Pastor to waitress: I GIVE GOD 10% WHY SHOULD I GIVE YOU 18%?, page 26

waitress was presumptuous in automatically giving herself a tip. She angered the customer who reacted as one would expect.

reply to post by Creep Thumper

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It wasn't presumptuous. It's on the menu, and you are verbally told, that parties of eight or more carry an automatic 18% gratuity, automatically placed on the bill by the computer, not the server. Wrong or right it's what the entire party agreed to by choosing to dine there.

It was wrong for her (the pastor) to attempt to steal from Applebee's in the name of the lord and her boss. And people who agree with this probably just think everyone should be treated equally including church pastors.

Originally posted by MidnightSunshine

waitress was presumptuous in automatically giving herself a tip. She angered the customer who reacted as one would expect.

reply to post by Creep Thumper

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It wasn't presumptuous. It's on the menu, and you are verbally told, that parties of eight or more carry an automatic 18% gratuity, automatically placed on the bill by the computer, not the server. Wrong or right it's what the entire party agreed to by choosing to dine there.

It was wrong for her (the pastor) to attempt to steal from Applebee's in the name of the lord and her boss. And people who agree with this probably just think everyone should be treated equally including church pastors.

I disagree with the practice of forced gratuity. It defeats the purpose. Gratuities are indicative of quality of service, therefore, their amounts should reflect the customer's judgment not that of the waitress.

It is obvious to anyone that the pastor was angered by what occurred. Failure by the waitress to recognize this fact produced a predictable result.

A mature response would have been to talk to the pastor about it, resolving the issue like an adult. Instead, the waitress opted for a childish ploy which obviously, from the responses in this thread, appealed to the masses.

Some of us divine when we are being had by a master manipulator. The pastor's argument is sound.

Why, indeed, should a waitress be granted more than the church?

The issue of adequate compensation for services rendered should be discussed with the employer not a customer, a pastor or a church.

reply to post by Creep Thumper

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This woman was fully aware of the restaurant's policy before she sat down and ordered her food, therby accepting the restaurant's terms.

She clearly had a pre-determined mind set on tipping and had never planned on tipping in the first place, as is evidenced by her philosophy, that she penned on the credit card slip; "I give God 10%, why do you get 18%" yet, she left nothing.

If she had an issue with tipping, which clearly she did, she should have spoken with management about her religious objections BEFORE sitting down and ordering and eating her food. Instead, she insulted the server, for no good reason.

reply to post by Creep Thumper

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The pastor made a decision which was ultimately up to him anyway.

Yes SHE decided to dine with a large party. She knew it was not up to her what and if she would need to tip because of the statement on the menu. She decided that the rule shouldn't apply to her because of her faith. She decided to make that known. She decided to try to steal from a business in the name of her god.

Why would you defend that?

(see my edit to my last post if you missed it)

reply to post by Creep Thumper

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the only reason why this was included as a practice in the industry is because people are thieves that dine out and make you work much more for each additional person /additional service and then do not tip accordingly. If they had not tried to scam the business and the server then they would still be free to decide in for large parties.

Not tipping accordingly for a large party is the equivalent of pushing several cars through a car wash behind the one that did pay. The extra cost of service is not paid for and is theft.

Also no one knows that a server doesnt just get tipped for HER/ HIS service. They tip out busboys, food runners, kitchen staff sometimes and hostesses as well. We only get to keep about 65% of our tips. So really you are stealing from the entire chain that served you.

If you dont believe in tipping then going out is not for you. You should stay home. I mean that. It is a luxery. NOT a right. If you cant follow rules then you should not even participate.

A tip is WAGE in the US. Like it or not. SO if you disagree tell the waiter upfront when you sit that you will not be tipping so they can focus on the other tables that will be feeding their kids and paying their bills. You want to pay less, then you should get what you pay for. If not you are a thief.

Period.

Originally posted by MidnightSunshine
reply to post by Creep Thumper

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The pastor made a decision which was ultimately up to him anyway.

Yes SHE decided to dine with a large party. She knew it was not up to her what and if she would need to tip because of the statement on the menu. She decided that the rule shouldn't apply to her because of her faith. She decided to make that known. She decided to try to steal from a business in the name of her god.

Why would you defend that?

(see my edit to my last post if you missed it)

A gratuity is not mandatory. If a restaurant wants it to be mandatory then it should not be called a gratuity, should it? It should be stipulated as a fee.

Yes, she made a decision based on her faith. She is entitled to do so. Since it is a gratuity and not a required fee she is within her right to deny any gratuity at all based on her beliefs. It is human nature to judge based on one's experience. She is not the first person to deny a gratuity and she won't be the last.

I suspect that the waitress would still have been dissatisfied if she'd been given a 10% tip to bring her in line with the pastor's logic.

Honestly, this kind of greed is really distasteful. There are other lines of work if people don't like what they're being paid.

It is management who should be approached here. They determine salary and they are responsible for the content of the menu.

Bottom line, don't use the word "gratuity" if that's not what you mean.

reply to post by zedVSzardoz

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It is utterly absurd to label this theft. Everyone in the restaurant business knows what a gratuity/tip is, don't they? They know that there are financial risks inherent in the job they do and that dissatisfaction and loss are part and parcel of serving people in such a setting.

If you want a nice tip it works the same way as it does from the client's perspective. Be courteous and reasonable. Realize that things aren't always going to go your way.

Denying a gratuity is not stealing from anyone and those who think so do not understand law. You cannot steal by denying that which is voluntary in the first place.

reply to post by Creep Thumper

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A gratuity is not mandatory. If a restaurant wants it to be mandatory then it should not be called a gratuity, should it? It should be stipulated as a fee.

No matter what you want to call it it (gratuity, tip, labor cost, fee) it IS mandatory if you dine where it is labeled as such. So dine out else where.

I suspect that the waitress would still have been dissatisfied if she'd been given a 10% tip to bring her in line with the pastor's logic.

Her waitress didn't take the picture or post it online. And she tried (but faided) to leave a 0% tip, not 10%.

Honestly, this kind of greed is really distasteful. There are other lines of work if people don't like what they're being paid.

The pastor used deception to try to steal from an Applebee's and justify it with GOD (who i'm pretty sure is against stealing) and you call the Server (who did nothing) greedy?

Bottom line, don't use the word "gratuity" if that's not what you mean.

Or you could say the bottom line is eat at home or fast food if you have to lie, steal, and/or quote dictionaries to defend your right to stiff an establishment who's policy of auto gratuity you agreed to by sitting you large derriere down and eating .

reply to post by Creep Thumper

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I agree. The menu should be edited to reflect a "service charge of 18% will be added to all parties of 8 or more."

All restaurants should make this change, as servers are required to also pay a service charge to their fellow employees.

reply to post by Creep Thumper

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You have failed to recognize that the 18% was mandatory and the pastor knew this before sitting down and yes skipping out on it is theft. Notice the receipt has a space for additional gratuity.


She knew ahead of time and tried to skip out any way you look at it that is stealing.

Stealing in the name of god is still stealing.

reply to post by Creep Thumper

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Let's skip the BS semantics.

1. This woman is an american, grown up on american culture whereby tipping is the norm to facillitate better productivity of the server and economic survival of small establishments whom could not have paid higher salaries without being bankrupt and a loss to the community's employment rates.

This is something that most non-americans are not aware of, as they believe that miserly consumer conduct and high wages will boost the ecomomy in the F&B industry, unlike americans.


2. This woman is also a christian pastor, who grew up and accepted the collar of a religion that teaches mercy, compassion and charity.

She failed to lead or show any of such examples, had even tarnish such teachings by writing nonsense on that bill to excuse herself from the charitable act of tipping. And worse, instead of mercy, she demanded the immediate expulsion of the staff, not because of any security issue, but only her ego and religious falsehoods being exposed.

No true christian can side with her behaviour, but will talk to her and show her the errors of her selfish ways, and pray that she may see the light.


3. We should thank the one who posted that bill on the net, so that true christians may wake up and know the realities of who or what being had leading their 'churches'. Every human is accountable. Being a pastor is not a free pass to tyranny, to misinterpretate or misuse sacred divine teachings for one's personal gain.

reply to post by Creep Thumper

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yes we covered that. That was directed more towards people who NEVER tip as a practice. They are responsible for the mandatory tip being applied to large parties.

If not the restaurant would have to pay servers more and consequently raise their prices. You would then be giving it no matter what. That would be worse for everyone except the business owner. YOU would pay more and the waiter would be getting less.

Any waiter knows they have to earn it. If you play along with a person and lead them on so they focus on you and you get excellent service and then you refuse to tip you just stole their time that they could have invested in a more honest person that would repay them for their work.

reply to post by Grimpachi

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Funny. Looking at the slip, you can see she added 'Pastor' as an afterthought.

guess she should of thought about that a little longer...

OH Lord is she righteous, hallelujah!!!

reply to post by Creep Thumper

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I love that that extra space is there!! Most non greedy people who receive great service tip twenty percent so the auto 18% would really cramp my style!!

oh and i only use the word greedy because you did when you and your god loving behind thought it would be cute to call the server names and assume she is greedy.

I, as do most servers, understand that not everyone can tip 15 to twenty percent for a number of reasons. Most of us don't really care because the over tippers balance it all out.

Originally posted by MidnightSunshine
reply to post by Creep Thumper

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I love that that extra space is there!! Most non greedy people who receive great service tip twenty percent so the auto 18% would really cramp my style!!

I tip in the 30-35% range, more if it's sushi. I've never stiffed wait staff.

However, the general attitude here continues to disturb me. Perhaps it is "the American attitude" towards what is earned and what is given freely.

The pastor exercised free will and people are angry about it.

reply to post by Creep Thumper

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Wait a minute, are you American?

Yes it is upsetting that she would write what she wrote on that paper. It's like she was saying because she is the pastor of the church she can bend the rules.

The God that steers my heart and thoughts wouldn't agree with me attaching his name to my greedy attempt to opt out of a financial agreement after service has been rendered.

My God would not encourage me to order people who made my blunders known be fired.

Originally posted by MidnightSunshine
reply to post by Creep Thumper

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Wait a minute, are you American?

Yes it is upsetting that she would write what she wrote on that paper. It's like she was saying because she is the pastor of the church she can bend the rules.

The God that steers my heart and thoughts wouldn't agree with me attaching his name to my greedy attempt to opt out of a financial agreement after service has been rendered.

My God would not encourage me to order people who made my blunders known be fired.

edit on 4-2-2013 by MidnightSunshine because: (no reason given)

She got what she asked for. You don't go around whining about things like this in public.

She deserved to be fired. She put the pastor on front street without her consent.

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