Big Bear police caught on scanner discusing burning down the cottage dronner was in and then it burn

reply to post by borracho

There has been little evidence to show that he committed any murders.

I didn’t need to read any further. You forget that there was an eye witness there that Dorner also shot.

It is all fine that people are going on with the innocent until proven guilty bit but try to remember that is for the courts and if he was innocent then maybe he should have come out of the house he just broke into after stealing one car and carjacking another person instead of having a shootout with them. You can’t possibly be saying there is no evidence for that. If Dorner didn’t kill the one cop and injure the other then who did and why weren’t the police looking for the person who did.

Use a little common sense about this. He should have surrendered but instead he chose to die. His death was his choice. To be honest I wish they could have captured him but not at the expense of more lives.

The ones I feel bad for are the victims and there is a long list including the home owner but Dorner isn’t a victim.

Originally posted by impaired

There are going to be a lot of these.

reply to post by Grimpachi

Ad I keep saying it doesnt matter if he is guilty or not.
Tell the old lady they got shot in the back how you feel and I bet she disagree's
There is no diffrence there i don't care how scared or angry they were shooting the old lady was wrong
There are so many things that could have gone srong when the burnt that house down.
I am having a hard time understand why people can't axept this.
Just because we say they shohldnt burn it doesn't mean we love, condone or think dorner is cool.
We have seen what polises like these lead to

reply to post by jaffer44


The LAPD was definitely wrong for shooting up that truck but I separate the two. Dorner didn’t even know those ladies and using that is an appeal to emotion I can separate the two instances can you?

It is almost like you are trying to justify Dorners murder spree. Dorner committed suicide no matter how you look at it. I wish he had surrendered he deserved to become someone’s wife in prison.

reply to post by Grimpachi


Sorry I dont see at difffernt in both case police made decisions while highly charged with emotion end resault was innecent people got hurt rember they didnt just shoot one car up.

reply to post by jaffer44

In each of those 'mistaken identity' shootings, do you know what the innocent parties did to warrant the police shooting up their vehicles?
Did they shoot at the police?
Did they try to run over a cop?
Did they even try to run away from the police?

NO.
None of the above.

They were victims.
They weren't even guilty of looking like Dorner.

But the cops thought they were Dorner. What does this tell you?
They did nothing to warrant being shot at, but the cops shot anyway.... because the cops thought they were Dorner.

The cops were out to eliminate Dorner.

Thats why burning it was not ok because a small mistake could cost another life.
Not only will will a famly be morning but a good police office will have to live with the fact he killed the wrong person.
But its om he was following SOP

reply to post by Grimpachi


If they could have caught him without killing should they have ?
I think that the question at the heart of it

reply to post by jaffer44


Well he didn’t even come out of a burning house so what are the chances of taking him alive without endangering others’ lives? I guess they could have waited till he ran out of bullets but again those bullets would have been aimed at police officers. I don’t care how much you pay a cop I don’t expect them to volunteer as targets. It is reported he had phone so he could have called the FBI or multiple news agencies saying he wanted to surrender but according to his manifesto and actions he had no intention of doing so.

I think they set the place on fire knowingly. I don't think they were interested in negotiation. They wanted to kill this guy. I don't think they knew whether anyone else was being held hostage or hiding in the cabin. I do know there was an awful lot of bullets put into that cabin. The police had a lot of other options in getting this guy, possibly alive. They should have waited but probably couldn't trust their own competency and were afraid that even though he was completely surrounded, he would some how slip away. I think they should have waited especially considering it sounds like they were tearing down walls. If that is the case they should definitely have been able to see inside. They also talk of an RPG , that might be a game changer, if true. How easy is it to get one of these in the states??? I think ,if he had one he would have already used it. I think they wanted him DEAD!! If he had surrendered and came out the front door, they would have yelled gun and shot him to death. Just my opinion and I think they did the wrong thing.

reply to post by Grimpachi

Registered: 17-11-2011Location: FloridaMood: GrimMember was on ATS21 minutes ago. P 2,793  F 362  S 4,435W 35  K 25memberposted on 15-2-2013 @ 11:02 AM     this post   reply to post by jaffer44 Well he didn’t even come out of a burning house so what are the chances of taking him alive without endangering others’ lives? 

He may have been dead when they started the fire. That would be a good reason for him not to come out. You realize that they shot the hell out of the house.

This is all irrelevant any way. There isn't any question that they burned the house. The police treatment of folks that they mistakenly thought were Dorner is proof that they wanted him dead. The story is one of a hunt to the death of a suspect.

I do not think he was dead when the fire started because there was a gunshot after I think that is when he took his life. If the coroner’s report finds a bullet in his head it will tell. I also think they started the fire whether it was from the tear gas or not. I sure didn’t expect anyone to try to save him though or stand out there as targets hoping he would run out of bullets. I sure do not expect fireman to go in after him or try to put out the fire with bullets cooking off.

One thing I am sure of is that if he wanted to surrender he had several opportunities. I don’t feel bad for him at all. I do feel bad for the victims and their families.

reply to post by Grimpachi


We are told the fire could not be put out because of ammunition going off in the fire. There is no way to know if the gunshot was from him until a coroner's report is issued.

Matters not he was a dead man before the LAPD released 'his' manifesto, he may have been breathing... but he was as good as dead.

reply to post by starfoxxx


I certainly don't think he was a peaceful monk figure, but I think he was smart enough to realize he wasn't getting out of that cabin alive and offing himself in the fire would lead people to suspect the police burned him alive. Look at all the people who are pretty much 100% sure that's what happened.

I think there is a good chance he offed himself, there is a good chance the cops intentionally killed him, and that there was a real good chance if he came out he wasn't going to last more than a few seconds.

reply to post by Grimpachi

One thing I am sure of is that if he wanted to surrender he had several opportunities. I don’t feel bad for him at all. I do feel bad for the victims and their families.

I don't feel anything for him or the families. I didn't know anyone involved.

I do know that the surrender opportunities that you speak of are a joke. The police shot up several cars that had people in them. No one in the cars did anything to warrant shots being fired.
What chance did he have of surrender if the cops were shooting totally non-threatening people because they simply thought it was him?

Originally posted by Grimpachi
I do not think he was dead when the fire started because there was a gunshot after I think that is when he took his life. If the coroner’s report finds a bullet in his head it will tell. I also think they started the fire whether it was from the tear gas or not. I sure didn’t expect anyone to try to save him though or stand out there as targets hoping he would run out of bullets. I sure do not expect fireman to go in after him or try to put out the fire with bullets cooking off.

One thing I am sure of is that if he wanted to surrender he had several opportunities. I don’t feel bad for him at all. I do feel bad for the victims and their families.

edit on 14-2-2013 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)

It won't tell Just because he has a bullet in his head doesn't mean he shot himself.
He probly did shoot himself but that wont be fact just because he has the wound.
I never said they should have risked there lives in that fire to save hime the fire should 't have been lit in the first place.
If they decided they needed to use something that is know to burn houses down then firebrigade should be on hand if it was unsafe for firebrigade to be there then they shouldn't have used the burrners.
I also feel for the victims and i am said that some may never get disclosure because of how this played out
Once again at what pount to we exept loss of bystandeds in the pursut of catching a suspect i will remind you this is mot about dorner is is gone they never have to chase him again.
I realy worry bext time something like this happens little old granny may not be so lucky

reply to post by butcherguy

The police treatment of folks that they mistakenly thought were Dorner is proof that they wanted him dead. The story is one of a hunt to the death of a suspect.

That's a very good point. I didn't think we were going to see him captured alive even before the stand off. Even if he had turned himself in with media present I'm pretty sure there would have been an accident.

reply to post by Domo1


I am not arguing about if he died in fire or gun shot I wont speculatr on that
And its had nothing to do with this thread

reply to post by butcherguy

I don't feel anything for him or the families. I didn't know anyone involved.

I heard some audio of the wife of one of the officers and it was actually pretty moving. I generally feel pretty removed from this sort of thing too though.

I just want to say I feel for the police that lost there lives.
I in know way condon there death and if dorner is guilty I have no simpathy for the man.
But that changes nothing.
The reason we don't get to dish out justist when we've been wronged is because we will use emotion.
The police are our mediators to step in and look at things unamotionaly and even taught to supress there emotions at a crime scene.
This didn't happen even the people saying it was ok have all started the they believed that the police let there emotions take over.
Thats no exuse for what happened in fact thats against the law.
Laws are not there just to keep us safe from voilence its there to keep us safe from political prosurcution and corrupt police.
I'm not saying thoughs cops were corrupt just explain why they are not just alowed to through laws out the window because they want to