Destroying the ego

Originally posted by Bluesma
The self concept is formed by the feedback between self and exterior.
The less interaction between self and other, the less conception there is.

I have no idea where you get the "poor" self concept idea, but perhaps it is valid and can happen.
In my own experience, I did not form any idea of myself as being at fault or bad because there was no conception that there was anything "wrong" happening to be at fault for!

I did not know what being "good" was, so of course there was no conception that I was "bad" either.

The poor self image idea comes from feedback. Examples- having a person around who says "things are bad", "you are bad". An idea of bad and good forms in mind.

Without that, there is only the bodily draw towards pleasure and pain, which happens without thought.
The childs body will rech for thigns that it has experienced as pleasurable, or flinch away from thigns they ahve experienced as painful,

But there will be no mental conscious judgement that the thing percieved is good, or bad.
If you asked the child why their hand reached or flinched, they will have no idea why.

At that stage, the concept of self is limited to the percepion of a physical envelope, as the experiences of contact, allow it to recognize a skin boundry which separates self and not self.

edit on 28-4-2013 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)

A child who reaches for pleasure by approaching it's mother and is pushed away is neglected, it comes to the conclusion that it is bad. It did not realize the mother did not know how to receive love - deep down it assumes it is bad - it is a self image that is not true. Assumptions are made of ourselves from how we are treated but it is not really a refection of what we truly are. Ideas are formed about our self from the environment we are in and the way we are treated but are you what they believe you are?
When there is a sudden lifting from feeling bad to realizing it was not you, it can have a devastating effect- it can start a avalanche of 'well if that's not true, what else is not true?' It destroys every thing.

Originally posted by InTheLight

I'm not "trying" to find out who I am right now, as I am well aware of who I am right at this moment; it's more of a search for a higher self or purpose rather than accepting self/ego as it is at the moment. It's difficult to explain precisely. However, I don't want to limit myself as to who I may become tomorrow and the next day and the next because each day we have another opportunity to learn and spread our wings and take flight and become a butterfly.

edit on 28-4-2013 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)

If what you say is true - then I implore you to reconsider and give this video a chance - at the end of the video the lady gets what she came for - it is beautiful.

reply to post by openlocks


Thank you for that story, it was enjoyable. But the emperor, in my eyes, was following everyone else's way, and ultimately the monk's way.

Originally posted by Bluesma

I never claimed passivity was not a challenge!

That is why I said it is sometimes very helpful to elist the aid of another in discovering tht experience. In trusing another individual, a deity, a force, a religion, a group or club, all vehicles for systems of thought, which can be integrated after the state of passivity.

I am having trouble following the finer points of your perception of this subject. It sounds like you have given it quite a lot of thought.

As to enlisting help, I cannot imagine doing it on my own, it would be like trying to pull myself up by my own shoe straps.

Originally posted by Bluesma

If this is done later in life, it can be more challenging, have more resistance, due to the accumulation of experiences and formation of self concept. Though some seem to "stick" more than others. Some beliefs and views allow for more flexibility than others.

As we grow older, many experiences in life have served to curb and refine the ego, we are less beholden to the passions and attachments, so from that point of view I think resistance to the ego challenge is somewhat diminished. However, where we may be less driven by desires, we are also less zealous in our aspirations, so perhaps the gains are cancelled out by the losses?

reply to post by Itisnowagain


It just has no interest or practical use for me to watch others teach others how to find something others want you to find.

Originally posted by InTheLight
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

It just has no interest or practical use for me to watch others teach others how to find something others want you to find.

Seeing some 'thing' is the human condition.

The video is not going to show you anything.
There is nothing to find.

With the realization of this - the seeking ends - satisfaction guaranteed.

Originally posted by mysticnoon

Originally posted by Bluesma

I never claimed passivity was not a challenge!

That is why I said it is sometimes very helpful to elist the aid of another in discovering tht experience. In trusing another individual, a deity, a force, a religion, a group or club, all vehicles for systems of thought, which can be integrated after the state of passivity.

I am having trouble following the finer points of your perception of this subject. It sounds like you have given it quite a lot of thought.

As to enlisting help, I cannot imagine doing it on my own, it would be like trying to pull myself up by my own shoe straps.

Originally posted by Bluesma

If this is done later in life, it can be more challenging, have more resistance, due to the accumulation of experiences and formation of self concept. Though some seem to "stick" more than others. Some beliefs and views allow for more flexibility than others.

As we grow older, many experiences in life have served to curb and refine the ego, we are less beholden to the passions and attachments, so from that point of view I think resistance to the ego challenge is somewhat diminished. However, where we may be less driven by desires, we are also less zealous in our aspirations, so perhaps the gains are cancelled out by the losses?

I agree, from experience, with your last paragraph, in part, as the more time I spent experiencing life with myself/ego, as well as searching for meaning and questioning my desires, choices, etc. (self-awareness) then it appears to me to be a clearer path of choices ahead, based upon knowledge of myself/ego. However, my aspirations have not lessened but increased, and so has my bucket list.

I must apologize... I had thought some of you were seeking answers, but as this discussion evolves it seems you already know what you are looking for. No point to continue on.

Peace.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by InTheLight
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

It just has no interest or practical use for me to watch others teach others how to find something others want you to find.

Seeing some 'thing' is the human condition.
The video is not going to show you anything.
There is nothing to find.

For me there is the search for new adventures, intelligent discussion with good company, sitting watching a movie with my hubby bundled up together in a blanket, the wonders of the world to view (to find), and more joy whether that be from smelling a fragrant red rose, to painting the Yukon landscape, or to simply enjoy the feeling of the sun on my face, which all feeds my well being, which is connected to myself, my ego. So, for me, it's a balance of satiating my whole self with what I have come to know and searching for what I do not yet know will enhance my whole self. It is, of course, more complicated that that, but I'm not giving a lecture on psychology here.

Originally posted by openlocks
I must apologize... I had thought some of you were seeking answers, but as this discussion evolves it seems you already know what you are looking for. No point to continue on.

Peace.

I would think the point to continue on would be to share with everyone your philosophies and perhaps there are silent readers that you are indeed helping them to see a path where they may venture to seek answers.

reply to post by InTheLight


Sure, but I just don't see why some people on this site are so argumentative. Especially concerning these topics. It is as if people are talking to and over each other, not with each other. Thus there can be no understanding. If I wanted to merely pontificate upon and expound "philosophies" I would post here more often. Some subjects I do enjoy debating with others, as long as we are all open and curious. But I do not enjoy having people respond with smug remarks, with what seems no other motive than to argue and create conflict. I thought you were looking for answers, but you don't want anyone else's answers (even when they are trying to help you find your own answers)... so?

Have a good day.

Originally posted by InTheLight

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by InTheLight
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

It just has no interest or practical use for me to watch others teach others how to find something others want you to find.

Seeing some 'thing' is the human condition.
The video is not going to show you anything.
There is nothing to find.

For me there is the search for new adventures, intelligent discussion with good company, sitting watching a movie with my hubby bundled up together in a blanket, the wonders of the world to view (to find), and more joy whether that be from smelling a fragrant red rose, to painting the Yukon landscape, or to simply enjoy the feeling of the sun on my face, which all feeds my well being, which is connected to myself, my ego. So, for me, it's a balance of satiating my whole self with what I have come to know and searching for what I do not yet know will enhance my whole self. It is, of course, more complicated that that, but I'm not giving a lecture on psychology here.

The wonder of being is everywhere - it is not in just chocolate flavoured moments.
It is ever present.
It is the lover that will never leave.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain


A child who reaches for pleasure by approaching it's mother and is pushed away is neglected, it comes to the conclusion that it is bad. It did not realize the mother did not know how to receive love - deep down it assumes it is bad - it is a self image that is not true. Assumptions are made of ourselves from how we are treated but it is not really a refection of what we truly are. Ideas are formed about our self from the environment we are in and the way we are treated but are you what they believe you are?
When there is a sudden lifting from feeling bad to realizing it was not you, it can have a devastating effect- it can start a avalanche of 'well if that's not true, what else is not true?' It destroys every thing.

Let's be clear on what I refered to- neglect and isolation, lack of feedback- not abuse, not negative feedback.
We're talking indifference, ignoring, no feedback or response.

-The child will reach for the mother if the child has experienced contact with the mother as pleasurable.
(so first we must rack up that information feedback to get that movement ).

If the child reaches towards the mother and the mother does not react in any way, does not show any rejection nor acceptation, no acknowledgement of the childs existence, how does the child come to mental conclusion that he/she is "bad"?

Where does this judgement arise? What are the critieria? Where did that critieria come from?
Unless there is another person in the environment to feed the child ideas of good and evil, they have no structure from which to make such a mental conclusion.

reply to post by Bluesma

Originally posted by Bluesma
If the child reaches towards the mother and the mother does not react in any way, does not show any rejection nor acceptation, no acknowledgement of the childs existence, how does the child come to mental conclusion that he/she is "bad"?

A child who reaches for pleasure by approaching it's mother and is pushed away is neglected, it comes to the conclusion that it is bad.

Do you see where it says 'is pushed away'? The mother rejects the child - it negates it. The child is full of love and has no where to direct it. It feels isolated and neglected. It feels bad.

Originally posted by openlocks
reply to post by InTheLight

 

Sure, but I just don't see why some people on this site are so argumentative. Especially concerning these topics. It is as if people are talking to and over each other, not with each other. Thus there can be no understanding. If I wanted to merely pontificate upon and expound "philosophies" I would post here more often. Some subjects I do enjoy debating with others, as long as we are all open and curious. But I do not enjoy having people respond with smug remarks, with what seems no other motive than to argue and create conflict. I thought you were looking for answers, but you don't want anyone else's answers (even when they are trying to help you find your own answers)... so?

Have a good day.

I don't interpret anyone on this thread as being argumentative, but rather an intelligent exchange of ideas. Before assuming someone needs help, why not ask them first?

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Indeed, and your list (desires, needs) will differ from mine, and the next person, so then will our search, and also the answers.

Originally posted by InTheLight
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Indeed, and your list (desires, needs) will differ from mine, and the next person, so then will our search, and also the answers.

I have no such list. I have all there is.
The emptiness is full.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by InTheLight
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Indeed, and your list (desires, needs) will differ from mine, and the next person, so then will our search, and also the answers.

I have no such list. I have all there is.
The emptiness is full.

edit on 28-4-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Who is this lover that will never leave?

Originally posted by mysticnoon
I am having trouble following the finer points of your perception of this subject. It sounds like you have given it quite a lot of thought.
As to enlisting help, I cannot imagine doing it on my own, it would be like trying to pull myself up by my own shoe straps.

Yes. That was my original assertion in the OP of this thread. That using gurus, teachers, examples, religions, philosophies, whatever, is a useful tool in transforming the ego.

I only suggested that it might be even more effective and enjoyeable if one takes care to choose consciously which person, or group they decide to undertake this process with. They shall be extremely influencial in the formation of your "new" ego (or structure of it), so discernment is good.

Some people or groups, (with totally good intentions and beliefs that what they have to offer is "the TRUTH"), can use dishonest tactics to get a person into this state without them having consciously chosen it and consenting.

This begins with telling the person they have something "wrong" with them- they are bad, they are in need, they need rescuing, they need to free themself from the demon inside that is possessing them.

Some will call it a demon, or spirit, a more currently popular term is "ego". Attempt to inspire guilt has always been a tool in this manipulation- being called a "sinner" used to be used, but now "egotistical", or "argumentative" or "contrary" or "hostile" is more often used now, to get the person to open up and allow the re-programming.

As we grow older, many experiences in life have served to curb and refine the ego, we are less beholden to the passions and attachments, so from that point of view I think resistance to the ego challenge is somewhat diminished. However, where we may be less driven by desires, we are also less zealous in our aspirations, so perhaps the gains are cancelled out by the losses?

Perhaps. I have observed that some deeper structures of ego can harden with time and become more and more difficult to remove. Like base concepts about the nature of reality- if one has had a belief, since childhood, that fairies do not exist, then changing that perception at 35 can be more difficult than say, to get a 12 year old to adopt that perception.

Peole who were indoctrinated into a religion sicne childhood seem to find it harder to let go of the concept of that diety later in age, then earlier.

Not only because the brain becomes hardened to change, but also because there is a longer time period, and more experiences collected, that indicate no fairies exist.

Originally posted by InTheLight

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by InTheLight
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Indeed, and your list (desires, needs) will differ from mine, and the next person, so then will our search, and also the answers.

I have no such list. I have all there is.
The emptiness is full.

edit on 28-4-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Who is this lover that will never leave?

Being.