Tell me about Magick.

Originally posted by thelongjourney
Not magick, just confirmation bias:
en.wikipedia.org...

Plus again, if your not materialistic thats fine - why not win the $1 million for charity? Think of how much good you could do. Seems odd that all these magick practitioners are out there and yet no one has even bothered applying.

First of all, that prize is no longer being offered.

It's funny you mention confirmation bias and Randi's million dollar challenge in the same post. They never looked for magic, they only looked for fraud, and as a result, that's all the found. Seek and ye shall find. That whole million dollar publicity stunt reeks of confirmation bias.

Originally posted by onequestion
It's all alchemy. As another poster above me said pretty well it's all about focus, a lot of people use their focus ritualistically but you can manifest through focus alone.

Be careful this is not to be toyed with. Don't trust anyone. Learn how to interpret your own personal symbolism and discover your own personal magic through journeying.

Right on the money... In that Alchemy is concerned with transformation not materialisation.

I'd also like to add: Never dabble. Either all-in or not at all.

Originally posted by Blarneystoner

I'd also like to add: Never dabble. Either all-in or not at all.

Could you elaborate on this any?

I have heard it many different ways, but mostly the same context.

(I am just tying to learn more of what it is, not necessarily jump in. )

Originally posted by Bybyots
reply to post by network dude

 

Network dudeman?

So what do you think, here at the end of the week? I thought this was a pretty good thread and was wondering if you found what you were looking for; a little or a Lot?

I got much more than I hoped for. I initially expected to get a few generic definitions, but what I have so far will take me weeks to process. It's fantastic information and exactly what I hoped to find. (which is always good)


I hope everyone can see and understands my gratitude for the knowledge passed in this thread. This is why I love ATS.

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by Blarneystoner

I'd also like to add: Never dabble. Either all-in or not at all.

Could you elaborate on this any?

I have heard it many different ways, but mostly the same context.

(I am just tying to learn more of what it is, not necessarily jump in. )

Well... as others have pointed out here, there are various forms of "magik". Your best bet is to practice the intrinsic form as Onequestion suggested above.

"Learn how to interpret your own personal symbolism and discover your own personal magic through journeying."

Allow yourself to see the symbolism presented to you in whatever form it takes. Some are provided answers through natural means like seeing a white dove just at the right moment. Others see signs via artificial means such as hearing a song on the radio at the right time. Some are tuned in to both forms.

For example, I was just speaking to someone about this very subject and last evening I started reading a book called "The Way of the Wizard" by Deepak Chopra. Then I see this thread today... I interpret this as a sign I should continue to explore on the path I've started down.

Other forms of "magik" require mediums and can have undesired consquences. (think of waves rippling on water. The water is the medium by which the waves are propagated). To me.... and I may be wrong.... those types of magick are contrived and often bring about some form of retribution or "payback". Just like the law of physics that states energy is neither created or destroyed, only transformed. Practicing contrived magik borrows energy form other sources and will eventually need to be re-paid.

The expression, "never dabble" simply means that you should understand completely what you are doing before you start. A good example might be fooling around with a Ouija board.... most don't have a clue what they are actually doing before it's too late.....

The true nature of the Alchemist is transformation....

“The secrets of alchemy exist to transform mortals from a state of suffering and ignorance to a state of enlightenment and bliss.”

~Deepak Chopra "The Way of the Wizard"

Yea i agree with Blarneystoner don't just go half cocked and jump on a Ouija board with out knowing i did this and trust me it wasn't fun...true story that i have told before on here but is worth mention on this thread, anyway i was over two friends of mines house a married couple and the husband went to sleep and and me and his wife started messing with a Ouija board.....

Anyway after we played with the Ouija board we stepped out for a second to grab something from 7-11(a local convenience shop) while her husband was still asleep anyway when we got back to her apartment the whole thing was on FIRE i tired to run in the house to get up stairs to wake her husband but the smoke overwhelmed me anyway we were able to throw rocks at his window wake him up and he jumped from the window down to the ground and we were able to get there three dogs out of the house unharmed after the fire marshal did his report he said it was faulty wiring near the refrigerator.... WHAT EVER i'm never going to mess with a Ouija board again so be warned my man....

reply to post by King Seesar


I have heard enough stories about that to not knock on that door. While I don't "believe" in that stuff, I respect that I very well could be wrong and don't want to find out the hard way. Best to let sleeping dogs lie.

I may already be on the way with this as I have always thought about how my actions will be affected by what I call Karma. I try to do right whenever possible to keep the positive stuff on my side. It doesn't always work, but having few regrets and a great family, I guess things have gone as well as I deserve if not much better.

The subject seems so hard to put into words, I am grateful for everyone's patience in explaining in such detail.

reply to post by Blarneystoner


Words of wisdom Blarney.

I cant say it enough and i really mean it. Anyone who knows, knows.

THIS IS NOT A GAME, DO NOT TOY WITH MAGICK.

You have to know your #. You can really unleash some nasty things on yourself. Thats why you have to know yourself first.

But you can also find gold and the land of flowing milk and honey.

But please, find someone who knows what their talking about and learn everything first. Learn yourself. I find it helps to choose a higher power and subscribe to a certain mythology and work your magick within that myth or story. It really helps you stay focusd and give your solid ground to stand on.

I say this for everyone who is thinking about alchemy. Anyone who may wish to be initiates.

I learned on my own the hard way for years before i found teachers, it wasn't easy.

Originally posted by onequestion
THIS IS NOT A GAME, DO NOT TOY WITH MAGICK.

You say that like magic isn't something people already use anyways.

You don't need to learn how to use magic. You use it every day. What you need to learn is to recognize when and how you use it.

If someone is prone to screwing themselves over with magic, the odds are they are already screwing themselves over with those same principles in their non magical lives anyways.

I say toy away! Something bad happens, you learn how to cope with it and not to do it again.

reply to post by The Cusp


Thats true. But then again it depends on what kind of magick your playing with.

But youre right in a way. i learned the hard way, but i was playing with some serious stuff that i shouldnt have been playing with.

But for what your saying, yeah thats true to

reply to post by SWENmordin


Thank you, I think that is one of the most powerful quotes floating about today.
And you are so correct.

Magick is about engagement. It is about being immersed in the magic of the world in all of its wonders. Knowing that one is connected to it all in this reflection we call a body. Engagement, such an appropriate word.

reply to post by thelongjourney


Confirmation Bias is something to understand in this regards, I agree with that point. One does shape their reality by confirmation bias to an extent. Nothing wrong with that since quantum physics seems to agree that Observing and measuring an object (or idea) AFFECTS the said object.

But you can believe as you wish, and follow that path. There is room for diversity of thought within my personal paradigm.

As far as the contest , you are mistaken to believe I Want to Be a Houdini, Blaine or Aliester Crowley for that matter, and need to prove to anyone beyond myself mine own abilities and limitations. I answer only to myself in this regard, and you may think that a cop out, but this is my WILL.

When you say "bothered applying" it sounds like we all should have been applying ourselves to Things Others Want,,, well,, NO. I applyed myself and my Art unto myself,,, as selfish as that may sound, unless you know something about personal alchemy and transformation. I KNOW MYSELF rather well, both psychologically,paranormal wise; and in regards to HOW I practice Magick, physically and spiritually..

Let's just say I chose LOVE instead of Money when I did Rites such as you wish to see. ( I really should make a thread about that one someday) And have no regrets given how it all turned out.

Worked for me, you may call it Confirmation Bias,, and that is OK for you. I don't need anyone's confirmations to inflate my Ego, nor have I ever said I was interested in ''Giving to Charity" as harsh as that may sound, but it is your desire, not mine.

Also, for me and Everyone else here,, will you define "Real".
That might put us both on level ground to discuss more in this regards.
thanks

From the beginning there were rules.
And God pretended to be void. That caused practitioners of craft magic to delude themselves into their own rules and lack thereof. But in time... as it got closer to the end... the things practitioners ignored were coming out of the crafts leaving them speechless and entreating them to simplicity and comedy.
The devil delighted in the practitioner's crafts and in the hurt it caused.
Now it seems the devil could not accomplish his endeavor to make God feel regret about his creation and about the contribution men and women have added one their own without his intervention.
The devil failed and the followers too.
Welcome to the saying I love it when a plan comes together.
And divinity is revealed. I hope you have eyes and ears. Wisdom doesn't compare to the patience and plan of God. It fell to together at the end of the calendrical marker.
Beware of theology.

Originally posted by The Cusp

Originally posted by thelongjourney
Not magick, just confirmation bias:
en.wikipedia.org...

Plus again, if your not materialistic thats fine - why not win the $1 million for charity? Think of how much good you could do. Seems odd that all these magick practitioners are out there and yet no one has even bothered applying.

First of all, that prize is no longer being offered.

It's funny you mention confirmation bias and Randi's million dollar challenge in the same post. They never looked for magic, they only looked for fraud, and as a result, that's all the found. Seek and ye shall find. That whole million dollar publicity stunt reeks of confirmation bias.

Yeah, you really don't understand how science works. The million dollar prize required anyone claiming to have a paranormal ability (IE, a "magick practitioner" would be included in that) to

(1) Clearly state what they can do
and
(2) Do it

In terms that both the claimant and the RANDI foundation JOINTLY agreed to. That you think that is confirmation bias shows you have no idea what the term really even means. By the way, if the $1 million dollar prize is no longer offered, there are dozens of them ranging from $10k to $50k and higher offered by local and regional skeptic groups that have a much lower proof threshold than the the $1 million prize.

Guess how many prizes have been awarded?

0.

I wonder why? I'm sure it has nothing to do with things like magick not being real...

Originally posted by EarthCitizen23
Confirmation Bias is something to understand in this regards, I agree with that point. One does shape their reality by confirmation bias to an extent. Nothing wrong with that since quantum physics seems to agree that Observing and measuring an object (or idea) AFFECTS the said object.

I'm glad your open to the point but it has nothing to do with the third sentence here. Confirmation bias means that you want to believe in magick, and so when something happens that you like you register it as a "hit" and ignore all rational reasons for it - you also dismiss/ignore all the "misses." Its what humans do when they want to believe something without evidence.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen23
But you can believe as you wish, and follow that path. There is room for diversity of thought within my personal paradigm.

How good to hear. Unfortunately magick either exists or doesn't - and so far no evidence in this thread has been offered. Indeed, the true believers here have only bashed me and called me names for suggesting otherwise.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen23
As far as the contest , you are mistaken to believe I Want to Be a Houdini, Blaine or Aliester Crowley for that matter, and need to prove to anyone beyond myself mine own abilities and limitations. I answer only to myself in this regard, and you may think that a cop out, but this is my WILL.

Of course, of course. Even though there is just free money sitting there for you to take - if not from the $1 million prize as I said, then from countless other skeptic groups who would be more than willing to pay for proof of magick. But I guess as usual all the people with this power just cant be bothered to provide a demonstration, they'd rather leave the money on the table.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen23

Let's just say I chose LOVE instead of Money when I did Rites such as you wish to see. ( I really should make a thread about that one someday) And have no regrets given how it all turned out.

And just think of how much LOVE that money could do. No one said you had to keep it. How many charities could you help? How many homeless people could you shelter?

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by King Seesar

 

I have heard enough stories about that to not knock on that door. While I don't "believe" in that stuff, I respect that I very well could be wrong and don't want to find out the hard way. Best to let sleeping dogs lie.

I may already be on the way with this as I have always thought about how my actions will be affected by what I call Karma. I try to do right whenever possible to keep the positive stuff on my side. It doesn't always work, but having few regrets and a great family, I guess things have gone as well as I deserve if not much better.

The subject seems so hard to put into words, I am grateful for everyone's patience in explaining in such detail.

Brother I am saddened that as a mason you did not apply several of the liberal arts and sciences to this question to learn more about magick. Specifically, an application of LOGIC to this quest.

You can trace the development of this concept. It has its origins in alchemy (which never worked) and was taken "main stream" into new age occult by Crowley. Today, it has become an all-encompassing concept in which the meaning of the term varies depending on what type of new age occultism/mysticism the person subscribes to:

- Wicca/Druids/Neo-Pagans: Magick is nature based.
- Thelma: Magick is a manifestation of the will.
- Generic New Age: Magick is energy.

But in the end, there is 0 evidence for it and as you can see any request for evidence is quickly dismissed. Because there is none.

I know I'm going to be insulted/called names again by all our lovely people who claim they can do "magick" again for saying the above. So let me reiterate: I am 100% in support of people engaging in what belief system they feel like, even if it has no evidence. Insulting and berating me because I am asking for evidence that magick can impact the physical world only proves the point. If you've got no evidence, just say so: its OK.

reply to post by thelongjourney


It seems we have vastly different ideas of what magic is after this thread. As I have understood it, it is more of understanding the balance of my affect on my actions. I don't believe for a second it's making a bus disappear, or turning someone into a newt.

I had no idea what people meant when they said magic or magik. There are differing opinions, but the majority I have understood here are all pointing to the same thing.

I used LOGIC to gather OPINIONS so I could LEARN. I found the thread fascinating.

Originally posted by thelongjourney
Insulting and berating me because I am asking for evidence that magick can impact the physical world only proves the point.

That would be akin to me asking Christians to prove that they receive salvation through belief in Christ.

There answer would be that they have faith.

reply to post by network dude


Good response. There could be more to it.

Magick for me has become faith in a higher power.

reply to post by thelongjourney


On my way to work, so can not answer your other points at this moment, will return after work.
But, I am NOT surprised that you could put a price tag on LOVE. That shows how your mind is working, I think that very sad. What I received was well worth more than a few million I promise.

Also, didn't say Confirmation Bias was equal to the fact that Awareness Affects Reality, just trying to point you to science since that seems to be your emphasis here.

Sorry people call you names here, don't think I have done so, it happens to the best of us when we define our worldviews.