Pastor to waitress: I GIVE GOD 10% WHY SHOULD I GIVE YOU 18%?

reply to post by MidnightSunshine

if i read you correctly, you are in PA ?
if so, then you are correct for your region. (i left late 80s)

Montana is likely correct for their region.
and i am in a southern, tourist region and i can tell you that we mirror Montana's statements.
kids are every-freaking-where working ... and yes, here you have to be 18 to work in an establishment that sells alcohol ... no alocohol, then they are 14 (bussers & prep) & 15, no kidding.

yes, the child labor laws are somewhat difficult but when they are working 5 hr shifts, it's not as tough as you think in this industry.
[before anyone says different, yes that young, with parental consent, they can]

reply to post by Montana


'Why are you having such a problem accepting other peoples experiences? Do you think everyone lies to you whenever they speak? What have I ever lied to you about?'

I don't I have a problem with your experience and I do believe you. That's why I told you about my experience as a teenage server, so you would know I believe you.

I have a problem with people saying it's common to be waited on by teenagers when it isn't. Most places won't hire servers before the age of eighteen. And Most wouldn't hire them because unless they have been working the front of the house prior, they have no experience.

It happens, but it isn't common.

reply to post by Montana

well said.
i do miss the days of "personal value", don't you ?

ppl used to negotiate wages.
i wonder if any of today's young adults have ever even tried.

i have worked in several establishments where the servers were forbidden from discussing wages because everyone's was different. that amount was based on your interview and if you were willing or capable of negotiating further.
industry standards are exactly what is killing this particular industry.

i'm guessing there aren't many of us left who remember such

reply to post by Honor93


Do either of you know if the pastor was fired? She needs to be. I missed a few pages and didn't see it mentioned?

reply to post by Grimpachi

You are not pulling me into defending the waitress but the argument for her being fired because of credit card info is completely erroneous. I think you just don’t like that the spotlight is on the holly rollers and you are making up reasons for firing the waitress. Can you even prove that the credit card number was showing? I sure couldn’t find a picture of it.

i noticed this also.
from the first postings i saw, no full number appeared but the signature did.

i'm not defending the waitress either and if she had cropped name first (before posting), she'd probably still have her job, however, i agree with your assessment --> just don’t like that the spotlight is on the holly rollers - and this particular leader's nearly inexcusable behavior.
it would have even been ok if she named the pastor but to post the sig was too much.

i am not glad she was fired but at this point, why harp on the issue?
she made an error and she was punished.
the pastor made more than one error, so what's her punishment ??

reply to post by Honor93


They both deserve to be fired for the same reason.

They both had an issue (wrong or right), and both used the name of their employers while publicly making their opinions known.

Stupid, and irresponsible.

reply to post by MidnightSunshine

to my knowledge, there has been no response from her "employer".
i'm guessing they hope it dies a natural death.

personally, i do think she should have her 'certifications' withdrawn and perhaps an investigation of the 'church' itself.

and no, not because she exercised 'free speech', but because (as the story unfolded) she intended to steal from the establishment by refusing to pay a mandatory fee.
yes, it was charged anyway but that wasn't her intent by any means.

and aside from her poor representation of the church itself, i seriouly doubt there is any biblical understanding in her heart let alone enough to 'lead' others.
and that's called fraud and there is applicable punishment.

Originally posted by MidnightSunshine

Originally posted by destination now
reply to post by tamusan

 

Yes, I agree, but I am paying for the service in the cost of the meal, so I do still pay whether the service is good or not, the only time I would refuse would be if the food were not of a good standard, at which point I would speak to whoever is in charge, tell them to take the food back and just leave.

That's the beauty of being a tipped employee. I'd never bring you a sub-standard dish, I won't drop off anything that isn't up to my standards. AND After dropping it off, you better believe i'm keeping my eye on you for the 3 minutes or so untill you've started and I come back to check. so I have an idea if the meal is to your liking before you can even tell me... And if it isn't to your liking MOST times you'd have no need for management because I'm very skilled at handling these situations. Nine and a half times out of ten you'd still leave smiling...

I could go on and on about the all of your ridiculous comments but I won't.

The one about there being no difference between a grocery clerk and a restaurant sever is pure evidence of the poor state of service in your country...

If I made as much money as i did as a server, i'd have to have you and your family have a seat while I ran around the store getting you what you wanted, taking back the things i got wrong or weren't to your liking, I'd bag it up, put it in your car, ride home with you, put it away, and maybe even throw a roast in the oven for ya!!

GET REAL PEOPLE

How would you know if it was a sub-standard dish? Do you stick your fingers in and taste it? And if the food was sub-standard first time round, no amount of smiling and fawning would make me risk a second chance, I'd just leave.

As for your grocery clerk statement, you might be surprised to learn that in the UK not only large supermarket chains will offer assistance to those who request it, by taking their list and going round the shelves picking up your groceries for you (this happens with online shopping as well, they'll even carry it to the kitchen for you and put it away if necessary...no they don't stick a roast in the oven for you, but then again neither do waiters, that's the chef's job) they will also carry it to your car and load it for you...you only have to ask, and no, tipping for this service is not required, it's part of the job they are paid to do.

Also in small businesses where customer service is important, the staff have to deal with all stock related duties, deliveries, stock rotation, shelf stacking etc as well as serving customers and will also go the extra mile to help customers if they request it, i.e. finding goods, getting something from a high shelf etc so your argument is just nonsense...

reply to post by destination now


I know because It's my job to know. I make it my business to know in order to increase your happiness and my wealth! I can see it, smell it, I can see the cooks preparing it, I see the food stock and it's condition, I watch times, and know how to prepare the food myself because I've been a cook. Steak temps are difficult to guess by appearance but it can be done.

So are you saying, for instance, if you ordered your steak mid-well and it came rare, you would leave?

I can't even reply to the other half of your comment...little off the track there. I Need to give that clusterfudge a reread

reply to post by MidnightSunshine


Well your reading comprehension ability is sub-par...I answered a point that you made about store clerks not having the same level of duties as waiters, I advised you that in the UK I can expect an excellent level of service from most grocery stores, whether they are large corporations or small businesses.

And I hear way too many horror stories about sending food back to be comfortable with doing that, I really don't want to eat a steak that has been (under) cooked, brought out, sent back and re-cooked..Yuck...so yes, I'd leave.

reply to post by MidnightSunshine


And another point, you've just stated that you watch the chefs prepare everything, how the heck do you have time to serve the customers then, as you must spend a large proportion of your working time in the kitchen!

reply to post by lupodigubbio


what a jerk.

That is why "pastors" dont get an ounce of respect from me. They are not special. Or nicer. Or holier.

Why did this woman deserve to get fired?

So she may starve, suffer and resort to a worse life, because this idiot felt slighted.

He only made it worse.

BTW....waiting tables is not "easy".....most people do deserve 20%......they dont cook your meal so if you dont tip because of an issue with your Modification to the menu (99% of the time errors are your fault for not just ordering something from the menu as is) then you are an ass, and they are the backbone of any restaurant so take care of your staff.......

It takes mental discipline, physical and mental coordination /agility, Public relations, psychology, business savvy to make a good sale, and a whole host of other talents most people dont have all rolled into one.

next time you go out to be SERVED....dont act like a royal pain in the ass.....Tip, it is part of going out you cheapo losers(exceptions excluded of coarse).....If not stay home, it is cheaper.....

reply to post by zedVSzardoz


It wasn't the server who was fired...it was a different employee who posted the pastor's credit card information online...

Since this thread had side tracked upon the root issue of tipping, espacially amongst tipping and non-tipping nations, let's then deal with the economic truths of tipping - Productivity, with focus upon the F&B industry and not others.

1. Everybody talks about a min.wage, but how much should min.wage be? In London, if you are paid US$10/hr, you can hardly pay for the rent. Similarly, neither can one hope to survive on that figure in New York with the high rentals, let alone talk about saving enough to start a family or buy an apartment.

A min wage should be sustainable, but for who? Employer or Employee? There's a difference. Sustainble for life of employee would mean more than $10/hr in cities. Sustainable for Employer means lower than that or he will be bankrupt soon, as he will pass on wage rise onto prices and consumer will either give up or have a smaller pool of customrers.

Thus, becareful when you call for supposed 'min wage'. The experiences of unionized workers being laid off due to such demands and the outsource and outflow of establishments would be a good reference to refer for consideration of such calls.


2. If one is paid min wage, the employee will work to the minimum standards. Unfortunately, there is NO real min standard in F&B industry, for each day brings new customers, demand types, creative competition, etc. The server is not the manager, and will only follow instructions, and not act upon initiatives. He is not paid or rewarded to do so.

However, if one is given a low pay, but unlimited earnings if he can help pull and maintain customers, it would make him crack his mind to work harder inorder to earn more. Such was how capitalist america's tipping culture came about, and is its contribution to the success story of innovative america where rewards awaits those who use their minds and hands.

Many american servers do make a lot of money over the weekends or on corporate functions based upon such productive model, so much that a 8% tax had to be imposed upon them to share that circulated wealth to keep it circulating.

Thus, in America, tipping had became a tradition and social ettiquette. No american will seize you up with a gleaning eye before serving you, but treat you like a VIP. If you feel you had enjoyed your meal, only then do you need to tip, but if not, american servers too know that they must be lacking somewhere and will not chase after you, nor do they chase after the poor, widows, unemployed for tips. Servers are humans too.

It is only the El Cheapos that make servers angry for their efforts and attention, whom had taken advantage of their good will, service and sacrifice of wages.

And it is these El Cheapos that probably cause establishments to come with Mandatory tipping, to ensure everyone helps contribute, otherwise the american system will have to be rehauled and go the UK style - low wages, lousy food for cheap price, snotty 'can't be bothered' service.

Fast food joints in US don't count and needs no tipping, as they do not serve you nor give you the attention that you deserve the way of a full scale restaurant. Nor a grocercy store whose primary focus is for you to serve yourself, or the cleaning contractor who does not serve you individually at all but your establishment.

reply to post by destination now


Yea, okay.

Here in the U.S. The supermarket cashier is the person who scans the items, and sometimes puts them into a bag.

Boy seems kind of stange...a country where everyone is complaing about their restaurant servers??

Hmmm I have an idea!! Send some of your 'SUPERmarket cashiers' over to your restaurants and you can have the best of both worlds

Please anyone who's reading this I suggest you click the 'threads in post' button and decide for yourselves about the type of member you are dealing with....shady shady business...

Originally posted by MidnightSunshine
reply to post by destination now

 

Yea, okay.

Here in the U.S. The supermarket cashier is the person who scans the items, and sometimes puts them into a bag.

Boy seems kind of stange...a country where everyone is complaing about their restaurant servers??

Hmmm I have an idea!! Send some of your 'SUPERmarket cashiers' over to your restaurants and you can have the best of both worlds

Please anyone who's reading this I suggest you click the 'threads in post' button and decide for yourselves about the type of member you are dealing with....shady shady business...

Not quite sure what you mean by that last paragraph...What's shady about me?

And no, we're not complaining about our restaurant servers, we just don't tip as the norm because we don't have to, as the servers earn a decent living wage from their employers. And I'm quite sure there are many people who have been employed as waiters as well as cashiers, it all comes down to attitude and making the decision to do your job to the best of your ability, not matter what you do, most people do adopt that approach, some don't, but that's their decision, not mine, though I do have the choice whether to patronise the establishment or not.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

UK style - low wages, lousy food for cheap price, snotty 'can't be bothered' service.

Okay I can only assume if you've eaten in restaurants in the UK you've been unfortunate, I have eaten in many excellent establishments and have had brilliant food and good service and I know several people who work in the food industry and many of them earn £10 ($15.72) and over per hour, that's way above the national minimum wage,

When we talk about minimum wage, that is the lowest that anyone can expect to earn for doing any job, but most employers do pay above that to attract the right staff, in fact the only industry in the UK that only pays minimum are call centres, and they have such a high turnover of staff and it's easy to see why. We also have an excellent welfare state (that often gets abused) but is also a lifeline for the sick and disabled as well as those on low pay and to add to that, excellent, free healthcare for all as well. Yes we Brits are bad for moaning, but in reality we know we've got it really good compared to many other countries.

Let's give everybody a 15% tip.
The toilet scrubber (Janitor)
The grocery stock person.
Retail clerk.
The car washer.
Insurance salesman.
The panhandler (got a buck.....15?)
Window washer.
etc. etc.

Why are some people tip-able and some get no tips?
I don't believe in tipping for that fact, but I do, that is why I avoid places where you are expected to give one, why does this person get a tip while the Burger King clerk does not, or the convenience store guy or whoever?
Yes, it is true, I avoid places where tipping is the norm. What makes one same form of labor worthy of a tip where other labors are not?

And does it seem right that a tip is charged right on your bill?
From optional to mandatory?
Talk about expectation creep.

Lots of people do good work, maybe they should all get an extra 15% for a job well done.
But they don't.

reply to post by Hardstepah


Talking about ignorant you should go back and reread what was posted you either ignored what was written and cherry picked or you completely missed it and the rest of the post went over your head. I told you to prove it and you tell me to research that is a copout and you know it. Like I have said several times before there is no proof the credit card number is even visible so your argument is null and void. I think that is why you are being obtuse.

Maybe you are just trying to shut everyone down with different opinions than yours ike you said you were but you need facts to do that which you haven’t provided any. You are preaching about free speech and you fail to see that argument works both ways so all your points are based off of false notions. Nice try though come again some other time.

reply to post by Xtrozero

My point is a forced 18% no matter what is wrong, and as a customer I can say that service is not always good or even acceptable.

If that is your whole point then it is easy enough to answer. Her party was 6 people or more and the auto tip is there for such things to ensure the staff doesn’t get stiffed otherwise it wouldn’t have shown up on the bill. If service wasn’t any good then I would complain however this wasn’t the case with the pastor.

Also please expain to me why in the 90s 15% was the norm and 20% is the norm today?

That is easy to. It was 80s and early 90s that it changed I have already said that once. If you remember everything changed at that point gas skyrocketed cost of living went up I will not go into every detail of economics here. Look you have the info on what the norm is do with it what you will arguing with me over it isn’t going to change things we have been over this before.

You are jumping all around here on the issue so I ask what is the main issue you are gripping about is it 18% forced tip on large parties, what normal tipping is, or the fact this pastor was called out and has been embarrassed publicly for her poor behavior?

I only ask we stop with that the normal tip is nowadays because regardless of how this conversation ends it is what it is and we can’t change it.