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Only THEN can you see that it paints a picture of how Abraham's willingness and obedience to sacrifice his son would open the door for God to sacrifice His own son for US.
By that single act of obedience all nations would be blessed through the Messiah who would be one of his own descendants.
Originally posted by mrperplexed
Again....WHY was a sacrifice necessary? Why did God need the obedience? He sees everything all the time right? so why not save the suffering?
And why did God need a door opened? Did he not create everything? Why the need for a loophole?
"Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you; but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ's sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy ... Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter ... therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God commit their souls to Him in doing good, as to a faithful Creator." (1 Peter 4:12)
Notice in the first verse that the Lord is specifically targeting our faith when He allows trials to come our way. He really hammers home this point when He says that our faith in Him is even more precious than any of the gold of this earth. He then makes an extreme statement when He says that this faith will then be "tested by fire."
Having your personal faith levels in the Lord tested by fire is not something most people want to hear or talk about in this current day and age. ...many pastors have decided not to talk or teach about this topic because it is so uncomfortable to talk about...
God is not causing all of these bad things to happen, thereby causing this kind of horrible suffering. Since the Bible tells us that there is no darkness in God, there is no way He could cause some of these bad and horrible things to occur.
These bad and horrible things are all occurring because of the Adamic curse that is still in operation on this earth. And until that curse is fully and finally removed when we get the New Heaven and New Earth, a certain amount of physical, mental and emotional suffering will not only be a part of this world and life, but it will also be a part of our individual and personal walks with the Lord.
This is why every single Christian needs the knowledge, revelation and understanding on this entire part of the walk with our Lord - so they can properly handle this type of adversity and suffering when it does come their way.
WHY PEOPLE GO THROUGH TRIALS
God isn't the reason for the suffering, WE are...
Isaiah 45
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by FreeThinkerbychoice
You can believe what you want . Your Freethinker by choice tells me that you do not like the burdens of the Gospel and seek to free yourself of them . You are wanting not to believe in Jesus, but you aren't quite sure are you ?
Originally posted by mrperplexed
I found this interesting.
www.religionfacts.com...
Originally posted by FreeThinkerbychoice
Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by FreeThinkerbychoice
You can believe what you want . Your Freethinker by choice tells me that you do not like the burdens of the Gospel and seek to free yourself of them . You are wanting not to believe in Jesus, but you aren't quite sure are you ?
I cannot argue with your statement of burden that gospels bestow upon modern man. If your read carefully then you would of seen the part where I said I cannot deny the existence of Christ. What bothers me though is that people put all there hopes on this character without considering the possibility of self empowerment by using principles of Christs teachings. Instead people find offense in the littlest of alternative comments towards the identity of Christ. I was merely stating my opinion which I am entitled to. I'm not very sure of many things because once you open your eyes and seek answers to personal questions one finds that our natural world and everything it bestows to be extremely complex and diverse. Try be a little more open minded in your endeavors of self discovery. Your reply indeed raises questions of insecurity in your own faith.
Good things
Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Murgatroid
You have a disgusting outlook. "God didn't need to do anything - WE needed it". A perfect SLAVE Mentality. You are totally wrong, If God is benevolent as he claims to be, then he does indeed need to get off his ass and act a certain way, otherwise he is a liar. God's own nature can go against himself (God IS love - not lovING but LOVE - yet God is also Jealous) and people will still worship him. It is hard to have compassion for such people who are being controlled when they promote such EVIL.
Originally posted by ccseagull
Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Murgatroid
You have a disgusting outlook. "God didn't need to do anything - WE needed it". A perfect SLAVE Mentality. You are totally wrong, If God is benevolent as he claims to be, then he does indeed need to get off his ass and act a certain way, otherwise he is a liar. God's own nature can go against himself (God IS love - not lovING but LOVE - yet God is also Jealous) and people will still worship him. It is hard to have compassion for such people who are being controlled when they promote such EVIL.
The doctrine that God is a jealous God comes from the Old Testament books of the law of Moses. The "jealousy" is always in the context of idol worship, beginning in the Ten Commandments of Exodus 20.
•"You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, (Exodus 20:5)
•for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God-- (Exodus 34:14)
•"For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God. (Deuteronomy 4:24)
•'You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, (Deuteronomy 5:9)
•for the LORD your God in the midst of you is a jealous God; otherwise the anger of the LORD your God will be kindled against you, and He will wipe you off, the face of the earth. (Deuteronomy 6:15)
What these five verses have in common is that they all share the same Hebrew adjective, qannâ' (Strong's H7067),5 translated with the English word "jealous." The interesting thing about this word is that it is only used in reference to God. In no instance is the word qannâ' used to describe human jealousy. The reason that God is "jealous" is because He wants people to choose to love Him.6 Jesus said that the most important commandment was to love God.7 God does not want us to waste out time worshipping pretend gods that do not exist.8
Human jealousyWhereas God's "jealousy" is primarily restricted to a jealousy over the worship of idols that competes with His love to prevent a dedicated relationship with Him, jealousy between people takes on quite a number of forms. Two different Hebrew words are used to describe human jealousy. The Hebrew verb qânâ' (Strong's H7065)9 refers to a passionate jealousy or envy.10 The Hebrew noun qin'âh (Strong's H7068)11 takes on a wide range of meanings from sexual passion (or jealousy) to a zeal for God to anger or envy.12 The exact meaning (and the English translation is usually determined from the context.
Human vs. godly jealousyThe differences between the words describing human vs. godly jealousy are profound. For example, the jealousy that keeps one out of heaven is defined as "an envious and contentious rivalry, jealousy" (Thayer's Greek Dictionary). God does not envy an human being or anything that any human being possesses. God has no rivals. The apostle Paul indicates that there is a godly form of jealousy.13 The main reason why atheists think that God should not be jealous is that, as an English word, "jealousy" has virtually universal negative connotations. In the original languages in which the Bible is written, Hebrew and Greek, the words translated as "jealousy" in English do not always have negative connotations. In fact, the Greek word often translated "jealous" is zēlos, from which we get the English word "zealous," referring more to zeal and ardor rather than jealousy.
Conclusion Jealousy is often thought of as being a negative trait. So, many people think that the Bible's description of God as jealous means that He must be a divine hypocrite. However, this page has shown that in the original languages in which the Bible is written, the words do not have those negative definitions. Since the word used to describe the jealousy of God is not even the same word used to describe human jealousy, it is clear that the apparent contradiction is just a result of an inability of the translated language (English) to accurately reflect the original language (Hebrew). There is no slight on the character of God in the original language.
Make sense to who?
It only starts to make sense when you fast forward into the future and look at it from GOD"S viewpoint when He would sacrifice HIS own son on this very same mountain.
Originally posted by FreeThinkerbychoice
reply to post by ccseagull
I can most definitely respect your viewpoint and strong sense of faith. I wish you the very best in your journey and personal discoveries.
Good things
Originally posted by jmdewey60
I would think that if there was some connection between those two events, that the writers of the New Testament would have mentioned it.
Isaac and Jesus were "only, beloved" sons of a righteous father; Ishmael had been sent away in Genesis 21:14 [Genesis 22:2].
Both Isaac and Jesus are identified as the "son of Abraham" [see Genesis 21:3; 22:2; Matthew 1:1].
Both were offered in sacrifice [Genesis 22:2; John 1:29; Matthew 27:35; Mark 15:24; Luke 23:33; John 11:5019:17-18].
The sacrifice was offered in the land of Moriah – Jerusalem [Genesis 22:2; 2 Chronicles 3:1; Matthew 16:21-23].
Both sons carried the wood for their own sacrifice [Genesis 22:6; John 19:17]
Both were "bound" and placed on top of the wood [Genesis 22:9; John 19:18-19; Philippians 2:8].
Both willingly allow themselves to be offered in sacrifice [Genesis 22:7-8; Colossians 2:6-8].
Both sons were "resurrected" or "given back" the their fathers on the third day. Isaac was essentially "dead" to his grieving father when God commanded him to sacrifice his son. On the "third day" God provided another sacrifice and his son was restored. God's son died on the Cross and was resurrected on the third day! [Genesis 22:4; Matthew 16:21; 17:23; 20; 19; Mark 9:31; 10:34; Luke 9:22; 18:22; 24:7, 44-47; Acts 10:40; 1 Corinthians 15:4].
ISAAC A "TYPE" OF JESUS
Notice the faith of Abraham - he looked forward to the cross, where the Messiah, the Lamb of God, would die in our place. Notice verse 8 says "God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering." It doesn't say, "God will provide for Himself a lamb," but that "God will provide Himself a lamb" - ie. provide Himself as the lamb! This theme is pictured all through the Old Testament, in every sacrifice - especially in the burnt offering, in the Passover Lamb, in Isaiah 53, in the New Testament, and even in the book of Revelation, where Jesus is referred to as "a Lamb as it had been slain," bearing the scars of His crucifixion for eternity.
"God will provide Himself a lamb." Abraham was looking prophetically towards God's fulfillment of all His promises, especially of the coming Redeemer.
Here, I believe, Abraham got his clearest glimpse of the coming Messiah:
John 8:56-58 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
In the Old Testament, God's name Jehovah means, "I Am that I Am." (See Exodus 3:14) This is exactly who Jesus claimed to be, which is why the unbelieving Jews got upset - but notice how it fulfilled the wonderful prophecy made by Abraham: "God will provide Himself a lamb." There are no contradictions in the Word of God - it is all one big Book that fits together wonderfully!
One of my favourite verses in the whole Bible:
Genesis 22:14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
Jehovahjireh - the Lord my Provider! The name means literally, "The Lord Will See or Provide," signifying that the Lord has seen my need and and will provide it.
Isaac A Type Of Christ