Is it acceptable to live together when your not married?

as for a loop hole i would present the cases of Adam and Lilith and Adam and
Eve. neither couple were married in a traditional sense. if i remember correctly
none of the patriarchs were married in a traditional sense as they were all
pretemple, pre priest, at least through Aaron.

as all biblical stances on sex and marraige have devolved from 3rd century
church of rome positions i will once again resort to a quote from George Bernard
Shaw, " why should we listen to the pope about sex? if he knows anything about it, he shouldn't."

Magestica, I probably would have been more clear if I gave you more detail. When i refer to people not thinking for themselves, I do it because it is very true.

Most people who call themselves Christian, do so because they were told too. And most of them do not practice it as the preach it. There are plenty of examples.

Im sure machine will chime in here. The rapture is a prime example. No-where in the bible does it describe this event. The only way to come to this conclusion is to piece together several verses and lines from several different locations and different situations in the bible. You also have to be under the whole " I am such a great christian that God will protect me " thought process. Tribulation is in the Bible. Rapture is not.

So all those people who believe in it, believe in it because someone formed an opinion and an interpretation THAT COULD BE TAKEN ANOTHER WAY. They believe it because someone told them. They don't question.

I have to say getting married, living together, getting a house, and having a baby is a LOT to put on a couple at a single point in time. People change once you start to live with them. They change again when you get married. Again with a baby, etc. I'd say it's wise for a person to take things step-wise. If the couple has the fortitude to accomplish all at once, more power to you.

Fornication is a separate matter and for a Christian I'd say it's best to wait until marriage per directed by doctrine. Again, just one person's advice.

I've been talking to a friend who lived with his girlfriend without getting intimate. He had quite a struggle and resigned himself to move out until they got married. I tried to be careful when he sought advice, stating that ultimately he should pray and stick close to God on the matter. My main message was for him to not send her the wrong signal, explaining exactly the reason why he's moving out, what he's going through and feeling. I was happy to hear that before he had moved out, he explained it to her. Soon after, he proposed marriage. They're due to wed at the end of September. They're an awesome couple. I hope for them the very best.

Seems like he took a page from the Biblical playbook:

"But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion." - 1 Corinthians 7:9

Just remember the following:

Alchemy And Marriage



"...and they shall be one flesh." The sexual act is the very consummation of marriage.

Papers have nothing to do with it. So, if you join physically, you are married.

"Genesis 2:24

Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.


But if you want a quote from Samael Aun Weor, here you are:


"If a woman leaves her husband, then she is not free from him, neither is he free from her, since when a marital union is already established, this remains for the whole of eternity." - Homunculis, Paracelsus

Really, the human personality is contained within the semen, because the semen is the astral liquid of the human being. For this motive, every sexual union is indissoluble.

The man who has sexual contact with a married woman remains in a permanent bond with part of the karma of her husband, for that motive. Fluidly, the two husbands of the woman remain connected by means of sex."

"What is best is to eliminate every atom of lust that traps our consciousness. Only in this way can we liberate ourselves from the unfortunate Karma cultivated through past sexual connections.

Everyone that we have a relationship with, from sexual down to the mundane, has a Karmic bond with us. The only difference is the intensity of that bond. A sexual connection is a strong and eternal Karmic link.

You are bound by your own seed to the Karma of the other individual. Therefore, you will have to suffer the consequences and pay your Karma. You can do this consciously, by eliminating every speck of lust inside you!"

About that Corinthians quote...




Notes in parenthesis:

"But if they(bachelor Initiates) cannot control themselves(through Pranayama), they should marry, for it is better to marry(and Transmute Sexually through White Tantra or Alchemy) than to burn with passion(like the hypocritical Pharisees within the Sphere of Lilith who hate Sex)." - 1 Corinthians 7:9

For more extremely relavant info see this thread:

Alchemy As An Outsider


Matthew 19:3-12

And he (Jesus) answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Regards

Thanks Tamahu, I agree with the Bible verses quoted (without the parathetical additions and alchemal associations), that once a couple join physically they should consider themselves married. I would agree to amend the law making it so (as it seems Biblically this is what is being stated), though I'm sure that would cause quite an uproar as most people want to "have their cake and eat it too" free from any consequence thereof. But, I also believe marriage is a Christian/Hebrew institution that has no bearing on secular world-views. Okay, there should be enough here to chew me apart. Release the lions

[edit on 24-8-2006 by saint4God]

IMO ,
Marraige - The State/church sanctioned and administered rite is just a means for
the afore mentioned institutions to make money.

The Spiritual state of joining is much different. In some cases the time of living
together is essential to getting to know each other, in others it is not. In these
other cases (mine for one) living together is just a prelude to the public formalization
of an established relationship.

My own case is an example, My Wife and I met July fourth. By Her birthday (7-22)
we were living together. Sept 27th we were married. That was 26 years ago.

Originally posted by stalkingwolf
My own case is an example, My Wife and I met July fourth. By Her birthday (7-22)
we were living together. Sept 27th we were married. That was 26 years ago.

Congratulations! That's a testament of a strong bond. May the future for you both be filled with many more happy years . Any advice for those of us who've yet to reach that mark?

[edit on 29-8-2006 by saint4God]

What is the point of marrying? I don't need a piece of paper to say how much I love a person. It's ridiculous, not to mention a hit to the pocket.

so let me get this straigh.... one is married (spiritually) if the couple is phyiscal with each other... joined?

sans the legal (man made) aspect.


so according to this... if one is intimate with only one person ... okay they are married... and thus okay for sexual relations... thus in a biblical standpoint not going to hell.... because they are married... even if its not legal?




also.... I believe that once Jesus cleanses you... it knows no time. You are clear no matter what.... however one has to completly reject Christ.... fall back entirely.... not believing and renouncing the faith... renouncing Jesus's blood... to be dirty again....thus no help on judgement day.


do you actually believe that by accepting Christ you will not sin again? pfft.

do you actually believe that after accepting Christ youd be sinless?.... you will sin again.. im sure you know that. the difference is.. you have made a counscious decision to want Christ to protect you.... the blood to wash the dirt.... sacrifical blood (very symbolic).

you all cite scripture saying... if this happens then this happens.... for example.... fornicate and go to hell. but its not that literal. i can cite number of scripture that tells me... once you accept Christ you are clear.

this linear approach you all cite is very legalist.

the deal is.. you have to taken it all together as a whole. thats my opinon. i do not believe the bible is literal all the time... nor is it one dimesional.... its very circular. we only view it as literal because we are programmed by linear society.




[edit on 29-8-2006 by krossfyter]

Originally posted by MacDonagh
What is the point of marrying? I don't need a piece of paper to say how much I love a person. It's ridiculous, not to mention a hit to the pocket.

If you're not a believer of God, then I agree. It was an institution that was established in Genesis. Beyond that, there's no point.

Originally posted by krossfyter
so let me get this straigh.... one is married (spiritually) if the couple is phyiscal with each other... joined?

sans the legal (man made) aspect.

I personally believe this to be true. It's an assessment based upon "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh." - Genesis 2:24

Originally posted by krossfyter
so according to this... if one is intimate with only one person ... okay they are married... and thus okay for sexual relations... thus in a biblical standpoint not going to hell.... because they are married... even if its not legal?

Biblically speaking, people were to be married before having intimate relations.

Originally posted by krossfyter
once you accept Christ you are clear.

Ya, but that doesn't give us a license to sin.

"For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord."
- Jude 1:4

Originally posted by krossfyter
the deal is.. you have to taken it all together as a whole. thats my opinon. i do not believe the bible is literal all the time... nor is it one dimesional.... its very circular. we only view it as literal because we are programmed by linear society.

I'm finding out the Bible is more literal than I thought over time. Nevertheless there are parables and wise sayings also inclusive.


[edit on 29-8-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God


Ya, but that doesn't give us a license to sin.

"For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord."
- Jude 1:4

not a license to sin... i agree. one just goes on living there life in sin... struggling trying to not enter sin (attitude is the important ingredient here).... but one enters it anyways because one is human.

Originally posted by saint4God
I'm finding out the Bible is more literal than I thought over time. Nevertheless there are parables and wise sayings also inclusive.

fine. i finding the opposite actually. ive been a believer in Christ for 10 yrs now... (not long i know)... and the more i live the more i find out that its circular... how else can one deal with the contradictions in the bible? these are only contradictions if one takes it in a linear literal fasihion... but.... if one is more circular with it... then it comes together better. but thats my opinion.

Originally posted by saint4God


Biblically speaking, people were to be married before having intimate relations.

forgot to respond to this.

but according to what you said one is intimate with one person then they are married/joined?

so how can one be married then be intimate... they have to be intimate first... then they are married. cause and effect?

im trying to figure this out based on what you said.

thnx.

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by MacDonagh
What is the point of marrying? I don't need a piece of paper to say how much I love a person. It's ridiculous, not to mention a hit to the pocket.

If you're not a believer of God, then I agree. It was an institution that was established in Genesis. Beyond that, there's no point.

So one who doesn't believe in marriage, doesn't believe in God?

thats another thing... how "getting that paper" -marriage the final act on one being married according to the bible?


im talking about a man made construct. i understand that its not the paper its a symbolic gesture... however cant there be a symbolic gesture in perferct accordance to the bible without the paper.. or man made construct route?

just like reaching God..... some people think that to reach God one has to go to church... worship there.... but we all know that thats not true... we can reach him anywhere we are... the building of the church.... helps those who would otherwise have a hard time reaching God to reach God.

its just a tool.

Originally posted by krossfyter
not a license to sin... i agree. one just goes on living there life in sin... struggling trying to not enter sin (attitude is the important ingredient here).... but one enters it anyways because one is human.

Gotcha, I see where you're coming from.

Originally posted by krossfyter
fine. i finding the opposite actually. ive been a believer in Christ for 10 yrs now... (not long i know)... and the more i live the more i find out that its circular... how else can one deal with the contradictions in the bible? these are only contradictions if one takes it in a linear literal fasihion... but.... if one is more circular with it... then it comes together better. but thats my opinion.

It is interesting indeed. I'm finding fewer contradictions...as I thought there were in the beginning, now I'm seeing how what works when and why. No doubt we should have some interesting exchanges in the future if you're interested.

Originally posted by krossfyter
but according to what you said one is intimate with one person then they are married/joined?

I believe the proper attitude to have is if you are intimate that you should've had the foresight or recognition that this joining is more than just flesh-meeting, but is also a commitment to be joined spiritually.

Originally posted by krossfyter
so how can one be married then be intimate... they have to be intimate first... then they are married. cause and effect?

It's without consequence to wait until marriage through the church. It is with consequence to be intimate otherwise. These consequences could include but are not limited to: pregnancy, STD's, emotional stress or distress upon the relationship, questionable motives, and so forth. All these things can happen post-marriage, but the difference is the announcement to each other and before God that no matter what "in sickness and in health" you're gonna stay together until it's worked out.

[edit on 30-8-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by MacDonagh
So one who doesn't believe in marriage, doesn't believe in God?

I don't think it would be fair to say this is the case. I believe it's possible to accept Christ as your saviour, worship God, and yet not fully know what marriage is or how it works.

The Bible has many things to say about marriage. A few are:

"Jesus replied, "The people of this age marry and are given in marriage." - Luke 20:34

"Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral." - Hebrews 13:4

Why "until death do us part?" Because:

"At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven." - Matthew 22:30

"For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage." - Romans 7:2

We do know that the institution of marriage will come under attack:

"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer." - 1 Timothy 1-5

[edit on 30-8-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by krossfyter
thats another thing... how "getting that paper" -marriage the final act on one being married according to the bible?

It was not permitted to marry one who already had intimate relations:

"Don't marry a divorced woman or any other woman who has already had sex, including a temple prostitute." - Leviticus 21:14b

More about Biblical based marriage can be found at: boydfamily.org...

I do not agree with the thread author on one point. I don't believe a married couple should separate because:

"So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." - Matthew 19:6

"Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." - Mark 10:9

Originally posted by krossfyter
im talking about a man made construct. i understand that its not the paper its a symbolic gesture... however cant there be a symbolic gesture in perferct accordance to the bible without the paper.. or man made construct route?

The Bible states marriage is a God construct, not a man-made one. See previous biblical quotes.

Originally posted by krossfyter
just like reaching God..... some people think that to reach God one has to go to church... worship there.... but we all know that thats not true... we can reach him anywhere we are... the building of the church.... helps those who would otherwise have a hard time reaching God to reach God.

its just a tool.

This is true, but I'd like to add not to underestimate that tool. I went a decade without a church, but it wasn't until I included the important components of serious Biblical study/discussion, fellowship, worship, and witnessing that I truly grew within the Word.

[edit on 30-8-2006 by saint4God]

Is it acceptable to live together when your not married?

Of course it is. It is acceptable to live your life in whatever manner you see fit (as long as you're not hurting anyone of course). Using an ancient text, written by men with curious intentions, as a guide to how to live your life is ludicrous at best.

Saint4God posted something from leviticus about not marrying prostitutes or divorced women. So...being a prostitute is okay with God? And being with a prostitute is okay? But, prostitutes are some kind of scum that aren't allowed to marry? They are less than others? The whole argument is pathetic! So in your world, prostitutes were put here for man's pleasure, but they are not fit to live a normal life? Didn't you see Pretty Woman? LMAO!

And divorced women are some kind of less than human scum? What if they were abused by their husbands? What if they were repeatedly beaten? raped? tortured? What if their husband's molestesd their children? This woman doesn't have a right to leave this man? She doesn't have a right to marry again? She has become some kind of horrible person because she is a victim of someone else's abuse? Again, another pathetic bunch of crap created by man not God so that men can abuse women and get away with it and continue to do it because they are not allowed to divorce. You are out of your mind!

Religion makes me sick and Christians make me even sicker.....

Having said that, I would never recommend that two people in a romantic relationship live together. There?s just too much temptation involved.

And this little tidbit from Machine. So there's something wrong with having sex without marriage? LMAO!! It's 2006...not the dark ages. Sex is wonderful and enjoyable between 2 people who care about each other and God knows that....he made us capable of having sex and capable of enjoying it....and it's okay with Him. It's human beings that came along and decided that there was something wrong with it before marriage....NOT GOD!

"Don't live together..there's too much temptation." LMAO!

But according to Saint4God and Leviticus...it's okay to spend time with a prostitute, but don't have sex with the person you love or are romantically involved with. That makes sense to all you bible thumpers out here??



[edit on 31-8-2006 by Excitable_Boy]