Question about Jesus

Originally posted by backcase

Originally posted by Sounds_of_Silence
God doesn't know our suffering, nor does Jesus.

Have they grown breasts only to have them hacked off so to not be able to feed their children as happens in African countries?

God is present in the heart of each victim in the world, He is there to offer consolation and the Kingdom of Heaven to those unhappy people.

Jesus watched His Mom watching Him get spat on, cursed, and crucified. He watched people whom He had cured of illnesses strike Him and throw stones. He knows our suffering better than we do.

And what kind of PERFECT GOD would allow such atrocities....hmmm You sure the GOD loves you?

Originally posted by mrperplexed


Has said every believer for the past 2013 years..

Really? Every believer? I suppose you can back that statement up? No offense, but if you are gonna come here and make snarky comments, then expect for us to dispute the things you say, especially something as absolute and as ludicrous as this.

reply to post by mrperplexed


I am not offended. As you've most likely read before God created man to be companions. But he didn't want robot like beings, he wanted true companionship. And that's where free will comes in. He said not to touch the fruit. I don't care if it was an actual apple or whatever it was: the fact is God asked Adam and Eve not to touch it. But Satan who is angry at God for being cast out of Heaven and is jealous of humans for our relationship to God tempted Eve. And Eve acted upon her freewill. So sin had entered the world. This caused distance between us humans and God. Man gave sacrifices throughout time to God but they were only temporary sacrifices and man kept sinning. This creates distance between God and us. So God came up with the perfect plan: to send Jesus down to earth in human form. How could Jesus not prove He was the ultimate sacrifice if he didn't have the same temptations and struggles as we did. He wept when his best friend Lazarus died. He had compassion for suffering. He went to the midst of the lowest of humanity and loved them. He loves the person, the heart of people, not the sin. When we sin doesn't it make us feel guilty and make us hide from God? It can lead to further sin and in the end not caring and hating ourselves to the point of destroying our lives and falling away from God. Jesus is the "bridge" meaning we get to God through Jesus. When Jesus overcame all struggles on this earth in human form he allowed himself to feel life as we do, with all the thoughts and physical sensations. Sure he knew what it was like from the aspect of being Godly but this allows us to understand that he truly experienced life as we humans do. He prayed all the time for strength, followship with God, for understanding. The night of his arrest he sweated blood and prayed that God spare him of what was to come: the crucification. But he went ahead. He knew it had to be done and he loved us so much that he sacrificed himself - the perfect sacrifice and when he died on the cross he won the battle. We merely have to believe that Jesus died for our sins and repent. Repent means to draw close to Jesus and yes we are thankful that he took our place. When God looks at us he sees the blood of Jesus covering us and he sees us pure. That is what Jesus did for us. It is that simple. Yes we have to live out our lives and have faith. Faith is believing in the unseen. Our Father will watch over us. As a Christian I can tell you I have had my shared of life issues: abuse as a child, more health issues than you can imagine, job issues, relationship issues, I am as subject to life happening to me as the next person but I have faith that God will help me through and he does. And I am stronger for it and I can say that I grow as a person. No I don't enjoy what happens but there is always a silver lining. And I know that the Bible is a historical document. People say it was written by man - yes it was but the words were inspired by the Holy Spirit and so the book is holy. It is just a book but the words within are alive and there are artifacts and old cities and scrolls that match what is written in the Bible. That is historical evidence. There are prophecies that have come true. And there is a great prophecy about to occur - as noted in the book of Revelations. Revelations can be very overwhelming for most people and terrifying. And there is a terrifying time to come - for those who are unbelievers. What is occuring in Israel right now is prophecy. People can chose to believe it or not. I do believe it and I hope that all believe it. There is a spiritual battle going on right now and if you think weird things are going on right now it's about to explode and IF (as I believe) all it takes to spare our eternal life and help make this current one bearable and even joyful, is to accept Jesus as your savior... it's really that easy. There are the naysayers and scoffers on ATS and they are entitled to their opinion. But it is just THEIR opinion. What God wants from every human is between Him and you. He wants a personal relationship. Sorry for rambling - I am trying to remember your comments and trying to cover them all.

reply to post by winofiend


Yes I am a slave to God the Father through the shed blood of Christ . Everybody is a slave to something . You are too! Some are slaves to drugs , or a bottle or some thing that you worship . An airplane , aboat , a motorcycle or the group that you run with or even your home and garden .What is your poison ? To each his own .

reply to post by backcase


Know's our suffering better than we do?

Tell that to the victims of: en.wikipedia.org...

...

reply to post by mrperplexed


God allows such because that is what it took to build the road for us to our inheritance, His Treasure.

He hid His treasure on a treacherous mountain, and to get to the top of it one must suffer by taking only the path that leads to the top, the path paved with the guidelines of the Commandments. But if one strays from the path for an easy stroll to the top, he will soon find himself walking off the rocky precipice.

Originally posted by mrperplexed


Why would God need a "bridge"? Why would God care if we know about Him?

He doesn't; we do. What makes you think He needs a bridge?

Why would God care if we know about Him?

Because that's why He created us. He created us to worship Him.

And if we need to be "forgiven" that implies contempt or anger on the part of God,

No, it doesn't. One thing you are forgetting is that our God is a Holy and Just God. Our need to be forgiven doesn't make Him angry.

is that a perfect God?

Yes. And we are imperfect beings. That is why it is so hard to understand His ways.

reply to post by LazarusTsiyr



I do not mean to be so snarky, I apologize.

Is it not common practice for Christians to interpret the scripture and apply life lessons handed out through parables, etc.. It certainly was when I was a Christian, and everyone in my bible study, including I, at one time or another said out loud almost verbatim what you just said.

Yes, I am a former Christian. Lazaraus, tell me that most every Christian you know does not echo your sentiment.

But for sake of digressing, I will modify my statement.

"Says most every Christian who studies the bible and draws parallels to their lives."

reply to post by ccseagull


So perfect God created us Imperfect Humans, had to "rethink his plan" after sin was introduced by killing his son Jesus?

Does this sound like a perfect God?

I'm amazed there are still people around who believe all this malarkey.

Which 'god' do you prefer, the homicidal maniac of the Old Testament, or the slightly improved child rapist (Mary), son-killer (Jesus' death was apparently preordained) all in order to somehow magically make up for sins yet un-committed?

Please read about the Greek gods, the Roman gods, etc. and realize how silly you sound; why do you believe in the god your parents do/did? Why not some other god from all the hundreds of possible gods?

Someday religious belief will be diagnosed as the form of mental illness is so obviously is; (or do you think only VERY religious people, like Muslim extremists, are mentally ill?)

Originally posted by LazarusTsiyr

Originally posted by mrperplexed


Why would God need a "bridge"? Why would God care if we know about Him?

He doesn't; we do. What makes you think He needs a bridge?

--So God created imperfect beings who need a Bridge to communicate to Him? If we are imperfect inventions, that by definition makes God imperfect.

Why would God care if we know about Him?

Because that's why He created us. He created us to worship Him.

-----Why would a PERFECT God NEEEED - Wouldnt an ego like that disqualify perfection?

And if we need to be "forgiven" that implies contempt or anger on the part of God,

No, it doesn't. One thing you are forgetting is that our God is a Holy and Just God. Our need to be forgiven doesn't make Him angry. --- So a mortal sin gets me infinity of Hell? Is that Just?

is that a perfect God?

Yes. And we are imperfect beings. That is why it is so hard to understand His ways.

Originally posted by Prisoner60863
If Sin brings death both physical and spiritual, and Jesus did not sin, How did he die a physical death? was there death in the garden of eden before sin?

First, what is sin in your view?

My pov says sin is missing the mark. We have the knowledge to know better when we miss our goal of who we think we are or who we want to be. In our hearts.... we know right from wrong.

We live in a world in which matter has a strong hold. We are to overcome matter with our spirit because where matter is, it is a thicker density than spirit.

We were formed out of the breath of the creator as he breathed life into us.... which means to inhale and exhale... to "inspire" (in Latin) is the sum of the two (yin and yang).

Also, a yin and yang kind of meaning in Latin, for to inhale is to "inspire" and exhale is to "expire". This is why we have an end in the material world. Its Dual.

The breath only lasts for a time in this reality, but in our true form we need not to breathe and I think there is an "outside of time". This is where consciousness is.

I don't believe before the, "garden", we died a physical/material death. I could be wrong.. I daydream and read about it, but I wasn't an eye witness.

Same with.. I think we have been around in spirit before man was created, we are just experiencing the story. Like... an art... and inspiration had by God.. or the Creator, whatever you want to call him.

ETA: I was just thinking...after I hit reply... that nature tells me in this reality that I have a daddy. There is a donor.. who donated life to me.

Originally posted by mrperplexed


Lazaraus, tell me that most every Christian you know does not echo your sentiment.

Which sentiment?

"Says most every Christian who studies the bible and draws parallels to their lives."

I have to dispute that one also because you are trying to invoke every Christian that has ever lived that you've never interacted with. You cannot possibly know that.

You could say, "Says almost every Christian that I've ever personally known." But how many out of the total current Earth's population of Christians is that? Less than 1%? Sounds far less impressive than "Has said every believer for the past 2013 years" (aka 100% of all Christians to have ever lived). No?

reply to post by Sounds_of_Silence


God does know our suffering. He created us. He is omnipresent. Perhaps, and then again, perhaps not, if people gave the Bible a chance to read the time of creation (in Genesis) they would see how our story all began. The devil, aka: Lucifer (shining star) was one of God's beloved angels, a beautiful angel and Lucifer made beautiful music. Lucifer wondered why he should worship anyone (God) and wanted power of his own and to be worshiped. He started a rebellion and was cast out of Heaven along with 1/3 of the angels. When God created man it was for companionship and to be worshiped. Worshiped may seem like a slavery type role to some but think of those moments when you witness the most incredible sight: an unbelievable sunset, your child smiling up at you, the most beautiful music you've ever heard, that soul connection with your loved one - that is what worship is like. Being in the moment of something so glorious and just being in complete wonder and awe - it overwhelms you. God made us to worship him. So when the devil came between us and God that is why Jesus was sent. Jesus was the only way to beat the devil. God isn't playing games with our human lives - he is fighting for us from Satan. Satan is what is causing the misery on this earth and causing mankind to create evil and harm and suffering on humans. Satan loves to torture us and make us feel angry towards God and that we have no hope. Satan will try everything in his power to take us down with him because the devil knows his days are numbered. When we are born to our human parents they do everything they can to keep us safe and on the right path. But we want our own independence and power and we make mistakes and sometimes on purpose. Yes God has control and could make everything perfect but then we are robots again and He hasn't our love because we truly love him, he has made us love him. Would you want a dog that has a plastic heart and does everything that seems like it loves us or do you want that insane creature that goes nuts over you? That's the closest way I can best explain it. We are fighting a spiritual battle. The old testament (before Jesus) was a brutal time. Absolutely brutal and it seemed like God was always angry. If you read the new testament (when Jesus was here) the whole tone changes. There is no more "law" (having to live by a set of rules). We are now living under grace meaning our sins have been forgiven and yes we still sin but because we love Jesus we try not to sin. But again we are not perfect and so we fight with the "flesh" (meaning our human selves). When people do horrific things to others they are acting on temptation and anger and power and not acting out of love. Christians who have fought religious battles and acted inappropriately are not acting out of love either. So you see it is the human nature always battling with sin (and the temptations of the devil as he tries to destroy us).

Originally posted by mrperplexed


--So God created imperfect beings who need a Bridge to communicate to Him?

Yes.

If we are imperfect inventions, that by definition makes God imperfect.

No, it doesn't. Typical atheist talking point, though. One which they love to spout but cannot possibly prove.

-----Why would a PERFECT God NEEEED - Wouldnt an ego like that disqualify perfection?

He doesn't "need." That's not what you said. You said, "care." Your exact words were "Why would God care if we know about Him?"

So no that wouldn't disqualify anything. You are just trying to move the goalposts by changing your words.

So a mortal sin gets me infinity of Hell?

No, an unforgiven sin will get you into Hell. Being forgiven is not hard. It's a FREE GIFT. All you have to do is ask.

Is that Just?

Actually it's the definition of just. If you break the laws of America, there is a penalty for each one, many of which include prison time. Is the judge unjust for sentencing you to prison for a crime? No. God is just and He has penalties for every crime committed against Him.

reply to post by ccseagull


omnipresent, ha - I mean omnipotent.

reply to post by ccseagull


Jesus was the only way to beat the devil? WHAT??????

GOD Created Everything! He could will the Devil away by mere thought, likewise he could will the Devil out of all Humans by mere thought.....

If God does not have control over the devil, he is not "all powerful."

reply to post by mrperplexed


God didn't have to rethink anything.

Satan is interfering and trying to take all souls with him - to steal us from God.

I have a child. I want my child to do the right things in life. Let me say that as much as I love my savior and I believe with my utmost that Jesus is real and that God is all knowing and all powerful that I want my child to be a believer too. However when she says she doesn't feel like saying her prayers I let her make that decision. It pains me but ultimately she has to make her own decision and I cannot make her believe in anything. This is a personal decision she has to make within her own being. I cannot make her do anything as otherwise I am taking away her RIGHT of freewill and God wants a genuine relationship. This is hard for people to understand because we are only human - God is our maker. By the way he could have just trashed us and said, "forget this" but he is fighting for us.

No I don't believe in other Gods because there is no evidence for them. And Satan is a counterfitter. I just hope for those who just can't believe or won't try to understand that when they see prophecy coming true, ie: destruction of Damascus, the two witnesses, the sudden disappearance of believers (which will include all children), the one money currency, the death of a world leader who suddenly comes alive again, the mark that will be imposed on the forehead/hand and the great tribulation - I truly hope that you will remember that these events were foretold and that Jesus is real and just wants you to believe in him.

reply to post by LazarusTsiyr


No I meant why create something just to "worship" you. It seems egotistical. = imperfect

- Interesting that one of my answers was an athiest talking point, I am not Athiest, I am agnostic. But logic took me to the answer I gave.

Also, God has given me zero proof he exists, so how can he fault me for not believing?

How can he fault me if I choose one of the other 20 major religions, or 1000s of offshoots other than Christianity?

Originally posted by mrperplexed
reply to post by ccseagull

 

Jesus was the only way to beat the devil? WHAT??????

GOD Created Everything! He could will the Devil away by mere thought, likewise he could will the Devil out of all Humans by mere thought.....

If God does not have control over the devil, he is not "all powerful."

Jesus was God's appeal for souls to use their own free will to conquer the Kingdom of Heaven. He showed us what gets us there and even how to want to get there. But He will not just will us there because the separation of the wheat from tares is upon us