Smartest Man in America says God exists

reply to post by manna2


You didn't link me to a reputable website. You linked me to a guy who made an article linking to YouTube videos as his evidence. Essentially you told me to believe a conspiracy theory.

Where are the peer reviewed scientific articles on the danger of fluoride in water systems?

Let me guess, you'll tell me that all of organized science is a conspiracy and that none of the millions of active scientists have the courage to break free and warn their friends, family, neighbors, or community about it.

All of this stems from your ability to be ensnared by emotional agendas.

I'm guessing you also believe that a secret cabal of evil governmental overlords exist who have been plotting the demise of mankind for 100,000 years, and they're called the Illuminati. And what evidence do you have to support this supposition?

Anyway, back on track... Fluoride has been in the drinking water since 1945 and no epidemics have occurred. Fluoride also naturally occurs in some drinking water at, or above, the level which is added to community water. So, your whole conspiracy falls apart at the seams.

That won't stop you though; because you believe in a global conspiracy to poison us all through our drinking water. And if there's one thing I've learned about having a belief, it's that you ignore everything which suggests anything to the opposite. So, carry on. Enjoy not drinking water.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

I don't understand how flouride is "on track" with this thread (although I am to be brushing my teeth momentarily).

Anyway, back on TRACK - I would like to know what your response is to the ideas and writings of Bernard Haische and Irvin Laszlo, posted last page

The God Theory

And whether you consider yourself smarter than them..

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I have no intention of disagreeing with either of those gentleman, In fact, for much of my life I would have agreed with Haisch, as I was brought up with Qabala (a system of Hermetic mysticism which closely mirrors his ideas of a Godhead which emanates through varying states of being). It certainly does make for some very interesting literature though. If you favor these types of viewpoints, I'd suggest reading some of the works of Israel Regardie, or Dion Fortune. They espouse similar ideas (albeit less science, and more mysticism) as the two you quote. The only point on which I disagree with each is:

Why must the Infinite be a Godhead, or a God?
Why must the Zero-Point Field be God's Mind?

I can just as easily accept the idea of monism, or of a zero-point field, without believing it is an omnipresent, omnipotent being with consciousness, moving toward self-awareness. If you take away God manifesting Himself in our universe; and the fundamental forces being His presence... you still have our universe, operating off of insentient forces, coming about through chemical reactions, and progressing just the same independent of God, faith, belief, or theology. It is similar to what I said in another reply on here: adding God to something which operates without God makes God unnecessary.

Am I smarter than the gentlemen? No, certainly not. I do not have a masters in astrophysics, or anything like that. But I do not need one to see a flaw in a theological argument. Their science is sound. Their faith is not.

~ Wandering Scribe


P.S.

Sorry it took me so long to reply. I've been hopping on here today when time allowed to try and catch up on missed replies.

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
I can just as easily accept the idea of monism, or of a zero-point field, without believing it is an omnipresent, omnipotent being with consciousness, moving toward self-awareness. If you take away God manifesting Himself in our universe; and the fundamental forces being His presence... you still have our universe, operating off of insentient forces, coming about through chemical reactions, and progressing just the same independent of God, faith, belief, or theology. It is similar to what I said in another reply on here: adding God to something which operates without God makes God unnecessary.

Yes, but what if the very motive or catalyst to creation was/is to generate the framework by which a shared mutual experience becomes possible, and we and everything that is, is here because of the love of God as the reason for creation ie: made by consciousness for consciousness to enjoy a shared experience of self conscious awareness, and then after all this time, and the great lengths to which this love has gone to make this possible, the first thing you want to do is to eliminate any such relationship by throwing God into the abyss of oblivion because such a one is no longer "neccessary". That is simultaneously the saddest, the most pathetic and the funniest thing I've heard in a long time.

No it is us who will be held to account for what we've been freely given, by God, and surely gratitude is an appropriate response to having been included in the first place - to then seek to do away with or replace God... I don't know... it just doesn't feel right to me, in my heart of hearts - like losing an old friend over an absurd and meaningless argument about who's right or who hit who first.

It's too cold hearted for my taste anyway, to each his own I guess.... but we just don't have a part to share together, sadly, and that's what I also find distasteful about this debate between the hardened atheists and the believers and curiously investigating agnostics, that we have to part company and each go our separate ways, because as much as I hate to say this, I can't really stomach you, because I find you and your view in these matters to be as hard as a rock, and as cold, as ice.

reply to post by Nicks87

I love all the atheists on ATS.

You folks always bring a smile to my face.

Your comments remind me that even though I may have my faults and vices at least I'm not a pedantic self-righteous piece of trash like you.

Thank you.

Instead you are a hypocrite who resorts to name calling to make himself feel better about himself. To call people trash when you not know a thing about them is what children and those with the mind of a child do.

Your welcome.

The universe is like a vast ocean. Earth is apart of the universe, so I am 100% certain that there is other life out there somewhere. Using ourselves as apart of the equation knowing life can exist because we exist. There IS other life out there we just haven't found it.

You have the earth just littered with life then we look in our own solar system and find nothing. Well that doesn't mean anything, because people fail to understand just how vast and endless the universe is! We know the Earth is just a speck, our solar system and even our entire galaxy is but a speck. There is clusters of clusters of galaxies that is just a speck. It's just a tiny section in our known visible universe we can see in the night sky. There is things so far out there that even the most powerful of telescopes can't see it, but it doesn't mean that it isn't there, it's not like there is a wall ending there. It's probably the beginning of a new universe and reality or dimension. It's hard to fathom. Are we seeing GOD when we look at the universe? Who knows! It sure is a good feeling though to be self aware and know you are apart of it no matter how small.

Every living thing contains God. We are all Vessels from the moment of conception until our release upon Death "at any point" during the course of our life cycle. Death is irrelevant, but due to the fact that it is an animal earthly emotion, we tend to hold on to our earthliness, and this is why we struggle and war amongst ourselves, and attach ourselves to any and everything that comes along that promises us all the answers to the universe and our immortality and success, instead of only looking within to receive the truth. And the truth is, that our "soul" purpose, as with every other living thing that lives within the confines of our earth, is to perpetuate all species so their inner gods can bring new life throughout the infinities of the heavens, just as we were in origin here on earth..The gift that keeps on giving...Forever

Everything living belongs to the same team, we all just have our special earthy ways of doing it, which gives diversification and splendor, generation after generation..

Leaving out the math, leaving out the theory,, There is no mathematical equation to god or our destiny, It Is, We, Are

reply to post by NewAgeMan

My heart, my reshaped Christian heart, cannot allow me to do that either because we are all one family, one brotherhood of man regardless of what we think about the nature of the universe and the reality we inhabit, which is surely much much deeper, more significant and more profound than ANY of us can even begin to imagine whether atheist or theist alike. Therefore I would like to humbly apologize, and extend a hand of friendship towards my atheist friends across the divide, while continuing to extend an open invitation to consider all possibility, especially when we marvel at the magnificence of the creation that we all inhabit, and if what I believe about God is true, he can handle not being loved by everyone, and loves everyone in spite of their POV, and regardless of our conception of God or lackthereof, God is still God and will remain forever God no matter how close to him we manage to get, and since he's already shared everything with us as a shared inheritance prepared for us from the time before time, he might even pass away.. (now that's funny! but I don't know why..).

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by Wonders

 

I like the clever changing of which post your reply links back to. Luckily, I'm not lazy, and was able to go and find my original post. Here it is. Now then, you say:

If you had looked at my signature, you could have spared yourself the copy and paste of your list of demonic entities.

Which makes me think you failed to read my entire reply. Here's a fun fact for you: your God was in my post. Specifically in the part you failed to quote:

Anu, Enki, Enlil, Ninhursag, Utu, Nanna, Inanna, Nergal, Ninurta, Nanibgal, Re, Ptah, Atum, Thoth, Horus, Isis, Hathor, Selket, Tum, Maat, Seshat, Asherah, Anat, Baal, Teshub, Telipinu, Kamrusepa, Hannahannas, Kybele, Yahweh, Yam, Mot, Nyx, Ouranos, Cronus, Tethys, Okeanos, Atlas, Prometheus, Aphrodite, Zeus, Hades, Poseidon, Athena, Ares, Ahura-Mazda, Mithra, Varuna, Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Ganesha, Kali, Yama, the Buddha, Guan Yu, Han Xiang, the Jade Emperor, the Dragon King, Brighit, the Daghda, Lugh, Morrigan, Maponus, Taranis, Bel, Sulis, Odin, Ing, Tyr, Heimdallr, Freya, Baldr, the Six Grandfathers

You just called your God a demonic entity. Which, near as I can tell, lying is a sin in your religion. So, congratulations on revealing the truth to yourself and everyone else on this board. Your God is just as much a demon as all of the other gods I listed. Well done.

Unless you were lying in your response. In which case, your God is going to be very displeased with you. What a conundrum you've gotten yourself into.

Also, there's no empirical, undeniable evidence for God's existence. Saying there is, does not make it so. God is not necessary for us to exist. Sorry to break the news to you.

~ Wandering Scribe

Hmm, just because your list has Yahweh snuggled in there that does not make it any less a list of demonic entities, anyone with a mustard seed of common sense would know that I don't think that Yahweh is a demon. You can accuse me of calling God a demon all you'd like, but that doesn't make him so. You are free to your shallow and pedantic ways..lol I don't care if you think you've cornered me, I do not claim to be a Christian and I did not say I was saved. If you think you've found a way to shut me up then you're only kidding yourself. If God's displeased with me then he has every right to be, that doesn't make him any less real and it doesn't make him unneccesary. Eventually you will see for yourself.
What you need to understand is that not all people who believe in God are like me, okay?

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Yes, but what if the very motive or catalyst to creation was/is to generate the framework by which a shared mutual experience becomes possible, and we and everything that is, is here because of the love of God.

I would have to say: which god? I'm not an atheist; I have a fondness toward deities from a plethora of religions. Yet, I imagine that if I asked you to believe that Brighit, or Nusku were responsible for emanating the Universe you would not agree with me. You would say they're not God. In the same breath you would instead ask me to believe that your concept of God is the only possible one which could emanate a Universe.

The ultimate truth is that no God—neither mine, nor yours—is necessary for the Universe to come into being. Oneness, or ascending to merge with the Godhead does not have to be physical, or scientific. It can be personal, spiritual, based on faith alone. The Universe does not need a God, just because you do. That presupposes that you have personal importance to the Universe; a preposterous assumption when our place in the Universe—as a single, insignificant planet, buried in a tiny, youthful galaxy—is finally understood.

I am happy with my personal god/s. I don't need them to be anything more than right for me.

That is simultaneously the saddest, the most pathetic and the funniest thing I've heard in a long time.

it just doesn't feel right to me, in my heart of hearts - like losing an old friend over an absurd and meaningless argument about who's right or who hit who first.

You may think of me and my worldview whatever you wish.

You are an insignificant, anonymous, internet personality on a forum of several thousand. A voice among a crowd which speaks through distortion. To think that your opinion of me matters to me is more telling of you, than you imagined these words would be of me.

I stopped trusting my emotions to properly analyze situations for me a long time ago. Emotions evolved to keep us safe from physical harm, not to lead us toward reason and rationality.

to each his own I guess

You are certainly welcome to believe in whatever you will.

that's what I also find distasteful about this debate between the hardened atheists and the believers and curiously investigating agnostics, that we have to part company and each go our separate ways, because as much as I hate to say this, I can't really stomach you, because I find you and your view in these matters to be as hard as a rock, and as cold, as ice.

Generally it is only the theistic-minded who cannot stomach me; mainly because I choose a personal pantheon of gods, over a Universal one. My gods do not dictate my morals, control my actions, make me promises, or cause my Universe to function. They help me to better understand who I am, and who I want to be. Science, in all it's myriad branches, helps me understand how the Universe works.

The final thing I can do is wish you well on your way. May you find peace, and oneness, with your Godhead in the end. And, may you not have trouble relinquishing all of who you are as a sentient, conscious, self-aware human being, complete with those emotions you so deeply depend on, when you do.

~ Wandering Scribe

The guy says he believes in evolution and still he gets attacked by the crowd that says "but you can't believe in creation too, or your almost just as ignorant".
That is too funny, and intellectually dishonest.
That is a really nice high horse their on.

reply to post by Wonders


Did you think that it should "shut you up" ? Because I didn't think so. In fact, my post was written expecting a reply from you. Which you have so graciously supplied.

My question to you is this now: where do you derive your notion of God?

You see, my list of "demonic entities" covered a fairly extensive group of cultures and religions: ancient Sumerian, Egyptian, Babylonian, Levantine, and Anatolian, as well as Judaism, Hindu, Buddhist, Chinese, Greek, Roman, Celtic, Norse, Christian, and Native American.

Who is the God you believe in, and where does He/She/It originate?

Also, for one who is "not a Christian," you sure could have fooled my by quoting from Isaiah in your signature...

~ Wandering Scribe

Smartest Man in America says God exists

That is at once the least surprising and the most amusing thing that I've heard this year.....On so many different levels!

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
I wonder... if atheists were given evidence of intelligent design, what they would do with that?

A rational mind always follows the evidence. What do Christians do when faced with insurmountable evidence against the existence of God? They deny it. That is what is frustrating.

What?! Insurmountable evidence against the existence of God? I have seen no such evidence other than people claiming they don't believe. I won't even bother to ask for that evidence.

They made the mistake of inviting Langan to be a guest on the "1 vs 100" quiz show in 2008.

Every question Saget threw at him, he tossed aside, as if it were a triviality. When his winnings reached $250,000, he appeared to make a mental calculation that the risks of losing everything were at that point greater than the potential benefits of staying in. Abruptly, he stopped. "I'll take the cash/' he said. He shook Saget's hand firmly and was finished—exiting on top as, we like to think, geniuses invariably do.

Outliers: The Story of Success

Why do people limit themselves to one God I always wonder? People here always talk about how there has to be a creator and how something so complex couldn't come together all by itself, like a house couldn't come together through a tornado blowing through a junkyard....

Then I think, well this house that was created, wasn't built by one person, complex things are rarely ever built and managed by one person. You need a architect,plumber, electrician, carpenter, etc...... So what if the polytheists have it right? What are your arguments against this opinion other than the bible?

reply to post by jheated5


I don't think that there has to be, or that there is, for that matter, just one god.

For me, the one god concept comes from my own sovereignty. I am one body, one soul. The earth, one body, one soul, and so on until we come to the end of the line of things we know, the Universe. We just can't "count any higher than that," so to speak. So, one universe, one soul. GOD!

God probably has friends and family, up there.

reply to post by misscurious


stephen hawking also compared a tv show that gave a very strong case that explained that there was really no need for a god to have caused everything in the universe to form. To me, this points out that one could get wrapped up in the 'wow' factor that the "smartest" (supposedly) man in the usa says one thing or the 'wow' factor that arguably one of the smartest people in the world says something that contradicts that person. I guess it comes down to a lot of not so smart people lining up "behind their hero" to try and score points for whatever agenda that they happen to be pushing

reply to post by Murgatroid

Oh, well then there must be a God because he's the smartest man in America, and he beat the mob in the 1 vs. 100 quiz show!

Atheists, take THAT!

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Yes, but what if the very motive or catalyst to creation was/is to generate the framework by which a shared mutual experience becomes possible, and we and everything that is, is here because of the love of God.

I would have to say: which god? I'm not an atheist; I have a fondness toward deities from a plethora of religions.

Well I guess the most high God, if you want to be specific, as in

"But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked."