Introduction and request on behalf of family of murdered ATS member

Condolences to the family....and it sounds like we have a chief suspect.

reply to post by biowonder

Thank you for the introduction and (sad) news, Biowonder.
From some of the detail, it appears you were close to the deceased.
You have mentioned "Iran" and the "father-in-law", and your link gives an artist's sketch of at least one suspect.
To your knowledge, does the "sketch" carry any resemblance to anyone you are familiar with?
I really could not make out if the sketch was of a "white" (Caucasian) man, or...what?
Almost seems like a "hit"...
Would that be "acceptable" in a Muslim honor-killing...to contract the murder to an 'infidel'...?
I'm sure more questions will arise as the story settles in.
Thanks again - and - Welcome!

That is a shock. I recall the username, and its chilling the way he was killed. Its awful, and going over some of his posts its haunting.

RIP

Condolences

Honor killings are very nasty. One father who did it in a western country to one of his daughters, was asked, "since you knew you would be caught, and go to to jail, why?" His response "it's worth it as a warning to others in the future".

This way of thinking is so uncivilized, it is not an issue of culture, it is an issue of very radical religious ideology.
I know of another case of a young woman who converted to chritsianty in a western country only to have her head cut off by her radical Islamic father.

Killing your own children over religion or marrying or dating the wrong person, nothing could be more extreme in familial relationship, just brutal.

Mark my words, real terrorism (like in Boston) and honor killings will be part of the fuel that ends radical Islam in the future.

Originally posted by GLontra
"radical Islamic father-in-law"??

What a VERY CONVENIENT TIME for this thread, uh?

Why not in November or December 2012, or January, February or March 2013?

Why only now?

Unfortunately, you took the words right out of my mouth.

A loss of one is a loss for us all.

My deepest condolences to the family and friends.

reply to post by biowonder


I remember him.
I am really sorry for your loss,what a horrid thing to happen.
A close friend of my family was murdered,so I can relate to the senseless waste and grief you must be feeling.
RIP infiniteobserver.

Originally posted by Zack241
By the way just in case people may misunderstand, Honor Killings is not included in the Qur'an.

Muhammad made it clear in the Hadith that the penalty for leaving Islam was death.

To state that the Koran says nothing about honor killings is very misleading. All Muslims are aware that Muhammad stated in the Hadith that people who leave Islam should be killed.

To pretend otherwise makes me wonder about the motives of a poster who states a true but highly misleading fact.

Hadith Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17

Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."

Link 1
Link 2
Link 3
Link 4
Link 5

All of the links above are reputable Muslim sites and the Sahih Bukhari is considered a canonical Hadith by Sunni Muslims who make up 85% of Muslims worldwide. Some Shia Hadith also prescribe the death penalty for leaving Islam.

It is true that the Koran itself says nothing about punishing people who leave Islam in this life, although it promises punishment in the hereafter.

en.wikipedia.org...

Nonetheless, all Muslims know that killing someone who has left Islam is part of Muhammad's teachings.

My condolences to the family. It is unfortunate and regrettable that I need to correct the apparently deliberate misleading statement above, which suggests that honor killings are not part of Islam.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

This way of thinking is so uncivilized, it is not an issue of culture, it is an issue of very radical religious ideology.

It is uncivilised for sure, but it is very much an issue of culture and not religion. I very much doubt Islam says anything about family "honour".

Honour killings are part of certain cultures, regardless the religion. That is not to say everyone hailing from a region is part of that culture. Some would have outgrown such barbaric behaviour, others still subscribe to it.

Originally posted by Observor
It is uncivilised for sure, but it is very much an issue of culture and not religion. I very much doubt Islam says anything about family "honour".

Not only is someone leaving Islam punishable by death in Islam (see post above), support for it is widespread in a number of Muslim countries.

Turkey 5%
Egypt 84%
Jordan 86%
Lebanon 6%
Indonesia 30%
Pakistan 76%
Nigeria 51%

PewGlobal

killing someone who leaves Islam is also the law in many Islamic countries.

• Afghanistan – illegal (death penalty)
• Iran – illegal (death penalty)
• Malaysia – illegal in 5 of 13 states (fine, imprisonment, and flogging)
• Mauritania – illegal (death penalty)
• Nigeria – illegal in 12 of 37 states (death penalty)
• Pakistan – illegal (death penalty since 2007)
• Qatar – illegal (death penalty)
• Saudi Arabia – illegal (death penalty)
• Somalia – illegal (death penalty)
• Sudan – illegal (death penalty)
• Syria – possibly illegal
• United Arab Emirates – illegal (death penalty)
• Yemen – illegal (death penalty)

rationalwiki.org...

Muhammad in canonical Hadith made it clear that people who leave Islam should be killed. This is reflected in the laws in many Islamic countries.

To state that honor killing, in terms of killing those who leave Islam, is a cultural rather than religious phenomenon is both untrue and very misleading.

Again, my condolences to the family. It is distasteful that I need to correct misleading statements made either out of ignorance or out of a motive to deliberately mislead.

Disgusting set of events that took place, I do thank the OP for bringing it to the attention of ATS however.

My condolences to the family of the departed. Very sad indeed.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by biowonder

 

I am very sorry to hear about the loss of a fellow ATS member...

But blame Iran

ETA:

As for the lady who was previously murdered...

A large portion of ATS regularly speaks out about Iran, so do many politicians, and we don't see them getting murdered by the Iranians. This lady would be the least of Iran's concerns.

The claims that Iran may have been involved are most likely nothing but horrible propaganda.

edit on 4/25/2013 by Corruption Exposed because: (no reason given)

Maybe I read something wrong here...but from what I understand, Biowonder never blamed Iran, but rather, a crazy father. What I read was that a news article she links to raised suspicions that some believed it was because of her anti-Iranian outspokenness, but Biowonder said that the family doesn't believe that at all, but that it was the father who killed both of them, or had them killed...

It just keeps coming doesn't it? More and more bad news.

Prayers and thoughts to you and your friends and family of these victims. This is tragic and very sad.

Blessings,
Cirque

RIP InfiniteObserver.......

Such a tragedy and waste.

That was a very nice thing you did Biowonder.
I would hope my family and friends realizing how important
ATS is to me might do the same.

We are indeed a family here.

Even in all my political fights if someone hurt NEO96
or Wrabbit or Beezer or the many others I argue with
they'd have to deal with me first.

While I understand it's germane to the topic let's not derail this thread into a debate about whether honor killings are or are not supported by religion/culture.

One of our own has been murdered and this thread is in honor of his memory.

I am deeply saddened to learn of "infiniteobserver's" demise, especially that it was carried out in such a violent and cowardly way. It sounds like a "hit" to me based on the fact nothing was stolen from his apartment.

I hope the broadcast tonight brings someone forward who knows something and help bring justice for "infiniteobserver".

Our sincere condolences to the family and friends of both victims.

Springer...

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Observor
It is uncivilised for sure, but it is very much an issue of culture and not religion. I very much doubt Islam says anything about family "honour".

Not only is someone leaving Islam punishable by death in Islam (see post

edit on 25-4-2013 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)

How do you know she left Islam? Being married to a non-muslim doesn't necessarily mean leaving Islam ...im Muslim and my wife is christian....

i just feel saddened how ATS becomes more and more like GLP....people full of prejudice and brainwashed by media on how bad islam is. In the end its all about culture and the individual/ communal interpretation of religion. Even self proclaimed "Buddhists" kill (rohingya/myanmar), and both the bible or the Jewish holy book have many passages where gods tells one to kill.

that being said, yes it is a sad day, that an ATS member got murdered, but i find it appaling how the OP jumped to the conclusion/ indicated of Ali being the murderer. What happened to innocent until proven otherwise? I smell something deeply fishy about this case.

USA.....get ready for roller coaster ride against the hordes of the barbaric muslims

The family has asked that I provide the following video to the ATS community. This video was taken Christmas 2011 and shows Coty opening "How to Survive the End of the World as We Know It", his number one amazon wishlist for the year. It also shows an excited Gelareh experiecing her first and last Christmas. Would it be possible to have a moderator add it to the orginal post? It says that I need to wait 3 hours before I can edit the post again.

www.youtube.com...

Also to those that question the timing of the information. The interview being broadcast tonight was conducted 2-3 weeks before the Boston bombings and was slated to air at the end of April irregaurdless of any current events.

I am truly sorry to hear about Mr Beaver's death and my sympathy's go to his loved one's, This is not a place for trial but from the information you have provided I believe it fit's the profile of a type of crime called an honor killing many of which currently plague the Islamic community of Britain and are mostly found in the Pakistani community but have also spread throughout the Islamic population of other ethnicity's in the UK, as they have imported this mindset with them it is also likely that it also occur's regularly in the states, here is a tragic case that we in the UK are all to familiar with, this was just a normal kid wanting to express herself but unfortunately for her her parent's were Traditionalists whom felt she dis honored them.
en.wikipedia.org...
It does actually bring a tear to my eye, they were blessed with a beautiful daughter and did this to her.
This born in mind with the information you have provided would suggest either a friend/relative of the prime suspect or a hired killer contracted by the prime suspect is the most likely culprit however all avenues must also be checked on as the wife of Mr beaver may also have been promised in marriage as is culturally normal for peoples from ethnic Islamic community's and the family of the arranged spouse may also have felt dis honored however this would have had to be within a fairly close time frame to the marriage.