Question about Jesus

Originally posted by mrperplexed
I believe in evolution

I do not believe in any organized religion.

Not sure what that makes me?

Anyone who believes in evolution DOES believe in an organized religion.

Evolution IS in fact an organized religion regardless of what anyone wants to call it.

It takes just a much faith to believe in evolution as it does to believe in intelligent design.

People accept what the priests of the religion called "Science" all on FAITH.

With respect to its great contributions to society, I think it is important to make a case that science is really affecting society more like a religion now than a field of study or a resource base of useful information. Many everyday people do not understand it at all and accept ALL its teachings on faith.

Unfortunately some scientists and academic professionals are not so noble and have perpetrated deliberate frauds and cover-ups of important discoveries.

Modern Scientific beliefs are based upon a leap of faith in the big bang theory. It has become a belief system based on faith and therefore another form of religion. Scientists, like priests can explain their beliefs but the everyday people accept it all on faith. Scientists and doctors are the priests of this new religion, getting angry and crying "heresy" when anyone respectfully disagrees with them.

Has Science become a Religion

Science - The Illuminati Religion and Mind Control Tool for the Masses

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime


Great answer, but it brings up a question... if Jesus was tempted, then that means that he would have actually thought about committing a sin... regardless on whether or not he acted on those thoughts, thinking about it is sinful. For example... I am married, but if I happen to see an attractive woman somewhere and have a sexual thought about her then I have committed a sin, even though I did not act on that thought.

edit on 25-2-2013 by OptimusSubprime because: (no reason given)

Here's the problem. Ccseagull is wrong. Jesus did not "endure the same temptations we all do." The story of the temptation in the desert does not say that he was tempted. It says that he was "led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil." It does not say that He was. In fact, you can tell He wasn't by His responses to Satan. He outsmarted Satan every time. Satan did not tempt him. Not once.

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by mrperplexed
I believe in evolution

I do not believe in any organized religion.

Not sure what that makes me?

Anyone who believes in evolution DOES believe in an organized religion.

Evolution IS in fact an organized religion regardless of what anyone wants to call it.

It takes just a much faith to believe in evolution as it does to believe in intelligent design.

OK, to edit my statement then, I do not believe in organized religion outside of what science has shown definitively with evolution. (via Antibiotics, etc..) I understand this statement omits possible origins via the Big Bang Theory. As such I do not take on faith the big bang theory created everything. I merely muse it as a hypothesis on equal ground as a creator or God creating everything.

Originally posted by mrperplexed


How is it Justif I live my life better and in less sin than Christian A, B, and C

That doesn't matter because sin is sin. And the ultimate sin is to deny God. So by His standard how can you say you are better than anyone? No one can say they are better than anyone. That's why Scripture says

8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

- Ephesians 2

however simply because they "believe" they make it to Heaven and I dont?

No. That's a misunderstanding. Not all of them will. The Scriptures say

Faith without works is dead

- James 2:17

Also it says

21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

- Matthew 7

By that theory, Adolph Hitler, being a "Christian" will have an eternity of Heaven and I wont?

No. For all the above reasons. Calling yourself a Christians makes you one about as much as standing in a garage makes you a car. Remember, God is all-knowing and He is just.

Originally posted by LazarusTsiyr

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime


Great answer, but it brings up a question... if Jesus was tempted, then that means that he would have actually thought about committing a sin... regardless on whether or not he acted on those thoughts, thinking about it is sinful. For example... I am married, but if I happen to see an attractive woman somewhere and have a sexual thought about her then I have committed a sin, even though I did not act on that thought.

edit on 25-2-2013 by OptimusSubprime because: (no reason given)

Here's the problem. Ccseagull is wrong. Jesus did not "endure the same temptations we all do." The story of the temptation in the desert does not say that he was tempted. It says that he was "led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil." It does not say that He was. In fact, you can tell He wasn't by His responses to Satan. He outsmarted Satan every time. Satan did not tempt him. Not once.

Laz I agree with you. It seemed to me all along that Jesus had the upper hand all along. "Pestered" is more apt a description of the 40 days.

reply to post by Murgatroid


You may not agree but the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion are being followed by the rouge Jews who do not follow God . They are the Globalist Jews and they are busy attacking our youth putting these mixed up ideas in their heads . They are also taking over our government . The Protocols have had so much money spent on them to discredit them by the people who created and use them . has a copy of them and does not claim them to be a fraud . It is worth a read . You will see they are real and valid .

reply to post by mrperplexed


Indeed. I mean Satan tried to tempt Him, but he obviously failed. He went there with the full intention of letting Satan try to tempt Him. The point of it was to illustrate His dominance over Satan.

Originally posted by ccseagull
reply to post by Prisoner60863

 

Forgot to answer: there was no death in the garden of Eden. It was the moment that Eve and Adam ate the fruit and then God kicked them out of the garden. At that point they became flesh and so were subject to death as the body was no longer perfect.

22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

No, they were already flesh. According to the story, this is quite obvious. They were never intended to be immortal, hence God actively preventing them from living forever.
To the OP though; no, sin does not bring physical death. Everything that lives in a physical state dies. Animals die, plants die, even rocks, given enough time, will cease being rocks. There is nothing wrong with death; it is natural and inescapable. God told them they would die if they ate from the tree, which was a direct lie. They did not die, but continued living their lives.

Originally posted by LazarusTsiyr

Originally posted by mrperplexed


No. For all the above reasons. Calling yourself a Christians makes you one about as much as standing in a garage makes you a car. Remember, God is all-knowing and He is just.

edit on 25-2-2013 by LazarusTsiyr because: (no reason given)

Well now I am confused, because I was told (even somewhere in this thread) just believing and asking for forgiveness woudl get me a front row in heaven. Now there seem to be stipulations on behaior as well.

My point being, I live a great life, I volunteer time to non profits, hell I started a non profit! I treat people great. Even people that other "christians" would consider undesirables. (I know mileage varys on that statement).

and so why can I not make it to heaven on my actions alone?

Originally posted by LazarusTsiyr

Originally posted by mrperplexed


How is it Justif I live my life better and in less sin than Christian A, B, and C

That doesn't matter because sin is sin. And the ultimate sin is to deny God. So by His standard how can you say you are better than anyone? No one can say they are better than anyone.

Im not sayin Im better than Hitler...(but Im better than Hitler)

Originally posted by mrperplexed


Well now I am confused, because I was told (even somewhere in this thread) just believing and asking for forgiveness woudl get me a front row in heaven.

That's not true at all, as Scripture illustrates. That is the false "Once saved, always saved" doctrine that modern-day Christianity uses just to get their numbers up and keep money in their greedy, Mammon-worshiping pockets.

Now there seem to be stipulations on behaior as well.

Not now. Always.

My point being, I live a great life, I volunteer time to non profits, hell I started a non profit! I treat people great. Even people that other "christians" would consider undesirables. (I know mileage varys on that statement).

and so why can I not make it to heaven on my actions alone?

I already showed why. So that none may brag. I mean, no offense, but what you are doing above is a form of bragging. You are bragging about what a "good person" you are. It's not your works, but your faith. Faith without works is dead, but so is works without faith. It's a two-way street. We have nothing without Faith. And once we have faith then we are to do works. That's how we prove our faith. Without them our faith is dead.

Originally posted by LazarusTsiyr

Originally posted by mrperplexed


Well now I am confused, because I was told (even somewhere in this thread) just believing and asking for forgiveness woudl get me a front row in heaven.

That's not true at all, as Scripture illustrates. That is the false "Once saved, always saved" doctrine that modern-day Christianity uses just to get their numbers up and keep money in their greedy, Mammon-worshiping pockets.

Now there seem to be stipulations on behaior as well.

Not now. Always.

My point being, I live a great life, I volunteer time to non profits, hell I started a non profit! I treat people great. Even people that other "christians" would consider undesirables. (I know mileage varys on that statement).

and so why can I not make it to heaven on my actions alone?

I already showed why. So that none may brag. I mean, no offense, but what you are doing above is a form of bragging. You are bragging about what a "good person" you are. It's not your works, but your faith. Faith without works is dead, but so is works without faith. It's a two-way street. We have nothing without Faith. And once we have faith then we are to do works. That's how we prove our faith. Without them our faith is dead.

Laz.. You may be the one person on all of ATS who can actually restore my faith. Seriously. I mean that as a compliment.

Still, there is the notion of "believe in me or else" which I just cant seem to shake..

Originally posted by mrperplexed
Lazarus, I just starred you. Reading the Bible is what made me a Christian - Church is what stripped me of my faith.

What makes a person a Christian, is Jesus' blood which is applied when they are born again.

As far as the Church goes and your faith, people will ALWAYS let you down.

"Every major religion in the world has been manufactured or infiltrated by the Illuminati to enslave and brainwash society. In essence, religion was the first form of mind control. The indoctrination of the masses by a "Trojan Horse" false religion has allowed the Illuminati to take control and work in secret for many, many years."

The Real Conspiracy the Jesuit infiltration of Christianity

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by mrperplexed
Lazarus, I just starred you. Reading the Bible is what made me a Christian - Church is what stripped me of my faith.

What makes a person a Christian, is Jesus' blood which is applied when they are born again.

Murg, do you have an opinion on where the people who believed in Gods prior to Christianity go?

Originally posted by mrperplexed


Laz.. You may be the one person on all of ATS who can actually restore my faith. Seriously. I mean that as a compliment.

Well, thanks. I hope I can.

Still, there is the notion of "believe in me or else" which I just cant seem to shake..

edit on 25-2-2013 by mrperplexed because: typo

I can totally understand that. It's not really like that. That'd be like saying that United States laws are "Obey the law or else" just because there are punishments for breaking them.

Originally posted by LazarusTsiyr

Originally posted by mrperplexed


Laz.. You may be the one person on all of ATS who can actually restore my faith. Seriously. I mean that as a compliment.

Well, thanks. I hope I can.

Still, there is the notion of "believe in me or else" which I just cant seem to shake..

edit on 25-2-2013 by mrperplexed because: typo

I can totally understand that. It's not really like that. That'd be like saying that United States laws are "Obey the law or else" just because there are punishments for breaking them.

Yes, well Im a libertarian (by nature not party) and the same applies to your analogy.

Originally posted by mrperplexed
Murg, do you have an opinion on where the people who believed in Gods prior to Christianity go?

Yeah I suppose I do, just like most believers.

I believe that the very FIRST thing Jesus did after His death was to go down into the center of the earth and gave them an opportunity to hear the good news and go to Heaven.

I suspect that on that day, millions set foot in Heaven for the very first time.

reply to post by mrperplexed


Before any law or Sacrifice for sin there was a mans righteousness towards God that saved him . Abraham was before the Law and he was in paradise with Lazarus .

reply to post by Murgatroid


Yep.

18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water

- 1 Peter 3

From this we see that Christ went down into Sheol and preached to the dead there to give them the chance to follow Him.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by mrperplexed

 

Before any law or Sacrifice for sin there was a mans righteousness towards God that saved him . Abraham was before the Law and he was in paradise with Lazarus .

What does that mean for primitive man, and way ancients?