Big Bear police caught on scanner discusing burning down the cottage dronner was in and then it burn, page 12

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reply posted on 14-2-2013 @ 07:18 AM by Kadmiel

Actually, this is misinformation they used an incindary bomb in the home. When they do this it generates alot of heat and the police forces around the country call them "burners" you need to do a little more research op before posting HOAX information.

reply posted on 14-2-2013 @ 07:29 AM by butcherguy

Originally posted by Kadmiel
Actually, this is misinformation they used an incindary bomb in the home. When they do this it generates alot of heat and the police forces around the country call them "burners" you need to do a little more research op before posting HOAX information.

Is there any specific reason that the sheriffs on the scene would reference 'burning the Mother-effer down' in relation to these harmless tear gas grenades that they used?

How is filling a cabin with tear gas similar to burning a building down?

It is curious that immediately after dispensing the 'burners' they were heard to say, 'We have fire'. Is that more LEO slang? Gas dispensing is referred to as 'fire'?

Another curious thing would be the end result.... total destruction of the building by fire. Coincidence?

'We've got fire.'

I think it may be more than a coincidence.

Actually, this is misinformation they used an incindary bomb in the home.

Anyway, how are you so sure of what they used?
Were you the guy that loaded it? Or did you fire it? Or were you just standing next to them on the scene, laughing and cheering (also recorded on the radio chatter that day)?
Or are you another that has an IP that traces to Reston, VA?

edit on 14-2-2013 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 14-2-2013 @ 07:39 AM by Mclaneinc

reply to post by bodybagPAT

Sorry, you are not getting something..

If you read my post you will see that I looked at it from all angles including the one of him being the violent killer as described BUT what you are not linking to is its the situation people are up in arms about.

I have no times for daft conspiracy theories other than they seemed very set on this man being dead one way or another.

I look at the situation and its the wrong outcome..

A large man pinned down in a small building with an open forest environment around, he has snipers up his ass for all angles so he's NOT going to just sneak away. Basically he's going nowhere unless he turns into a mole and digs his way out and that isn't on the cards.

So for all logical outcomes the man is contained, no officer needs to put their life on the line more than they have done. Now its time for negotiations as the Police do not know if he's alone and it should be negotiations one way or another.

If the man refuses they can wait him out, put a gas cannister in etc but the normal action is to wait or rush the place.

But no, Police clearly can be heard to be planning to BURN the building, a rather odd and incorrect way to deal with this situation and so clear are they on this there's 7 or 8 people sent to set the place alight.

That man regardless of what he had or had not done was targeted to die this way.

Will the burning tactic be used worldwide, I very much doubt it bar in some rather ruthless countries, the fact is that it should never have been used here, a contained man with no where to go and no real intel if he had someone in there leads me logically to say burning the building was the WRONG idea.

Lastly, if that was the intention and it seems to suggest that they were trying to kill him without chance of surrender then its murder...

For all I know the man was everything they said he was and as its the official story and I have no proof otherwise I'm happy to go along with that, and no I don't jump to bad guys defence for any trivial reason but what happened here is not what the Police should seen to be doing, they are not Judge Dredd, this isn't Mega City One, if he comes out blasting then you shot the bastard, if he's holed up you play the waiting game simply because it does not put any officers at risk.

They found him, didn't wait and burned him alive...And that is why you were wrong...

Nothing personal, I don't call childish names nor attack a persons intelligence I simply say we all have the ability to be wrong and I think you were to a degree here.

reply posted on 14-2-2013 @ 07:45 AM by Mclaneinc

reply to post by butcherguy

Yup, the references to burning was clearly done in the set fire to building manner and there was clearly audible hate and wish to see him dead in the audio.

I don't care if they are called burners as slang, its a smoke grenade and that place went up like a rocket, that place was lit up with fire, something you don't see from smoke grenades or tear gas cannisters.

What next, are they going to say because he had a 'heater' slang for gun that he set fire to the place with the 'heater'?

reply posted on 14-2-2013 @ 07:51 AM by Daughter2

Originally posted by bodybagPAT

There is NO conspiracy. Dorner killed police officers, and he killed the children of a police officer.

I get the whole 'innocent until proven guilty' thing, but this man said what he was going to do, did it, and threatened to do more of the same crimes.

You are all so ridiculous; that if this had ended a different way, lets say, the cabin was never burnt down and instead he just shot himself; you would all still be posting about how the poor innocent until proven guilty man was being hunted by the police like a wild animal and they had no right to chase him into a cabin.

Now hear me out, heres the issue (how dare someone come to a different conclusion than you! I must be a sheeeep!):

You all have your panties in a jam and think that since now they turned Dorner into a Crispy Critter, Police all across the nation will use this as standard operating procedure. Newsflash: They won't.

You obviously DON''t get the innocent until proven guilty thing. It doesn't matter if he was actually guilty or not. He should have been treated as an innocent person.

The whole issue is not the guild or innocence of Dorner but whether the police could have used other methods.

The police have learned that they can blatantly plan to kill someone, have it recorded and STILL get away with it. As long as the public doesn't like the person - it's perfectly fine. Waco and the FLDS set a very dangerous precedent.

They aren't going to burn houses down everyday, but they are going to feel very, very comfortable killing people as long as they are unpopular. No, not every cop wants to kill every person. But they will kill if they feel like it.

BTW: You don't refer to a burned person as a crispy critter. Shows a lack of respect for human life.

reply posted on 14-2-2013 @ 07:53 AM by Kadmiel

reply to post by Mclaneinc

Who is to say he never set fire to the place himeself. He obviously commited suicide so whos to say that he did not want his own body burned. The proof they call the incendary tear gad bombs "burners" is common knowledge in the police force. You basically have a mad man shooting automatic rifle at innocent people trying to kill them. In the end he deserved what he got. Even if they dropped a hellfire missle on him with a drone it would have been have the right thing to do.

hosted.ap.org...

reply posted on 14-2-2013 @ 07:56 AM by Grimpachi

Originally posted by Mclaneinc

Originally posted by Grimpachi
No one including cops is going to worry about if someone is innocent when they are being shot at.

The whole innocent until proven guilty dialog is for the courts it doesn’t have any place for those in the field who are dodging bullets.

They didn't have to dodge bullets, he was pinned down in a small building with snipers zero'ed in on any movement, the situation was as they say 'contained', unless he had a bloody big shovel the only way out was covered. Once pinned down the situation should have been turned into a talking him out thing, he could not have just snuck away unnoticed.

The fact they went straight in for the burning out is outrageous..

I have every sympathy for a cop on the beat, its a bad world out there with danger 24/7 but what went on here smells like BS and lets not forget there's 2 women shot up by over zealous Police.

A bad day for the force all around...

Dorner didn’t have to stay in there he could have surrendered but he chose to die. No one tied him up and set him on fire. He committed suicide as far as I am concerned. I bet the autopsy will show Dorner shot himself rather than give up.

I know there is a lot of speculation on if the cops purposely burned the place down or not but let us not forget how he came to be in there to begin with.

I do not have any sympathy for murderers. Look on the bright side if they cremate the rest of him they should get a half of as a discount.

I remember many years ago a group barricaded themselves in a building that they had reinforced with steel plating finally the police dropped dynamite down the chimney where they used way too much and destroyed he entire block. If Dorner had taken a hostage then this would have gone differently but none I don’t see them being willing to put themselves in harm’s way for Dorners sake any more than they needed to especially with news coming in that one of the cops he just shoot had died. The one that was injured I heard that he stayed there on seen at the cabin.

There is a long list of victims and people to feel sorry for including the guy who was carjacked and the homeowner whose house burned down but Dorner isn’t on that list.

edit on 14-2-2013 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 14-2-2013 @ 08:15 AM by Mobidinc

reply to post by jimmyx

part of the job, its not all about doughnuts.

reply posted on 14-2-2013 @ 08:46 AM by butcherguy

reply to post by Grimpachi

I don’t see them being willing to put themselves in harm’s way for Dorners sake any more than they needed to especially with news coming in that one of the cops he just shoot had died.

I think that was painfully obvious when they shot up several cars due to 'mistaken identity' including shooting a 71 year old lady in the back twice.
Mistaken identity when the people that they are shooting at are a white guy and a 71 year old lady. The vehicles they were in were not matches by way of color or make/model.

Jumpy much, COPS?

Just who was in harm's way in these situations?

It is also very obvious that the cops wanted Dorner to die from the start of this thing.

reply posted on 14-2-2013 @ 08:51 AM by MrWendal

Originally posted by pacifier2012
He is a killer, he's on record as having killed and planning to kill more. If he's holed up, the duty the Police have to protect me is to do whatever they need to to take him down by whatever means is the least risk to them. Shot, burn, blow up, whatever.

If I was my house, I have insurance and I'd say go ahead. Finish this already..

Does your comment mean your precious house and material possessions are more important to you than the lives of Police Officers attempting to take out a killer?

You are a very sick and selfish person. Money and material things will be a curse around your neck all your life.

I am shocked by your statement.

I am shocked that people starred your comment.

You call others sick? Have you ever heard of "due process of law?"

The Cops job is not to "end it and come home safe". The Cops job is to investigate crime and uphold and enforce the rule of LAW. That's it. There is no part of the job description that says "come home to your family when you're done". Being a Police Officer is a very high risk job, they know that going in. - This is why just after 911 we called our Police, Firefighters and first responders of ALL kinds- Heros.

So by using your logic of the Officer's job description are you suggesting our Police are not heros and are a bunch of wussies? They out number, out gun, and have surrounded a single man. Are they such wussies that they have to ignore the law entirely, be his judge and jury, and set the house on fire to kill him?

Of course we want our Officers to make it home safe to their families, but we want them to uphold and enforce our laws first and for most. That takes priority- ALWAYS.

I am amazed at not only your repsonse- but the response of others. What we have seen in this case is a blatant execution by Government of an American Citizen without any due process of law, in a completely unprecedented fashion. They set out drones to look for this guy- into our skies to spy on us all, to catch one man.

Think about that carefully.

We allowed drones to spy on us all, to look for one single person.

I no longer have any doubts that the people of this Country will BEG for their own enslavement. The people willingly will give up their rights- it just takes the right crisis to do it.

I am not defending this Donner person. Not one bit. However, he was a person and he still had rights.

The history of mass murders and serial killers in this country is a long one. They can be and have been caught before without having to violate the rights of the public to capture them. Fact is, Donner was a threat to the establishment- and when you threaten the establishment, your rights mean nothing.

The Police opened fire on civilians in order to get this guy. The shot at anyone they THOUGHT might be this guy. It is obvious the intent here was never to capture or arrest him - which is the job of a Police Officer, "to preserve LIFE", even if that life is a cop killer. The intent from day one was to kill him. I have no doubt they burned the place down, no doubt at all, and they were wrong to do it.

reply posted on 14-2-2013 @ 08:52 AM by butcherguy

reply to post by Kadmiel

Even if they dropped a hellfire missle on him with a drone it would have been have the right thing to do.

Good.

That is exactly what the government wants you to say, because that is exactly what they would like to do. If you don't have a problem with it, they can certainly convince more people to look at it the same way.

When they blow up the house next to your loved ones die, just remember that you wanted it.... and your loved ones are 'collateral damage'.

reply posted on 14-2-2013 @ 08:59 AM by mutatismutandis

Originally posted by pacifier2012
He is a killer, he's on record as having killed and planning to kill more. If he's holed up, the duty the Police have to protect me is to do whatever they need to to take him down by whatever means is the least risk to them. Shot, burn, blow up, whatever.

If I was my house, I have insurance and I'd say go ahead. Finish this already..

Does your comment mean your precious house and material possessions are more important to you than the lives of Police Officers attempting to take out a killer?

You are a very sick and selfish person. Money and material things will be a curse around your neck all your life.

Regardless of the backstory, this man was still a citizen of this country. Being so gives him the right to a fair trial and to confront his accusers regardless of his mental statis or actions. These police circumvented the law, the very thing that drove this man insane in the first place...and you call the OP sick when you support this?

Im not defending this man's actions in any way, shape, or form...but we have our laws and policies in place for a reason and by allowing the very people that are payed to uphold them to get away with the same "murder" is absolutely appalling.

Though he admitted his crimes, until he is sentenced by his peers this man is still a citizen, former officer, and former member of the military. By them committing the same act they sought to prevent that is exactly how he died...a citizen, former officer, and former member of the military.

All because the authorities jumped the gun instead of allowing the system to do exactly what it was there for.

It is because of their actions that this man quite possibly died a hero in the minds of many instead of dying in prison as the murderer the justice system would have sentenced him as.

edit on 14-2-2013 by mutatismutandis because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 14-2-2013 @ 09:15 AM by YouSir

Originally posted by bodybagPAT
Siiiiigh....

none of you get this.

You are all so ridiculous;

Now hear me out, heres the issue, You all have your panties in a jam, call me an inbred. I'm called mentally unstable inbred, I'm inbred. I think differently than you, I have roid rage. I live in Los Angeles in some trailer with a banjo, inbred, used roids, roids to kick some chumps ass.

Times like these I do hope the government is taking all your names and soon to arrest you all and take you to FEMA camps.

bodybagPAT
edit on 14-2-2013 by bodybagPAT because: I ate so much steroids today, b/c I am an inbred.

Ummm.....out of that long diatribe this is all I seemed to hear................funny that....Oh...and something about you also like boxes? Well...I like motorcycles and sailboats.....go figure...

YouSir

edit on 14-2-2013 by YouSir because: I had a senior moment...

edit on 14-2-2013 by YouSir because: times two.

reply posted on 14-2-2013 @ 09:29 AM by InverseLookingGlass

The US constitution was dead long ago. It's theater for the masses just like religion.

Anyone with pull in the elected government or the shadow government or "law enforcement" can abandon it at will. It's only a matter of what you can prove in a court of law but those are rigged too. With the introduction of the "war on terror", Orwell's vision has been fulfilled.

The US is a Fascist state. Fascist states aren't all bad mind you. Just morally and ethically bankrupt. Don't kid yourself and believe TPTB have any morals or ethics other than maintaining control.

reply posted on 14-2-2013 @ 09:32 AM by Oannes

People don't go off like this for no reason. He had something on the police department. They were going to make sure he was silenced. One way or another.

reply posted on 14-2-2013 @ 10:33 AM by quber

Originally posted by Oannes
People don't go off like this for no reason. He had something on the police department. They were going to make sure he was silenced. One way or another.

Exactly, they were never going to let him tell his story and spill the beans on the whole department.

Even if he had managed to give himself up safely he would have been found hanging in his cell and have it blamed on suicide

reply posted on 14-2-2013 @ 11:29 AM by hadriana

Everyone deserves a fair trial, even whoever set that house on fire from LE.

Maybe dead men need trials too when charged with murder...i am starting to think so.

Of course cops try themselves...the root of the probem.

reply posted on 14-2-2013 @ 11:40 AM by impaired

reply posted on 14-2-2013 @ 12:51 PM by bobwilson

Originally posted by ecapsretuo
reply to post by jaffer44

A short answer to your question is, it is not OK. Americans are entitled to due process. It is a dangerous precedent that has already been set with events like Move and Waco. A poster in a different thread pointed out other such cases, where dissidents in stand offs were burned, and the blame has always been diverted from the possibility that the fires were intentionally set by authorities.

Here we have seen the enforcement arm again take it upon themselves to be judge, jury, and executioner.

Armed and dangerous he was, and it is justification for Dorner's death. But what is with the fires, surely to end a standoff with death, in these instances.
The cops are too scared to come close... they lack skill and tactics but to revert to medieval method?

The conspiracy here is that the fire will be denied as having been set, as we have seen in the past incidents.

Sure, come on with your 'there was no other way...'

But this situation makes it okay now to respond to any (allegedly, perhaps even) 'armed and dangerous' person or group , by indiscriminately destroying the place and the life within?

It is dangerous that the premise could become acceptable to LE.

edit on 13-2-2013 by ecapsretuo because: (no reason given)
edit on 13-2-2013 by ecapsretuo because: (no reason given)
edit on 13-2-2013 by ecapsretuo because: (no reason given)

great post, my thoughts exactly. Its sad that people can't see this point of view. Many just seem to shrug it off and say well he was a bad guy anyways. They're totally missing the point. Thanks.

reply posted on 14-2-2013 @ 01:56 PM by borracho

There has been little evidence to show that he commited any murders. Any that they did have should have been presented at his trial in court.That is how the law is supposed to work here. Simply because the media said he killed so and so does not make it true. Those of us that were monitering the situation via scanners and other means heard what happend as it happened and are fully aware of the lies the media was putting out at the time. there is no reason to assume that they were only untruthful this one time in this one incedent. He was a human being first, an American second and as such deserved certain rights. Due process was ignored and the police commited arson with the intent of murder or great bodily harm. They did not want him to live, they held the fire crews back until the fire burned through every inch of that privately owned home. By saying it was the right thing to do you give the government permission to do the same to you or anyone else, assume your guilt and murder you on the spot. Had he gone to trial and been found guilty, then by all means let the punishment fit the crime. What happened there was not justice, it was a barbaric execution.