Destroying the ego

Originally posted by Bluesma

Yes. That was my original assertion in the OP of this thread. That using gurus, teachers, examples, religions, philosophies, whatever, is a useful tool in transforming the ego.

I only suggested that it might be even more effective and enjoyeable if one takes care to choose consciously which person, or group they decide to undertake this process with. They shall be extremely influencial in the formation of your "new" ego (or structure of it), so discernment is good.

If you are looking for someone who knows the truth - how could you possibly know who to trust?

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by Bluesma

Yes. That was my original assertion in the OP of this thread. That using gurus, teachers, examples, religions, philosophies, whatever, is a useful tool in transforming the ego.

I only suggested that it might be even more effective and enjoyeable if one takes care to choose consciously which person, or group they decide to undertake this process with. They shall be extremely influencial in the formation of your "new" ego (or structure of it), so discernment is good.

If you are looking for someone who knows the truth - how could you possibly know who to trust?

Why look for someone else's truth, when your truth is right in front of you?

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Do you see where it says 'is pushed away'? The mother rejects the child - it negates it. The child is full of love and has no where to direct it. It feels isolated and neglected. It feels bad

Do you see where I wrote "no response" -no acknowledgement of the childs existence?

A person cannot push away another person if it is ignoring it and not acknowledging it's existence.
You are making my point for me- feedback (whether it be positive or negative) is what forms the concept of self.

Yes, negative feedback forms a negative self image, positive feedback forms a positive self image. I'll agree with you on that point.

No feedback results in no mental construction of self beyond a physical boundry.

If no contact is available to make self - other friction known, the consciousness will not attach with the body nor the mind, and will leave it.

Some studies illustrate this well, like Spitz's work-
History Module: The Devastating Effects of Isolation on Social Behaviour
Reactive Attachment Disorder

We all know of the orphanage in which the babies had no contact, and they died, despite having all the necessities for survival (food, water, warmth).

The chidlren that were able to experience contact, (gripping to something or someone, even if it was a non-living mannequin, a tree, or an animal) did not physically degrade and die.
Though they may remain mute all their life (as in the case of Victor).

To use linear language requires a separation of self/other perception in mind.

Kids that are "pushed away" have contact, AND response of some sort from the thing they are in contact with. They are able to form a mental concept of self for consciousness to attach to.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
[
If you are looking for someone who knows the truth - how could you possibly know who to trust?

Looking for someone who knows the truth?
Are you still believing there IS "A Truth"??


I refer to choosing a truth.... a structure of thought, idea, values, that will form your perception, and experience.

You can tell which ones you would like to have by looking at the results they have given others- is the person you are considering being seeded by happy? Do they have a view and response to the world that you too, would like to have and experience?

That is what gives you an idea of what their particular beliefs, ideas, values, perceptions will create for YOU if you choose it.

And that is very individual! We don't all aspire to the same types of experiences!

reply to post by Bluesma


Is a child who is neglected of love going to feel good?

Originally posted by Bluesma

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
[
If you are looking for someone who knows the truth - how could you possibly know who to trust?

Looking for someone who knows the truth?
Are you still believing there IS "A Truth"??


I refer to choosing a truth.... a structure of thought, idea, values, that will form your perception, and experience.

You can tell which ones you would like to have by looking at the results they have given others- is the person you are considering being seeded by happy? Do they have a view and response to the world that you too, would like to have and experience?

That is what gives you an idea of what their particular beliefs, ideas, values, perceptions will create for YOU if you choose it.

And that is very individual! We don't all aspire to the same types of experiences!

It was a reply to someone else - it was answering their point.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by Bluesma

Yes. That was my original assertion in the OP of this thread. That using gurus, teachers, examples, religions, philosophies, whatever, is a useful tool in transforming the ego.

I only suggested that it might be even more effective and enjoyeable if one takes care to choose consciously which person, or group they decide to undertake this process with. They shall be extremely influencial in the formation of your "new" ego (or structure of it), so discernment is good.

If you are looking for someone who knows the truth - how could you possibly know who to trust?

I am not seeking a guru who can tell me show me the way or truth. I would not allow any belief system to be implanted into me.

If you are looking for someone who knows the truth - how could you possibly know who to trust?

Originally posted by InTheLight

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by Bluesma

Yes. That was my original assertion in the OP of this thread. That using gurus, teachers, examples, religions, philosophies, whatever, is a useful tool in transforming the ego.

I only suggested that it might be even more effective and enjoyeable if one takes care to choose consciously which person, or group they decide to undertake this process with. They shall be extremely influencial in the formation of your "new" ego (or structure of it), so discernment is good.

If you are looking for someone who knows the truth - how could you possibly know who to trust?

Why look for someone else's truth, when your truth is right in front of you?

This is precisely why some of us higher advanced spiritual individuals who know the answer even in this topic wont interfere but to try & guide by helping others see their own truth, everyone knows they just need to open their eyes.

Mega.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Bluesma

 

Is a child who is neglected of love going to feel good? [

You'd have to be more specific on what you mean by "love".

If the child has had no indication of emotional attachment by another, but HAS had acknowledgement of existence
(like the one pushed away) they will experience discomfort, and will mentally associate the discomfort with "self".

If the child does not recieve indication of emotional attachment, nor any other acknowledgement of their existence, they will feel discomfort, but it will be an experience, with no association to a self, as there is no mental self.

The body, however, with it's built in systems, will associate the mother with discomfort, and (if the pushing away happens repeatedly) will develop a reflex of repulsion in response to the mother.
But again, if you ask the child why it moves away or does not reach for the mother, they will not know why.

reply to post by Bluesma


Discomfort is not love.
Discomfort feels bad.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
It was a reply to someone else - it was answering their point.

No, look again. It was a response to me abd what I said.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain


I am not seeking a guru who can tell me show me the way. I would not allow any belief system to be implanted into me.

I will admit my own skepticism that you have not been implanted at all- you are using language. Someone implanted that into you, just for starters. But I will respect your feeling on that, and also that you are not "looking for" a guru.

I think you make it a clear point that you wish to remain empty of as much content as possible, so that very little attaches and become a "person" that anyone can have an opinion about, have feelings for, like or dislike, agree with or disagree with. You have stated that this is a source of discomfort for you.

My assertion was more of interest to people who liek and enjoy social contact with others, and enjoy living, and creating experiences. Creation sometimes is not possible without the grain of "other" to supplement it and add new elements. Nothing wrong with masturbation, be it mental or physical!

_but likewise, I see nothing wrong with creative process being enjoyed between consenting minds either.
And that was what my OP was supportive of.

reply to post by Bluesma


My apologies - it was you who said that you must be discerning when choosing the right guru or group'

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by Bluesma

Yes. That was my original assertion in the OP of this thread. That using gurus, teachers, examples, religions, philosophies, whatever, is a useful tool in transforming the ego.

I only suggested that it might be even more effective and enjoyeable if one takes care to choose consciously which person, or group they decide to undertake this process with. They shall be extremely influencial in the formation of your "new" ego (or structure of it), so discernment is good.

I am not sure how anyone could discern who can be trusted.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Bluesma

 

Discomfort is not love.
Discomfort feels bad.

It seems you are not able to grasp what I said.

Discomfort is an experience. If you have no mental self concept, it just "is".


But love is never discomfort?
I guess you are not with a partner...?

For sometimes, who or what my partner does or is, makes me uncomfortable- and yet, weird, I still experience love between us. (and vice versa)

This is one of the properties of mind- to be able to retain an experience beyond the reflexes of the body.

Originally posted by Bluesma


I think you make it a clear point that you wish to remain empty of as much content as possible, so that very little attaches and become a "person" that anyone can have an opinion about, have feelings for, like or dislike, agree with or disagree with. You have stated that this is a source of discomfort for you.

I have not stated anything of the sort. - there is no discomfort here.
People have many, many opinions - I have noticed.

My assertion was more of interest to people who liek and enjoy social contact with others, and enjoy living, and creating experiences. Creation sometimes is not possible without the grain of "other" to supplement it and add new elements. Nothing wrong with masturbation, be it mental or physical!

The emptiness is full. Yet you believe the emptiness is just empty - it is just empty of me.

reply to post by MegaSpace


I wouldn't put it down to being spiritually superior, per se, because to me this 'knowing' your truth (facing, understanding then accepting your ego, ID and superego and all the rest of the mish mosh these create, plus throw in socialization programming, etc.) encompasses the whole being, as well as those other beings you choose to go through life with. Those people in your life are beside you on the same path and can also offer you another perspective to your ever changing truth; perhaps to realize a universal truth you both experience along the way.

More wise quotes:

The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.
Richard Feynman

Only your real friends will tell you when your face is dirty. ~Sicilian Proverb

Originally posted by Bluesma

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Bluesma

 

Discomfort is not love.
Discomfort feels bad.

It seems you are not able to grasp what I said.

Discomfort is an experience. If you have no mental self concept, it just "is".

Discomfort feels uncomfortable - it is dis ease. It is not a passing thing - it is deep. The discomfort is always seeking comfort. When ease and comfort and found then the seeking ends. Satisfaction guaranteed, always and forever..

But love is never discomfort?
I guess you are not with a partner...?

That is conditional love. It is not true love - unconditional.
Find the perfect lover that will never leave or disappoint and the whole world becomes glorious..

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
I have not stated anything of the sort. - there is no discomfort here.
People have many, many opinions - I have noticed.

You repeat it all the time, and you repeated it at the bottom of this post.
You will not acknowledge a "me", an individual personality, ever.
I can copy and paste the many statements in your posts that claim "ego/individuality, is the source of pain/suffering."

-But I have been through this with you and know your answer will be- this was just written, no person wrote it, not me, for there is no me."

It's like a child who covers their eyes, and thinks that they are suddenly invisible.

The emptiness is full. Yet you believe the emptiness is just empty - it is just empty of me.

It is not "full" if you have been eliminated from it. "All" includes self, it is not "the opposite of Self".

Originally posted by InTheLight
reply to post by MegaSpace

 

I wouldn't put it down to being spiritually superior, per se, because to me this 'knowing' your truth (facing, understanding then accepting your ego, ID and superego and all the rest of the mish mosh these create, plus throw in socialization programming, etc.) encompasses the whole being, as well as those other beings you choose to go through life with. Those people in your life are beside you on the same path and can also offer you another perspective to your ever changing truth; perhaps to realize a universal truth you both experience along the way.

More wise quotes:

The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.
Richard Feynman

Only your real friends will tell you when your face is dirty. ~Sicilian Proverb

But you hardly know me let alone personally, i do sincerely like to guide or hint & allow others to see their own truth, im sincerely not here to compete or to preach. You see, i understand that others may receive the knowledge from others with mere words etc BUT they wont be grasping the insight/knowledge in their own way. It's important they grasp it in their own way either by them self's or through guidance even by hint.

Peace.

Originally posted by Bluesma

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
I have not stated anything of the sort. - there is no discomfort here.
People have many, many opinions - I have noticed.

You repeat it all the time, and you repeated it at the bottom of this post.
You will not acknowledge a "me", an individual personality, ever.
I can copy and paste the many statements in your posts that claim "ego/individuality, is the source of pain/suffering."

-But I have been through this with you and know your answer will be- this was just written, no person wrote it, not me, for there is no me."

The emptiness is full. Yet you believe the emptiness is just empty - it is just empty of me.

It is not "full" if you have been eliminated from it. "All" includes self, it is not "the opposite of Self".

Where do I say I have discomfort?

There is no 'me' in reality - me is a story playing - it is the belief in that story which causes the suffering.
There is only ever what is happening - can you find anything else?

Originally posted by Angle
It's not destroying ego, it's to undo yourself of its influences.

edit on 23-4-2013 by Angle because: (no reason given)

Interesting quote there! can you be specific with what kind of influences?

reply to post by MegaSpace


I wasn't directing any particular comment to you, or anyone else. I am only sharing my opinion on this complex and difficult topic. Any quotes I post, are quotes that seem wise to me, that is, to me.

Peace to you too.