Big Bear police caught on scanner discusing burning down the cottage dronner was in and then it burn

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

Registered: 17-11-2011Location: FloridaMood: GrimMember was on ATS21 minutes ago. P 2,793  F 362  S 4,435W 35  K 25memberposted on 15-2-2013 @ 11:02 AM     this post   reply to post by jaffer44 Well he didn’t even come out of a burning house so what are the chances of taking him alive without endangering others’ lives? 

He may have been dead when they started the fire. That would be a good reason for him not to come out. You realize that they shot the hell out of the house.

This is all irrelevant any way. There isn't any question that they burned the house. The police treatment of folks that they mistakenly thought were Dorner is proof that they wanted him dead. The story is one of a hunt to the death of a suspect.

yep I still haven't worked that out yet I did hear a policeman say there was blood on a matress and wall but thats all he said so hard to come to any conclutions on that other the. He felt safe enough to be in the front yard

Regardless of whether he died by bullet or fire he put himself in that position he seemed like he lacked empathy based off of killing the couple it is a common trait of psychopaths he could have surrendered to the FBI he had a phone or even the homeowners he tied up but he didn’t. Was it the LAPD he fired on or was it the local police I am not sure. Anyway the gunshot was right after the fire started way too soon for a bullet to cook off. I am not excusing the LAPD for firing on innocent people but two wrongs do not make a right.

I think everyone is looking at this the wrong way. People have been saying that some soldiers would turn on our citizens and Dorner is a prime example. Either he had delusions of grandeur about his intelligence and couldn’t figure out how to turn himself in or he had no intention of surrendering.

His thought process; I feel wronged I am going to kill people. Oh well no one should lose sleep over his death IMO. I expect some people will idolize him even Charlie Manson had fans.

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by butcherguy

 

I don't feel anything for him or the families. I didn't know anyone involved.

I heard some audio of the wife of one of the officers and it was actually pretty moving. I generally feel pretty removed from this sort of thing too though.

I know that it sounds cold, but it is true. If I said that I cared, I would be lying.

My main problem with this is what the police were already getting away with has been escalated. I don't see Dorner as a hero and I think it would be wrong to make a hero out of him.

This was a case I think many of us can agree was not going to end with a suspect in custody. By any means necessary Dorner was to be apprehended dead or dead. His whole reason for losing it was because of the corruption that he witnessed so having him sit before a jury and talk about the LAPD and everything else he saw was not an option.

The man just snapped. Its a shame he didn't just write a book or get some undercover evidence of all the corruption he saw, but then again none of us would have heard his name mentioned a single time in the mainstream media if he had gone that route.

reply to post by Grimpachi


If one of their 'burners' landed next to a loose round, it could have cooked off before a fire ven started.

reply to post by AwakeWeAre

His whole reason for losing it was because of the corruption that he witnessed so having him sit before a jury and talk about the LAPD and everything else he saw was not an option.

While I agree with that, I think the main reason he wasn't getting captured alive was because he killed cops. I don't think a murderer talking about injustice and corruption is going to hold much weight in the publics opinion.

reply to post by Grimpachi


You have been very well spoke. Grimp :-)
The problem is we have to look at this without dorner as main subject line.
You already assume he killed the people in the carpark and he may have.
I will never know now what happend.
There are many questions about the manifesto so we wont discuse that
There are many questions about the couple in the car so we won't discuse that.
I listened to some audio that to me shows damming evedence that the police burnt that house down on purpose at a point in time when none of them were under fire.
Why was no nigoteator send in to try and talk hime down ?
Weather he was killed through stupididy or because of a conspicy we will now never know.

I'm from australia I am sure you have heard of the Chambilins and the dingo stole my baby thing.
Well for years people would beat you up and hate you even spit at you if you said you didnt think she killed the baby.
People would show all this evedence that the police gave the media and you couldnt debate it because the news and police said so.
20 years latter they have to let her out of jail give her millions of dollers because we found out the police fabricated evedence.
Why because the NT govnment didn't want to dammge there turist trade to The rock.
This is why no one is above the law.
Were there is power there sill coruption it is crazy to think there isn't
The law alows us to keep check on things when they kill suspects they are destroying evedence

Originally posted by pacifier2012
He is a killer, he's on record as having killed and planning to kill more. If he's holed up, the duty the Police have to protect me is to do whatever they need to to take him down by whatever means is the least risk to them. Shot, burn, blow up, whatever.

If I was my house, I have insurance and I'd say go ahead. Finish this already..

Does your comment mean your precious house and material possessions are more important to you than the lives of Police Officers attempting to take out a killer?

You are a very sick and selfish person. Money and material things will be a curse around your neck all your life.

they admitted they were going to review his grievances so why not just surround the house and wait him out? I'll answer that for you- because he killed fellow officers and that's a death sentence. do not pass go, do not collect $200

reply to post by Domo1


If someone rapes or kills my kid i'm not alowed to go out and just kill them.
Thats what the police and courts are for to find out if he was justerfied in the killing.
No emotion i might kill the wrong person
This is why they can't just kill because they think its ok

reply to post by ecapsretuo


notice how they refer to him as "cop killer" on the nightly news. you shoot a cop and you're a dead man period

reply to post by bottleslingguy


What makes a police officer life anymore important then me and my family ?

reply to post by jaffer44


But the cops did know it was him and he needed to be stopped. At any cost. I'm glad they did it. People trying to say the cops have no right to burn the cabin and force him out (or do himself in) didn't have their loved one killed by this maniac. Good riddance. Dorner created this whole situation and I'm sure he knew how this would end.

reply to post by Lynzer


Sigh
This is not about dorner

reply to post by Lynzer


Nobody has said the cops dont have a right to get him out the cabin.
I' bet the people who lost there loved ones wouldn't want to see other innecent people die while trying to get him.
Burnning that house had the potential to kill others they were lucky this time.
I suppose you think it was alright to shoot the car up in there rush to catch him ?

It's arson, and murder, in my opinion. I believe that law enforcement was acting under the color of law in Dorner's death, and that is a crime. Or will someone show me in the police training where it is legal for them to burn down a building to get to a criminal? No, I only heard an anecdote about burning down a village from a Batman movie, not real life.

Chapter 13 - Civil Rights

Section 242, Deprivation of rights under color of law

Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation,
or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory,
Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any
rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the
Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different
punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such person being
an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, than are prescribed
for the punishment of citizens, shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury
results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if
such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a
dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this
title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death
results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if
such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated
sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or
an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned
for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to
death.

Dorner could have been captured, put on trial, gone to death row, executed by the state. Due process; he had civil rights coming to him because he was a citizen of the USA. It was what everybody needs in a real American justice system, even when they are a homicidal maniac. You don't want it to become acceptable for law enforcement to form lynch mobs and murder under their embroidered time because they have strong feelings against a criminal and a million dollars of motivation. That's a step towards anarchy.

The Aurora shooter is getting trial, and he killed more people than Dorner. Everybody on death row got trial. Dorner deserved trial, even though the murders were obvious. It would have been quick, but the police broke the law doing it this way. I am disappointed that they weren't smart enough to get him in a professional manner.

reply to post by jaffer44


Thanks and I enjoy open conversations.
I am sure it could have been handled differently but from what I saw just from his actions that day he did not act as a man that was innocent. He didn’t seem concerned with clearing his name of any charges of recent doings so I think it is a safe bet that it was his manifesto and he did kill multiple people he defiantly killed one that day. I believe he had decided that his time was up reports that he turned on his phone while driving in the stolen car is like saying come and get me. He could have used that phone to announce his surrender but none of his actions show that to be his intentions. The tears gas very well could have started the fire that isn’t to say they didn’t purposely throw them where there was a better chance of doing just that. I can imagine throwing one on a bed would have a good chance of starting a fire.

The story we heard from the press may not be completely true but I think there is enough truth to it to say he was not a good man. I had thought about how others said he seemed friendly and nice but if I remember correctly Ted Bundy was considered very charming. He had been passed up for promotion twice in the Navy so there is a pattern that has emerged that tells a different story than what his manifesto portrayed him as. How much can you trust a man’s story when he has shown that he will kill because he is upset? I am inclined to believe he didn’t belong in a position of power and others could see that as well.

Anyway when more information is released then maybe thing will be clearer but the average viewer of these events has a short attention span virtually everything about SH has stopped being talked about. The next event will drown out this one I am sure.

reply to post by Sandalphon


Well said you summed it all up very well

reply to post by Grimpachi


I like analigy with Ted Bundy you a right aboht that.
I think he was in politics at one stage was 't he.
Thats a good exemple of why every one has to obay the laws

Originally posted by jaffer44
reply to post by bottleslingguy

 

What makes a police officer life anymore important then me and my family ?

I'm not supporting that way of thinking. Just pointing out that's how THEY think.

It would be so good if everyone valued our soldiers lives as much as they do the police.
Maybe they wouldn't be off fighting all these wars if people felt that passiont about it