If your city is on "lock-down", do NOT look outside.

Do your guns make you feel safer now, Armedmericans?

Originally posted by CristobalColonic
Do your guns make you feel safer now, Armedmericans?

If a known fugitive was camped outside my backyard, you're damn right I'd feel safer with protection. Does being defenseless make you feel "safe?"

reply to post by inverslyproportional

Thank you for confirming what I was already thinking. If anything then, the behavior we're seeing among the people in the pictures and videos is directly against what would be 'muscle memory' to a trained U.S. Solider. I already know that to be true among Law Enforcement and it's training as well as peer reinforcement. How many times would it take to see a fellow officer pass a muzzle line across you with a finger issue before you just took the thing from him and beat him with it? I laugh a bit while typing that but then think back to my Dad and the cops I grew up around...and it's really not a laughing matter, is it? It's not THAT far from being a true thing to see happen ...in private if nothing else.

So that really leaves a paradox here, doesn't it? One I find myself somewhat shocked to realize, we may actually have to ponder here. WERE those all actual sworn Law Enforcement and/or Guard? Even Military?

While off pondering this and looking some things up, I noticed they figured out who the guys in the jackets were and they were a Guard unit trained up for response to WMD. Under Presidential orders issued back in the Clinton years, it's an end run around Posse Comitatus too, it would seem. If it's a Nuclear, Chemical. Biological or other attack with weapons of mass destruction then all available assets from local and federal levels are cleared in to be used as needed without further issues.

How inclusive might "all available" actually BE, given what we're now talking about for a paradox between trained natural behavior vs. what we are seeing simply didn't exist among what is starting to hit me as an unexplainable number of these guys?

I wish I had more time to look into this right now...I hope others do. Something is really really wrong here and it's all from what first seemed an almost stupid little detail, IMO. It's anything but "stupid" as a detail, isn't it? It's a crucial one for what shouldn't have been possible to happen at all, isn't it?

Originally posted by CristobalColonic
Do your guns make you feel safer now, Armedmericans?

They do not make me feel any way, safe or otherwise.

They do allow me to protect myself and my family though, seeing how most of us could have held the guy at gun point, or even burned him down if required, until the LEOs showed up.

Would people not having guns saved anyone?

I seem to remember the guys using bombs, and stealing their gun from a security officer..........

Does that make you feel safer, non American?

reply to post by CristobalColonic


They not only make me feel safer but I know in the middle of winter when I can't grow a garden if I am hungry I have food on the table. Where does your food come from?

reply to post by CristobalColonic


Yes.Hope you are caught in this situation just to feel what it is like.reason.com...

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by inverslyproportional

 

Thank you for confirming what I was already thinking. If anything then, the behavior we're seeing among the people in the pictures and videos is directly against what would be 'muscle memory' to a trained U.S. Solider. I already know that to be true among Law Enforcement and it's training as well as peer reinforcement. How many times would it take to see a fellow officer pass a muzzle line across you with a finger issue before you just took the thing from him and beat him with it? I laugh a bit while typing that but then think back to my Dad and the cops I grew up around...and it's really not a laughing matter, is it? It's not THAT far from being a true thing to see happen ...in private if nothing else.

So that really leaves a paradox here, doesn't it? One I find myself somewhat shocked to realize, we may actually have to ponder here. WERE those all actual sworn Law Enforcement and/or Guard? Even Military?

While off pondering this and looking some things up, I noticed they figured out who the guys in the jackets were and they were a Guard unit trained up for response to WMD. Under Presidential orders issued back in the Clinton years, it's an end run around Posse Comitatus too, it would seem. If it's a Nuclear, Chemical. Biological or other attack with weapons of mass destruction then all available assets from local and federal levels are cleared in to be used as needed without further issues.

How inclusive might "all available" actually BE, given what we're now talking about for a paradox between trained natural behavior vs. what we are seeing simply didn't exist among what is starting to hit me as an unexplainable number of these guys?

I wish I had more time to look into this right now...I hope others do. Something is really really wrong here and it's all from what first seemed an almost stupid little detail, IMO. It's anything but "stupid" as a detail, isn't it? It's a crucial one for what shouldn't have been possible to happen at all, isn't it?

It is somthing I havent been able to hash out either, that and the muzzle control discipline.

Something has either, put the LEOs on such high alert, they feel immediate danger behind every door, or these guys are not very well trained.

If it is the intel, and they are that scared......well maybe we should all start digging a bunker under the basement, just to be safeish.

If it is poor training.........GOD help us all, these clowns are running around with military gear in suburbia, with the discipline of a 3 year old with daddys gun, waving them in the faces of everyone, and endangering the lives of many with their idiocy.

I havent found what I have been looking for on the matter yet either, but it is somthing that should be addressed before one of these cowboys gets one of their buddies killed, or worse, an innocent civie.

Time will tell, as it always comes out, and we cant have been the only folks who noticed this, or asked these questions.

Just crazy times man......

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


The loosely used term WMD has now been used for a pressure cooker. It's really not a stretch to include shotguns, rifles or pistols with the ability to carry more than a single round of ammunition in that category. Anything that is capable for causing death or bodily injury to more than one person in a short space of time seems to qualify.

This is in fact what we have seen going on not just in the USA but globally as well. Only N.B.C. weapons were considered WMD. Anything short of that was just conventional weaponry.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


What would I do? Well since you asked, I wouldn't treat the man in the window as much of a threat. Would I be wary of him? Yes.Would I do as the soldier in the pic did? No. They were searching for one suspect, whose main concern at the time would have been avoiding any authorities, not trying to engage an entire battalion in a no win situation. He proved this by fleeing from them in the first place, rather than going down in a hail of gunfire. With this being the case, I doubt they were in much danger, and they definitely had no reason to be treating a Boston neighborhood like occupied enemy territory.

And even if you discount all that, think of this. In the pic you can see that the photographer has his drapes open, making it as easy for those soldiers to see him as he saw them. They could have told he wasn't the suspect, and they obviously knew what he was holding was a camera, or else the man would be dead.

Originally posted by projectvxn
Seeing pictures like this has me very worried about the state of our country.
For the record I think law enforcement did a good job at catching the guy.
But some of the methods used should worry all Americans that things are changing, and possibly for the worse.

True, but part of this picture is that the Russian govt gave us a hot tip and this is what happened. Supposedly Israel gave us the hot tip on 9-11. So either someone is just not seeing clearly or they see clearly and are not letting a good crisis go to waste.
Either way, we have a surveillance society.

Captaintyinknots has been right this entire time. About 90% of you within this forum appear to be so ignorant and programmed for a hard emotional response rather than a logical reaction due to an AWARENESS of your constitutional right to refuse search.

"OH MY GOD BUT WHAT IF THE GUNS WERE STARING DOWN YOUR FACE MAN?!?! I DOUBT YOU'D SAY NO. IT'D BE PRETTY HARD TO SAY NO TO SOMETHING LIKE THAT. DID YOU EVEN WATCH THE VIDEOS?"

You all sound like babies. Like infant sheep afraid of the wolf. Asking questions like those, automatically make this a matter of hypothetical assumptions like Captain said and solves nothing. In addition to that, I personally see it as a questioning of someone's character. It's like I saw you ask him "DUDE YOU WOULD ACTUALLY EXERCISE YOUR RIGHTS THERE?!?! YOU'RE CRAZY!"

But even if you all weren't saying that, as I read these posts, there is a bunch of clamoring about how illegal this is and not ONE SENTENCE of proof validating that point has been given. Nor has any link of evidence been given for any illegal courses of action. As Captain said, ALLOWING yourself to be intimidated is a matter of PERSONAL CHOICE. If YOU can't handle it when a weapon is pointed at you, and that is ALL it takes in order for you to forget your rights or become willing to give them up, then I am sad to say that YOU are part of the problem that America is currently facing today.

ACTUALLY READ THE ENTIRE CONSTITUTION for yourself. BEGINNING TO END. Then read your STATE LAWS. ALL OF THEM. ENLIGHTEN YOURSELF TO THE ACTUAL WORKINGS OF YOUR STATE. BECOME AWARE of the processes that are ALLOWED to and do take place in situations like this. This way, you will not be the programmed sheep that you are and you will actually grow a backbone to REALLY "defend your rights" as so many of you claim to do or that you would do....then whine about how people were "forced" into doing things implying you would be as helpless as the person you are making the case for.

Well then you are truly helpless. You joined this site to deny ignorance yet all you do is spew it. RECKLESSLY. Then ignore/choose to bombard a person who is demanding concrete facts, with emotional hypothetical situations and assumptions with highly restricted perceptions on the topic at hand....

Disgusting.
Captaintyinknots, THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE AND APPROACHING THIS MANNER IN THE WAY THAT YOU DID.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I've read this thread in its entirety, and I concur with the points that both you and InverselyProportional make. As I watched the whole thing unfold on multiple news channels, I was listening to live scanners local to Mass. as well as keeping up with (even ahead of the media) events as they happened through the ATS thread. During the whole situation I was taking note of several things that left me disturbed.

The uncharacteristic show of force to apprehend a single individual. Absolutely unprecedented.

The unprofessional and unsafe manner in which enforcement and military personnel brandished weaponry, which I presumed to be loaded with live rounds. On FOX News there was live video at the time they had the naked man on the ground that a LEO actually waved a cameraman back with his pistol. Having been raised in a family of law abiding gun owners and having raised my children in such, such a reckless and thoughtless action would have resulted in severe and unforgettable consequences.

Civilians being marched away from their homes at gunpoint. I cannot speak as to the reason for this, but it was obvious that an elderly female certainly did not match the physical description of the suspect being hunted.

But the most telling point for me that I was witness to something far larger than what being told was when the local LEOs assumed perimeter holding positions and troops in full tactical gear and militarized troop vehicles were brought on scene. Even after the initial firefight, the explosive ordinance used was confirmed as another pressure cooker bomb. The 9000+ response was completely and utterly beyond the scope of what we viewers were being told the potential was.

I turned to my husband and said they're hunting for a nuke. My opinion was re-enforced when a short while later, a female reporter (I don't recall whether she was on FOX or CNN) was told to move back by a LEO and she asked why...what's going on?...and his reply was "if you knew, you wouldn't want to be anywhere around here." She repeated this on air. I think this was around the time the scanner was filled with commentary about a house where a rocket and tunnels were found in the basement. Since then I've heard no more on that particular subject, yet the fact that you found evidence that WMD units were deployed definitely seals it for me that this action wasn't merely an over the top manhunt for a single teen allegedly armed with a stolen pistol and homemade IEDs.

Still it is doubtful that the whole real truth will ever rear its unvarnished head. Far easier to call speculators of alternative theories nuts, point fear mongering fingers, confuse the facts with a shuck and jive dance, and point guns at those who still want to retain the right to go say "Not so fast, Uncle Sam."

Pah,

I'm not in the US, but I see this kind of seen several times a month outside my window. I have a camera but I never take a pic of it, because I know not too.

You wimpy US citizens. Pah. Whine and cry and get scared over any tiny thing, and have no common sense.


ETA:

I realize this will be falling on deaf ears, really I don't even know why I'm saying this but I will. Never mind. I deleted what I just wrote and I won't. I'll leave this, but no more.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by gladtobehere

 

Originally posted by gladtobehere
Clearly, the photographer was using his camera, was that his crime, taking a pic?

No one said there was a crime. Was the photographer arrested?

Your title is actually very good advice. If your town is on lock-down and there's a military presence in the street outside your house, it's a REALLY good idea to stay away from the doors and windows. Any movement under these circumstances is going to attract the powerful end of a weapon. It's common sense. They were looking for an armed and dangerous man. Don't give them any reason to think you might be him.

Come on bro, without reading the OP I would probably think you are talking about Gaza.

I don't understand how people here actually convincing themselves that it is OK to live in fear while there's one guy on the loss, and an army outside in pursuit of him. Like there weren't any dangerous fugitives on the run ever, robbers or simply hostile people or poor people with nothing to lose.

Such military presence on residential areas is sick, even with Israel's standards
EDIT: Actually I cannot recall such presence on the streets of Israel, like a group of people with guns in hands going in formation, attentive and alert to any movements. This would probably freak people out, but it never occurs here. The government is simply preparing the citizens mentally to accept the upcoming police state, for the sake of protecting the people

What a joke.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Here's a question for those that have a huge issue with this pic:

What would you do if the shoe was on the other foot?

You are part of a tactical team tasked with catching someone who is willing to kill a lot of people. You are clearing a street. Suddenly, you see the curtain on a window pull back. You see a shadow of a figure through it. That figure raises something to eye level, pointed right at you.

Would you assume "oh, its just some guy taking a picture", or would you think "it is possible this is the suspect. I need to have him in my sights until I know it is safe".

I mean really. Lets think for a second people.

I would think that its people in their homes.

trigger happy cops/soldiers that shoot at anything that moves is more dangerous than the so-called terrorist.

reply to post by AlphaTom


I did just as you suggested. The following is straight from the South Carolina Code of Law, the state of my residence. While SC law is NOT applicable to actions performed in Mass. I imagine that Mass. does have something similar on their books as well. Since martial law was not declared which takes precedence over and sets aside standing legal statutes, then the action that the gun pointer engaged in IS in violation of the law.

SECTION 16-23-410. Pointing firearm at any person.

It is unlawful for a person to present or point at another person a loaded or unloaded firearm.

A person who violates the provisions of this section is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction, must be fined in the discretion of the court or imprisoned not more than five years. This section must not be construed to abridge the right of self-defense or to apply to theatricals or like performances.

HISTORY: 1962 Code Section 16-141; 1952 Code Section 16-141; 1942 Code Section 1119; 1932 Code Section 1119; Cr. C. '22 Section 17; Cr. C. '12 Section 162; 1910 (26) 694; 1993 Act No. 184, Section 46.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


totally agree. It mightn't be the "popular" opinion, but if I'm in a volatile urban warfare situation and I know somewhere in the neighbourhood there's a guy who's proven he is willing and capable of committing murder and maiming innocents I'd be pretty on edge as well.. every slight movement would be getting a close examination down the sights or my rifle just in case that movement I registered in the corner of my vision was the guy lining me up, getting ready to detonate an IED or attempting to escape. If you poke your head out of a window holding something at eye-level at a heavily armed squad during lockdown you're begging for trouble. It's only common sense...

I think everyone is over-exaggerating in their own minds the capabilities of the human being.

In a real battle field situation things slow down way sooner than you'd think.

It's not like the fake movies, two guys cannot open a can of non-stop action on a whole city, it's absurd.
As the "firefight" story alludes to, things can grind to a halt rather quickly.

Point is, the Boston PD was more than well enough equipped to handle this situation alone, and if they needed assists, the state police would have been plenty.

Turning Boston into a "almost Iraq" quasi-military sweep zone is beyond messed up.
I heard DHS bought thousands of MRAPs, which is also very concerning.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Lets think for a second people.

This is ATS, thinking is typically thrown out the window if the subject is something that gets people overly emotional.

That's really all I wanted to say. That and I agree with you Captain and the others who share that opinion.

Not trying to play devils advocate, but one of the main reasons people are told not to use cameras, or video recorders, is because at first glance, it may appear to be a gun. Because when your using a handgun, you have your hands up in the same type of position. Obviously when your going to shoot a gun your going to want to aim, and when your wanting to take a picture, you have to hold it up in front of your eyes to see what your going to be taking a photo of.

But I will say that the armored vehicle, and the army-style gear is pretty ridiculous. More and more, our society is leaning towards a police state. Were getting our rights, or should I say privileges, stripped away. And once this happens the government will inevitably take advantage of it.

History tends to repeat itself, this sort of thing has happened countless times. And there are people ignorant enough to think it could NEVER happen here. The U.S.A. isn't special, it's not corruption/greed proof. People are people, and your going to have bad people out there looking for more power or wealth. Power is like any other addiction. Once you get a taste of it, your going to want more, and more, and more, until your finally satisfied. And if you cannot achieve this, people will bend the rules, and do some pretty shady things in order to get it.

It's sad to say, but our country is run by fat, greedy, corrupt, overindulged, imperialist, war mongers.