Is it acceptable to live together when your not married?

sait4God with all due respect you are qouting the Old Testament.... not saying that thats obsolete now but the Old Testament also contains versus about slavery and other unslightly things for us now a days.


when i say "marriage" as in the man construct... i mean... the paper part.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Saint4God posted something from leviticus about not marrying prostitutes or divorced women. So...being a prostitute is okay with God? And being with a prostitute is okay? But, prostitutes are some kind of scum that aren't allowed to marry? They are less than others? The whole argument is pathetic! So in your world, prostitutes were put here for man's pleasure, but they are not fit to live a normal life? Didn't you see Pretty Woman? LMAO!

Sir your arguement is not with me if you have a problem with the quote...nor is it "my world"

And divorced women are some kind of less than human scum? What if they were abused by their husbands? What if they were repeatedly beaten? raped? tortured? What if their husband's molestesd their children? This woman doesn't have a right to leave this man? She doesn't have a right to marry again? She has become some kind of horrible person because she is a victim of someone else's abuse? Again, another pathetic bunch of crap created by man not God so that men can abuse women and get away with it and continue to do it because they are not allowed to divorce. You are out of your mind!

Religion makes me sick and Christians make me even sicker.....

I believe you'll find the answer to the questions you have above already written in the Book. I doubt my "frame-by-frame" answering of each will change your perspecitve on Christians making you sicker so I have no incentive to take the time.

But according to Saint4God and Leviticus...it's okay to spend time with a prostitute, but don't have sex with the person you love or are romantically involved with. That makes sense to all you bible thumpers out here??

That is not what I said, nor what I quoted. Don't speak for other people especially when it's false.

Originally posted by krossfyter
sait4God with all due respect

Thank you for providing me more than what the poster before you has. I appreciate it.

you are qouting the Old Testament.... not saying that thats obsolete now but the Old Testament also contains versus about slavery and other unslightly things for us now a days.

The Old Testament applied during Mary's time, that's why I quoted it. The entire Hebrew society was to go by it as their practice. That was the law. I also quoted the New Testament as well in the discussion/

when i say "marriage" as in the man construct... i mean... the paper part.

Gotcha. A certificate of divorce is Biblical before Christ (after Christ, he told the people this was the old way and that we should not divorce). I see what you mean and think this certificate of marriage had either come as a result of the certificate of divorce or was an unrecorded practice prior to this directive. I agree it is the heart & spirit that counts, though I can vouch for the benefits of making the announcement of marriage public.

[edit on 31-8-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

This is true, but I'd like to add not to underestimate that tool. I went a decade without a church, but it wasn't until I included the important components of serious Biblical study/discussion, fellowship, worship, and witnessing that I truly grew within the Word.

[edit on 30-8-2006 by saint4God]

cool. i believe ive done the opposite. i use to be apart of that culture... but it wasnt untill i left it... i found more about God and reached him through other means outside of the man made construct.

sait4God with all due respect you are qouting the Old Testament.... not saying that thats obsolete now but the Old Testament also contains versus about slavery and other unslightly things for us now a days.

The Old Testament also says genocide is okay. According to the wonderful Old Testament it is okay to wipe out entire races of peoples. Yes...this is a very good text to base one's life on! LMAO!

God created everyone...but somewhere along the line decided to have different races destroy others? Was this some sort of game to God? OR....was it all made up by man? What makes more sense? MAN wants to destroy other races, colonies, etc.....so he puts it in the BOOK as you call it that was created by MAN!

"Gee Harry, do you really think we should kill all those people?"
"Well....it says it's okay in the BOOK...and you know the BOOK is what we are supposed to base our entire existence on!"
"I see what you are saying Harry. What about that Mary down the street getting divorced. What's up with that? So what if her husband cheated on her and beat her up on a weekly basis...he's the MAN of the house isn't he? It says so in the BOOK! Now she is scum because she is divorced. She should have just kept taking the beatings and the cheating as the BOOK says she should have."

What a load of crap!

[edit on 31-8-2006 by Excitable_Boy]

Gee excitable, you didn't read anything in my responses did you? All the best with the power-hungry dillusions. Hope your soapbox doesn't break, it may cause you to listen when you're on the same level as everyone else.

I believe you'll find the answer to the questions you have above already written in the Book.

I don't get my answers in life from the BOOK. I get my answers in life by having character, integrity and common sense. I don't buy into the nonsense in a book written by men that allows them to have power over women. A book that treats women like they are less than men....like men are the bosses and women are the slaves. That's not how I treat women and it's not how I choose to live my life friend.

The poster of this thread just wanted a simple answer to a simple question...but of course, all the thumpers have to come out of the woodwork and explain how horrible sex before marriage is and how it's too much of a "temptation" to live together before marriage....because that's what it says in the BOOK!

Maybe the answers to his question aren't in you damn BOOK. Maybe they are in the minds of his girlfirend's parents? Maybe they don't like him? Maybe they feel she is too young to move out and move in with a young man. Maybe they can't let go. Maybe they are just using the BOOK as an excuse to control her life? I'm willing to bet a crap load of money that her parents had sex before they were married.

[edit on 31-8-2006 by Excitable_Boy]

Any advice for those of us who've yet to reach that mark?

The same that We were given,
Never go to bed mad,
talk share and walk beside one another.

I have been truely blessed with the kindest,sweetest and gentlest woman on this earth.

The same that We were given,
Never go to bed mad,
talk share and walk beside one another.

I have been truely blessed with the kindest,sweetest and gentlest woman on this earth.

Great stuff StalkingWolf......My wife and I believe in the don't go to bed mad thing also. I tend to be a little better at it than hr at times though....

I too am blessed with a wonderful woman!

Is it acceptable to live together when your not married?

I have a better question for you to ask: Is it acceptable for Bible thumpers to go around and tell people how to live their lives? If you believe the Bible yourself, that is another thing all together. I am asking.....Is it acceptable to be told what to do by these human beings?...(they are not gods)

If this is to be left to the Bible. If the Bible is the BOOK......what gives any human being the right or the belief that it is okay to translate it any way that fits their own personal agendas and then use it against people?

These are the questions that should be asked.....maybe for a new thread.....

Originally posted by saint4God

Thank you for providing me more than what the poster before you has. I appreciate it.

you're welcome!

Originally posted by saint4God

The Old Testament applied during Mary's time, that's why I quoted it. The entire Hebrew society was to go by it as their practice. That was the law. I also quoted the New Testament as well in the discussion..

true... but after Christ there came a new covenent. like you know he didnt come to abolish the law he came to add to it... so we need to becareful about citing or determing what in the old testament is still applicable to todays society.

Christ came and introduced a more circular shape to the word. not that before was a problem... but it was only one big peace of a bigger puzzle. the new testament (the second covenant) was the last peice. im sure jews and muslims would disagree.. but we are talking christian to christian here.. im assuming.

Originally posted by saint4God

Gotcha. A certificate of divorce is Biblical before Christ (after Christ, he told the people this was the old way and that we should not divorce). I see what you mean and think this certificate of marriage had either come as a result of the certificate of divorce or was an unrecorded practice prior to this directive. I agree it is the heart & spirit that counts, though I can vouch for the benefits of making the announcement of marriage public.

agreed.


[edit on 31-8-2006 by krossfyter]

Originally posted by stalkingwolf
The same that We were given,
Never go to bed mad,
talk share and walk beside one another.

I have been truely blessed with the kindest,sweetest and gentlest woman on this earth.

Awesome dude! Much appreciated. I can say that for me one of the things I needed to let go of historically was letting go of grudges. Since I was 5 years old, it was always my friends who had to apologize first. One of the things I'd learned about love is working to resolve ASAP, the sooner the better even if you're the first to make that gesture of peace. All the best to you and yours.

[edit on 1-9-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by krossfyter
true... but after Christ there came a new covenent. like you know he didnt come to abolish the law he came to add to it... so we need to becareful about citing or determing what in the old testament is still applicable to todays society.

Oh I agree, the two things I wanted to establish were: 1.) Mary and Joseph would have followed the law (Old Testament) and 2.) The old law was not written without reason. One thing that Christ emphasized was that things can be made clean through him. The old law was a simplification for people to stay out of trouble. There were consequences by not following "the old way", some of which were absolved through Christ. Yet, a believer is not to marry a prostitute (not ex-prostitute, but one who prostitutes still) else they are inviting all sorts of discord.

Christ came and introduced a more circular shape to the word. not that before was a problem... but it was only one big peace of a bigger puzzle. the new testament (the second covenant) was the last peice. im sure jews and muslims would disagree.. but we are talking christian to christian here.. im assuming.

Ya, if we could, it simplifies and makes the discussion progressive.

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by krossfyter
true... but after Christ there came a new covenent. like you know he didnt come to abolish the law he came to add to it... so we need to becareful about citing or determing what in the old testament is still applicable to todays society.

Oh I agree, the two things I wanted to establish were: 1.) Mary and Joseph would have followed the law (Old Testament) and 2.) The old law was not written without reason. One thing that Christ emphasized was that things can be made clean through him. The old law was a simplification for people to stay out of trouble. There were consequences by not following "the old way", some of which were absolved through Christ. Yet, a believer is not to marry a prostitute (not ex-prostitute, but one who prostitutes still) else they are inviting all sorts of discord.

Christ came and introduced a more circular shape to the word. not that before was a problem... but it was only one big peace of a bigger puzzle. the new testament (the second covenant) was the last peice. im sure jews and muslims would disagree.. but we are talking christian to christian here.. im assuming.

Ya, if we could, it simplifies and makes the discussion progressive.

Hi saint4God///

Yet, a believer is not to marry a prostitute (not ex-prostitute, but one who prostitutes still) else they are inviting all sorts of discord.

Is this actually written anyplace?
Where exactly does it say that?
Isn't that judging one for their sinful ways?
when we should be concerned with our own .
One way to show a man the right way, is to begin with ones self, rightous, way.
I have heard many real life stories about men and women living sinful lives(all sins...in all matters)and by the acceptance and humbleness of the other person, the other saw and followed.(not all, dependingon the circumstances)
I don't think one can judge a person by what he/she does ..........one can surely direct them in the right path(lawful ways) and maybe lend an ear to that person when it is needed or asked for...
Divorce is actually allowed in the New Testament, again depending on ones circumstances...for it is better to marry, then to live in sin(read this somewhere, i will try and find it)


helen

Originally posted by helen670
Hi saint4God///

Hey helen! It's been a while, good to see you again.

Is this actually written anyplace?
Where exactly does it say that?

Yeah, that was the Exodus passage I quoted. There's also a lot of New Testament passages that speak of sexual immorality and adultry (which is what would happen if your spouse was prostituting themselves while you are married). Paul speaks on this in great detail as a reflection upon Christ's words.

Isn't that judging one for their sinful ways?

It's not ME judging, no, I'm going by what the Word says. If you're saying these ways are sinful, then a judgement has already been made.

when we should be concerned with our own .

Indeed Matthew 7 tells us not to judge. In addition, it is written not to let your brother/sister stumble. If you're in love with a prostitute, it would make Biblical sense to share the good news with them and encourage them to come to a saving knowledge in Christ. In that repentance is a pledge to turn away from sin and try our best to follow Christ.

One way to show a man the right way, is to begin with ones self, rightous, way.

Totally agree.

I have heard many real life stories about men and women living sinful lives(all sins...in all matters)and by the acceptance and humbleness of the other person, the other saw and followed.(not all, dependingon the circumstances)
I don't think one can judge a person by what he/she does ..........one can surely direct them in the right path(lawful ways) and maybe lend an ear to that person when it is needed or asked for...

I'm with ya and experienced this myself in my own relationship. For some time, my spouse and I would look at each other and see what was wrong with each other, but fail to recognize how we could change ourselves. When we shifted focus to fixing our own sins and being good students of Christ, then we grew out of our problems and saw a huge improvement in each other and our relationship. Believers sometimes forget a healthy marriage involves 3: Man, Woman, and God.

I think you've got a right point about not judging others due to occupations and sins and appreciate this bump to ensure what I was saying did not get taken to that misconception.

Divorce is actually allowed in the New Testament, again depending on ones circumstances...for it is better to marry, then to live in sin(read this somewhere, i will try and find it)

helen

That is what Paul says about marrying versus not marrying, however, divorce is specifically addressed by Christ as this:

"Jesus then left that place and went into the region of Judea and across the Jordan. Again crowds of people came to him, and as was his custom, he taught them.
Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?"

"What did Moses command you?" he replied.

They said, "Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away."

"It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law," Jesus replied. "But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female.' 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery." - Mark 10:1-12

[edit on 1-9-2006 by saint4God]

Really what difference does it make to anyone whether your next door neighbour is shacked up with some bint he's not married to, or if anyone decides to set up home together without being married?
Does your whole world turn upside down when two unmarrieds get together and live with each other? - I very much doubt it.
We all have standards that we live by, just because we dont like what someone else does, does that give us the right to judge what they do? - I very much doubt it.
Get on with your own lives and leave others to their own devices.


G

hey, saint4God,

Yes, it has been awhile since we 'crossed paths' in the religious posts!
So how's things?

I do know of the passages in the Bible you are referring to, and thank you for that!


I guess I could elaborate on the living together and the marriage and the what is considered right and wrong, but doing this here, in this thread, would go off subject......
So,
Thanks again for the reply!

helen

Smurf! I dup posted... ah well.

[edit on 1-9-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by shihulud
Really what difference does it make to anyone whether your next door neighbour is shacked up with some bint he's not married to, or if anyone decides to set up home together without being married?

The Bible is not a law book to beat your neighbour over the head with. I think that's the heart of Christ's message in Matthew 7. Rather, as helen has mentioned, it's there for us to be a measure against ourselves. If your neighbor comes up to you though and says, "what do you think I should do?" then per your relationship with God, which parallels the Word, one should be prepared with a sound answer.

Does your whole world turn upside down when two unmarrieds get together and live with each other? - I very much doubt it.

You're right. I stayed with two friends for two weeks who live together and are not married. I'd not once told them "YOU'RE LIVING IN SIN YOU VILE HEATHENS!"...and for good reason (besides the fact that I don't feel this way). I'd be amiss (and a hypocrite) myself if I said I did not live with my wife before we married. Did I sin? I had considered us to be married when we first were intimate. If I did sin by this action and thinking, it would not be exclusive to this regard. The only reason why I didn't marry her years before I did was because we simply did not have the money to support the wedding and was concerned that our parents did not see us as serious in our commitment to each other. Perhaps it would've been better to wait until marriage (or marry much sooner in order) to live together, but hindsight is always 20/20. I was prepared however to accept any consequences thereof like the ones I'd mentioned before (pregnancy, STDS, relationship instability, etc.) even to the point of death. Is that not what we promise at the altar as well? Unfortunately, there are many who believe no marriage license means license to get intimate with whomever, whenever and to be without commitment to the person they'd joined with.

We all have standards that we live by, just because we dont like what someone else does, does that give us the right to judge what they do? - I very much doubt it.
Get on with your own lives and leave others to their own devices.

G

Again, it is not I who is the Judge, and I've already mentioned the difference between guiding and enforcing.

[edit on 1-9-2006 by saint4God]

They said, "Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away."

This is good stuff and typical of the Bible treating men as better than women. A man can write a certificate of divorce and send "her" away. What if she wants to divorce him?? Can she write such a certificate?? I bet she can't according to your BOOK!

When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery." - Mark 10:1-12

This is ridiculous. So Saint4, you believe that if a man beats and abuses a woman for years and cheats on her and does every nasty thing you can think of to her, she is not allowed to divorce that man because of this made up nonsense in the Bible?? Made up nonsense made up by men of course....to suit themselves and their own agendas....and allow them to abuse women.

This makes sense to you?? Or if you at least feel this woman has a freaking right to divorce this scum bag, you believe she should never be allowed to marry again? What did she do wrong? She is the victim....

The Bible doesn't look at women as victims because according to the Bible women are subserviant and are not equal to men. This is why kings used to have their wives heads chopped off in the dark ages...because men considered themselves better and the BOOK told them it was so. This is why there were witch trials in Salem because women that had their own minds needed to be dealt with....and the BOOK told them it was okay to burn them at the stake.

Take your BOOK and throw it in the trash......