Big Bear police caught on scanner discusing burning down the cottage dronner was in and then it burn

Originally posted by Concealer
They are trying to protect us but I do not think this is a good idea to just burn houses down. That is never a good idea, there might be someone disabled and can't get out of the house. They should go into these places, not just set them on fire...

see i dont think they were protecting us..its revenge pure and simple..imho

Big bear? Isn't that where a bunch of hippies fled to in the 70's to escape and start their own commune? I believe these people were also infiltrated by the govt and have been deemed terrorists and have been watched for years all because they chose to start their own commune.

The coincidence is sort of interesting.

Well they said they saw blood on a mattress so they knew whoever it was in the cabin WAS injured.

They did not want to burn him out...they wanted to finish him off.

Originally posted by hadriana
Well they said they saw blood on a mattress so they knew whoever it was in the cabin WAS injured.

They did not want to burn him out...they wanted to finish him off.

edit on 14-2-2013 by hadriana because: (no reason given)

Did he say mattress and wall or just mattress can't rember ?
Was he wounded i dont think anybody else was in that house while he was there were they ?

reply to post by pacifier2012


Yes the JOB of Police Officers is to Protect & Serve (how many actually serve the public however? besides traffic tickets?), but wouldn't it be just as protective of your life and everyone else by just surrounding the cottage and waiting it out? I mean, he's not going anywhere unless he tunnels out. That is what normally occurs, until a SWAT team fully armored of sorts can go in there and apprehend, and at least have a visual on the suspect in order to confirm their theory. Without confirmation, there is no proof. Maybe he was already dead. Maybe he had hostages. Maybe he had a few of your relatives. No one knows, because it was burned. And if he had hostages, or any innocents in their with him that were burned as well, do you think any police force would admit that? Police don't even get jailed for wrongful murders, sometimes not even suspended.
By burning the cottage down they ruined any form of evidence he had on him, any sort of documents or reasoning behind his actions if his manifesto wasn't enough. Maybe Police should just kill on site all drunk drivers, speeders, drug addicts, anyone carrying a weapon legal or not, just to protect everyone else from getting hurt.
IDK, maybe someday you'll have a warrant out for your arrest, for dodging a speeding ticket in a different state, and unbeknownst to you an officer shows up to a house they believe to be yours, knock on the door and get no response, so they burn it down. And then realize it was your parents house, because they followed a lead from the USPS, all because you forgot to change your address to your Highlights Magazine subscription. But then again, maybe they come back later, or just wait for someone to come out or go in. Maybe go undercover ti get the $129 you owe the state of Montana from 2003, and today a rookie got your case, and used this instance as predisposition to burn a criminals house down.

emergency broadcasttp://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread925941/pg11#pid15923471]post by jaffer44[/url]


On teeny phone so forgive my typos....they said there were mattresses piled up and blood splatters by them.

This was right before the said to proceed with plan. The had visual in there by-i think-an armored vehicle with a battering ram that was punching though different walls on each side. They thought he was in the basement
Then later they said not to put fire out b/c they wanted that heat to burn down to the basement.

Originally posted by hadriana
emergency broadcasttp://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread925941/pg11#pid15923471]post by jaffer44[/url]

 

On teeny phone so forgive my typos....they said there were mattresses piled up and blood splatters by them.

This was right before the said to proceed with plan. The had visual in there by-i think-an armored vehicle with a battering ram that was punching though different walls on each side. They thought he was in the basement
Then later they said not to put fire out b/c they wanted that heat to burn down to the basement.

I remember them talking about penatration of the walls should be fine I thought they were meaning a snipper with a thermal scope and maybe that was the blood but the wall thing must of been about the tanks
Thanks

They were saying punch a hole... Annot see much this way because of a lot of trash bags piled up....then later the blood with mattresses. I figured he had piled them up to fortify himself at some time in the shootout.

I wondered if he had went to basement and if it had a door to get out and fire was used for cover to get him to the horse coral.

The cops had those blueprints so they would have known ALL that. I'd love to see them. They thought he was in the. Basement. What did that mean to them. KWIM?

I can understand a tactic of smoking him out but as army trained I'd suspect he would have had a gas mask in there, I don't understand the burning down however. Not only is the man innocent until proven guilty its very clear their intel was patchy at best, they had no clue if another person was in there.

Basically they committed murder, why they did it is another matter, revenge, fear or set up to kill him?

I suspect he topped himself when they set fire to the building which I can't say I blame him, it would have been clear to him he wasn't going to get out alive, dying by fire compared to a bullet to the head, awful choice but the bullet is the correct choice.

And lets be clear here, the Police acted totally incorrectly, no ifs or buts, burning the building WAS not only the wrong choice but probably illegal in its own right let alone the fact its premeditated murder.

Unlike many I've not read his apparent statement of his intentions, I don't know if he was treated badly when he was a cop, for all I know this is some sort of set upon the man, what I do know is that there's not been a shred of proof put forward to incriminate him that can be proved came from him directly.

The bottom line is that even if it all was true and he was this dangerous criminal hell bent of a pact of revenge there was still other ways to end this, there was no reason to burn that building, it was a deliberate act of murder and those who ordered it should be in front of a trial asap.

Police simply cannot turn Judge Dredd if you will, they are there to protect the law and the law says the man was allowed a fair trial, if he had died in a gun battle then there's no real problem, the law is entitled to protect itself but to burn the man to death and expect people to still respect the Police is a big ask.

Could the same happen to you...

reply to post by Mclaneinc


Yel well said I have to agree it was overkill and not a normal act for the police
I am starting to think there is alot more to this then a dead couple in a car.

No one including cops is going to worry about if someone is innocent when they are being shot at.

The whole innocent until proven guilty dialog is for the courts it doesn’t have any place for those in the field who are dodging bullets.

reply to post by Common Good


According to the audio, they lit the place up at seven points. They had snipers covering the perimeter, in case he came out. One calls in ready from two hundred yards out. So had he escaped the burning building, he would have been picked off.
It sounds like the place went up EXTREMELY fast, they monitored every single way out... he was going to burn. A couple minutes after detonating the firebombs, an officer reports hearing a single gunshot from inside: rather than burning or being sniped, he shot himself. this is the story the audio tells.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
No one including cops is going to worry about if someone is innocent when they are being shot at.

The whole innocent until proven guilty dialog is for the courts it doesn’t have any place for those in the field who are dodging bullets.

Yes dying during a shoot I have no problems with i agree with you
But that is not what halpened here

Originally posted by ecapsretuo
reply to post by Common Good

 

According to the audio, they lit the place up at seven points. They had snipers covering the perimeter, in case he came out. One calls in ready from two hundred yards out. So had he escaped the burning building, he would have been picked off.
It sounds like the place went up EXTREMELY fast, they monitored every single way out... he was going to burn. A couple minutes after detonating the firebombs, an officer reports hearing a single gunshot from inside: rather than burning or being sniped, he shot himself. this is the story the audio tells.

Thanks for the update :-)
7 hey is that about the normal amount that you would throw in a place of that size ?

Click here for more information.

Siiiiigh....



none of you get this.


There is NO conspiracy. Dorner killed police officers, and he killed the children of a police officer.

I get the whole 'innocent until proven guilty' thing, but this man said what he was going to do, did it, and threatened to do more of the same crimes.


You are all so ridiculous; that if this had ended a different way, lets say, the cabin was never burnt down and instead he just shot himself; you would all still be posting about how the poor innocent until proven guilty man was being hunted by the police like a wild animal and they had no right to chase him into a cabin.


Now hear me out, heres the issue (how dare someone come to a different conclusion than you! I must be a sheeeep!):

You all have your panties in a jam and think that since now they turned Dorner into a Crispy Critter, Police all across the nation will use this as standard operating procedure. Newsflash: They won't. You all think criminals everywhere are going to be burnt out of their houses until they surrender, but they won't. I am personally going to keep bringing this thread back every month, for the next year, just to prove my point. None of you will respond because I will be right.


Just like when you all said that Awlaki's death meant that the USA was going to start using its drones to bomb on suspected criminals who have no relationship to terrorism in the United States, I said it wouldn't. It still hasn't happened yet...and it won't. It never will.



and to the moron that called me an inbred (hilarious by the way, I've called mentally unstable conspiracy theorists much less and the MOD's delete my posts ASAP, this chump calls me inbred, I'm sure it won't get taken down) So lets get this straight, I'm inbred because I think differently than you? I have roid rage because I want to see a cop kiiller who won't surrender himself die? I live in Los Angeles you idiot. I'm sure you'd love to think I am sitting in some trailer in a red state with a banjo on my wall, but I am born and raised in socal. Not inbred, never used roids, because I box and have competed in amateur boxing my whole life and don't need roids to kick some chumps ass. Your pathetic.




Times like these I do hope the government is taking all your names and soon to arrest you all and take you to FEMA camps, but the government will never arrest civilians and toss them in FEMA camps. I'll be sure to prove that point too when I bring this thread to life every month for the next few years.

reply to post by jaffer44


Well until the coroner report comes out we can’t say he died from fire either. He committed suicide from reports of them hearing one gunshot right after the fire started IMO.

He made the choice to die there as for my own personal opinion I do not really care how he chose to die either way it was his decision to die by fire or bullet. Too bad he didn’t decide to throw out his weapons and surrender he had that option up until the end.

We can speculate that they would have shot him on sight but that didn’t happen so it is only speculation. I have no doubt that he planned to die he wasn’t going to go to prison where he would be raped on a daily basis.

reply to post by bodybagPAT


I know tomorow they wont burn all houses but I am now 40 years old and i have seen what things like this turn into
Look at tazzer's when they first came out they were used carefully and probly 10 years latter there tazzing everyone proeple in wheel chairs, uni students and many more when it was procedure.
And yea innecent people died because a few bad cops abused there power.
thats all it takes a fee bad cops and conplantency

I have no love or hate for either parties here, so lets stop with the BS name calling here - especially that coming from moderators who should know better. My interest is in the truth which is hard to get at and it shouldn't be.

Clearly the Sheriff lied in the news conference yesterday in regards to intentionally burning Dorners cabin down. As we've all heard enough on the scanners to understand their intentions. It is statistically impossible to deploy that many (7) of those hot pyrotechnic gas canisters in that type of structure without burning it down which is why they always have a firetruck standing by when using them. That along with the scanner voice data proves L.E.'s intentions.

It is a tactic that forces the suspect to act immediately, compelling one to make a immediate decision to burn to death or run out as an easy target or as was speculated to take themselves out. The one shot heard.

With so many questions left unanswered the Sheriff cut short the news conference, so they could take their time and taylor the truth to fit within the law and preserving his & his departments reputation as much as possible.

According to news reports Dorners cell phone became active while he was at the cabin and there is speculation he may have been talking to deputies or someone else perhaps attempting negotiation. Thus far I've seen no discussion of this other than the media following the news conference.

A telltale sign of when law enforcement is lying or fears the truth will take them down they quit talking so they don't make any mistakes that could implicate themselves. If they have nothing to hide they can report what they know and then add to it when more is known down the road, but if they have potential somethings to hide they have to come up with a story that fits what is known that puts themselves in the best possible light. So, now they are sitting with their attorneys and public relations going through each scenario deciding what they can get away with and satisfy everyone with the least potential damage to themselves.

Look folks when you tell the truth it's easy you just let it flow out immediately but when you lie you have to fit it all together carefully - thus is why they need time to test each potential lie to see what fits best to preserve their integrity.

It is times like this that our Constitution was created, as corrupt government and their police forces always had reasons to do such without due process. So, now anyone who challenges police is a terrorist and thereby to Constitution is null and void?

It is more blatantly clear than Waco or Ruby Ridge that police have overstepped their authority and betrayed their oath to uphold the principles set within the Constitution. When law enforcers ignore the highest law of the land they are no longer law enforcers - they are a gang of criminal thugs with zero recognizable differences from those they hunt.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
No one including cops is going to worry about if someone is innocent when they are being shot at.

The whole innocent until proven guilty dialog is for the courts it doesn’t have any place for those in the field who are dodging bullets.

They didn't have to dodge bullets, he was pinned down in a small building with snipers zero'ed in on any movement, the situation was as they say 'contained', unless he had a bloody big shovel the only way out was covered. Once pinned down the situation should have been turned into a talking him out thing, he could not have just snuck away unnoticed.

The fact they went straight in for the burning out is outrageous..

I have every sympathy for a cop on the beat, its a bad world out there with danger 24/7 but what went on here smells like BS and lets not forget there's 2 women shot up by over zealous Police.

A bad day for the force all around...