Originally posted by network dude
I seriously have no idea about any of it other than what I mentioned in the OP. I spelled it like that because that is how I have seen it here. I'd prefer to have my ignorance out in the open about this topic so nobody thinks I have any answers. I do however have lots of questions.
If you could indulge me, are there different kinds of magic/magick, and if so, what are they and what are their uses?
I didn't see Crowley as a hoaxer, more of an egomaniac who was very well read. He seemed more into searching for anything he didn't know that sounded like it might piss off the populace. But I do not want to limit the discussion to him and that time frame. I am very interested in the Rosicrucian type stuff. Unfortunately,
I don't even know enough right now to know what to ask.
Originally posted by Bybyots
network dude? I am not a newbie, I have been around for a while and have participated in threads with you. Do you actually mean to tell me that after 4 + years of creating and participating in threads like this that you don't know where to start to ask?
Your insincerity is showing.
Do you really want to discuss 'magick' today? Or is something else going on?
-“The opposition of m e / partsu and n a m t a r / shimtu is not just conceptually implied, but turns out to be made explicit in third millennium cosmogony. Herein a cosmic ocean, N a m m a , produces a proto-universe, Heaven and Earth undivided. In a series of stages, all represented by gods, Heaven and Earth produce the Holy Mound (d u k u g ), which in its turn produces E n l i l , ‘Lord Ether’, who by his very existence separates Heaven and Earth. E n l i l , representing the space between Heaven and Earth, the sphere of human and animal life, organises what he finds by his decisions (n a m t a r / shimtu), and thus puts everything into place: the universe becomes a cosmos. Before being permanently subjected, however, the primordial universe (Heaven and Earth) rebels; its representative, a member of the older generation of gods, E n m e sh a r r a , ‘Lord All M e ’, tries to usurp E n l i l ’s prerogative to n a m t a r / shimtu (i.e. prerogative to make decisions). He is defeated by E n l i l and incarcerated in the netherworld for good. The myth can be read as a theistically-slanted argument on two modes of defining order: an immutable cosmological order (m e / partsu) whose unmistakable champion is E n m e sh a r r a , against a protean, individual-centred, volitional, anthropomorphic order, whose champion is E n l i l . The latter reflects, on the religious and mythical plane, the hegemonic process revolving on the imposition and expansion of the centralised mode of production upon an earlier concept of the organisation of social life, production and reproduction.
The tension between divine rule and the universe to be subjugated is the theme of yet another third millennium myth, Lugale. In this myth an alliance of stones is led by A z a g , ‘Disorder’, a version (individualised for the occasion) of a common demon of untimely disease and disorder in general. The stones rebel against having their tasks allocated (n a m t a r / shimtu) by Ninurta, E n l i l ’s strong arm. Needless to say their resistance proofs futile, and the myth ends with a long list of stones, all given their proper functions by Ninurta. The difference between this myth and the one about E n m e sh a r r a lies in the specific moment of mythical time in which the confrontation takes place. Whereas E n m e sh a r r a belonged to the primordial universe that was subjugated when E n l i l organised the cosmos, the stones belong to a periphery of the universe: to rebellious mountain lands that continue to exist. Apparently the universe prior to divine rule and that outside divine rule share a tendency to rise against the prerogatives of the gods of order; and although in each case the rebellion is quenched, the very fact of its occurrence shows that divine rule is not beyond question, and that order is not completely secured. In other words, the way in which the uncaptured elements appear in the symbolic system reveals their continuing existence as a feared anti-social force and a threat to the hegemonic order.’