone can make one for whatever kooky cause they can dream up.


Me, I want to start a petition to make my ATS points the new legal currency of the United States. Then maybe they'll be good for something. Although I would probably just blow 'em all on booze and women.

Originally posted by ratcals
reply to post by Berzerked

 

I agree with closing the border with Mexico too.

And I never said the idea of the petition was flawless. My post was more to get people to start thinking about a possible direction our country may be heading.

Give me a break. People said the same BS about the Irish, the Italians, the Chinese, the Pole etc. The founding fathers made it clear Muslims were welcome. And yes if your wonder the mentioned them specifically. Of course the fact the first nation to recognize the US was Muslim and the fact they protected our trade ships in the Med from pirates when all of Christian Europe refused to may have had something to do with that. Muslims also have fought for America in every major war in our history starting with the revolution. Not to mention 50,000 of them currently serving in our military right now so that somebody who wants the US to become Nazi Germany and start banning people people based on religion has the right to say so.

reply to post by ratcals

Apples and oranges.

The comparison is flimsy sure.

However you are arguing the deliberate discrimination of innocent people simply because of the God they believe in. You do not see how that is inherently against everything this country stands for?

So what happens to the Muslim citizens who already live here? What happens to the Muslims who lie and become citizens?

Wasn't there an incredibly uptight dictator
with a funny little mustache who thought like this?
How'd that go over?

Diversify news sources.

You'd be amazed how much the world ISN'T on fire
NOR controlled by the Muslim brotherhood, when you listen
to someone other than FOX or AM radio shock joks.

Originally posted by ratcals
I'm kind of surprised this hasn't been posted on here anywhere already. I did a search and it turned up nothing.

Here is the complete title of the petition:

Stop Any and All Islamic Immigration Into the US in Light of Islamic Attacks Against The US

I'm probably going to be verbally attacked for this, but I support this petition. Our country is in danger of changing hands (again). It will only be a matter of time before there are enough Mulsims, radical or not, who will have a loud enough voice to influence matters on a national level. Then we will all find ourselves being oppressed under Sharia Law. I can tell you that I did not spend the majority of my life, defending this country, so it comes to this.

Thank you for your time and I approve of this message.

What about conversion?

That will have to be included as you can stop all immigration but what about people converting to Islam, should they be prosecuted and sent to jail, hung, deported, what should happen to those that convert to Islam?