The True Essence Of Manhood..

Originally posted by EvanB
reply to post by DoYouEvenLift

 

Whats wrong with machismo?... Its like women rolling their eyes saying "boys will be boys".. What is wrong with boys being boys? Do they want them to be contrite and compliant asexual drones? Then, after years of this kind of eye rolling, the result is the man is just an organic tool for the meat grinder because boys will be boys =bad.. Being manly=bad or even a joke..

THEN... They complain that there is no real men left!!!

Screw that!

If women can be feminine then I will be as manly as I like

Did I say that there was anything wrong with machismo? No, I simply addressed your point by it's proper title. You say it is "manliness". That isn't the correct term. Machismo is the correct term. Judge the term if you wish, but the term is being judged by you, not by me.

"Boys will be boys" is idiocy. What does it even mean? Are you saying that intolerable behavior should be overlooked in half of our children because they have a penis?

I agree. Feel free to be as macho as you would like. It is a free country, and you should feel proud to do whatever you want in a way that is not going to negatively affect others. I hope you are able to find what it is you are looking for.

The touchy feely guy you mention has little place in most aboriginal societies. They clearly have gender roles and I would contend that is a basis for society to be built upon - the relationship between men, women and children. Men are nearly always the hunters while the women do the camp work and raise small children. These clearly defined roles avoid the confusion that so many young men feel today.

Manhood rituals: you had to endure something difficult - whether it was a vision quest, facing combat, joining the men hunting, circumcision - all these served to tell boys when they became men. College is a continuation of high school for most and as you mention there is very little to adventure in what most young men today do, I suspect that is why many join gangs and do extreme sports. They want to feel like men. It's what were supposed to be feeling.

There is nothing wrong with men having a feminine side or women having a masculine side. Each gives us better understanding of the opposite gender roles. I think they make us more complete. I admire a man who can hunt an elk, fix a carbeurator. write a poem, fix a good meal or paint a beautiful landscape.

Good rant OP, a subject worthy of more discussion.

reply to post by EvanB


Men are being phased out. I don't see a need for us for more than about 200 years in the future. We are needed for procreation but that is about it. The only thing being a man accomplishes is counteracting problems caused by other men.

Name something we are needed for in today's society aside from procreation. A woman's desire for a man will be changed when they are modified to be self-sufficient. I know it sounds far fetched but I can't see there being a place for males in the future of human evolution. The male chromosome is the added element to make a male. The ultimate human prototype would be represented by a woman. The eventuality of humanity will be transcendence of body so, in the end, the female form will be a backdrop from which a person chooses other physical incarnations... even a man's.

In short, the true "essence of manhood" would be for us to gracefully bow out like gentlemen. You'll be thankful in your next life.


ps - Please understand that I cherish the male/female relationship that is required as an Earthly concept but I cherish transcendence perhaps even more. Having the essence of both within each and every human is a worthy goal that would secure our future.

Originally posted by DoYouEvenLift

Originally posted by EvanB

Originally posted by DoYouEvenLift
I have to ask, if this is all the Essence of Manhood, then, what is the Essence of Womanhood?

Why dont you make a thread about it?

This is about men...

But my view is that they want the same things as men.. Love, trust, to be noticed, to be a priorty, protected.. I think we all want those things..

edit on 27-12-2012 by EvanB because: (no reason given)

This is hardly about men. This is about machismo.

en.wikipedia.org...

If men and women want the same things, why are you pushing this artificial divide between men and women? Do you feel men and women are equals?

Machismo? That's a derogatory term contrived by feminist.

And your assertion that men and women are equal is blatantly false. Men and women are different. Get your chip off your shoulder if you think different means better. It doesn't. Nobody is talking about a superior/inferior framework except you.

Women want to feel safe around a man. This is cross-cultural. Men do not look to women to feel safe. Well, maybe wussy boy men, but that's what we're talking about here. How not to be a 21st emasculated wussy boy man.

Even in a relationship there is no equality. Who breaks the 50/50 tie vote? Somebody has to get their way. Men who appease women immediately cause the woman to lose attraction.

Obviously men and women are not equal. Women get pregnant. Men don't. Women therefore must be much more selective about who they have sex with. Men can have sex with 10 women in a week, get all ten pregnant, and have no consequence or responsibility.

Are you really going to argue that women and men are equal? Equal means the same. Men and women are not the same.

Most of the problems with relationships come from this false brainwashing by academia and the media that makes being a traditional man wrong.


Try reading Feminine 2.0

reply to post by EvanB


sorry i didn't have time to read the entire thread so i'll just respond to OP.
let me take this from a different perspective.
from a life drawing stand point both men and women each pose masculine and feminine quality.
sometime artists exaggerate these qualities. pretty much any mainstream super hero is rocking a six pack. the women in those comics are even worse!
think what i'm saying is our society has ways of warping our perspective on how we view gender.

but before i get off topic i'll post this link i feel is relevant.
www.telegraph.co.uk...

i'm ok with what the parents are doing in this article. but it's not hard to see why they had it publicized.

Originally posted by sconner755

Originally posted by DoYouEvenLift

Originally posted by EvanB

Originally posted by DoYouEvenLift
I have to ask, if this is all the Essence of Manhood, then, what is the Essence of Womanhood?

Why dont you make a thread about it?

This is about men...

But my view is that they want the same things as men.. Love, trust, to be noticed, to be a priorty, protected.. I think we all want those things..

edit on 27-12-2012 by EvanB because: (no reason given)

This is hardly about men. This is about machismo.

en.wikipedia.org...

If men and women want the same things, why are you pushing this artificial divide between men and women? Do you feel men and women are equals?

Machismo? That's a derogatory term contrived by feminist.

And your assertion that men and women are equal is blatantly false. Men and women are different. Get your chip off your shoulder if you think different means better. It doesn't. Nobody is talking about a superior/inferior framework except you.

Actually, NO ONE is talking about superior/inferior framework at ALL. I merely asked a question to the OP. YOU are the one that felt so attacked as to go off on a rant about feeling slighted because someone might think men and women are equals.

Women want to feel safe around a man. This is cross-cultural. Men do not look to women to feel safe. Well, maybe wussy boy men, but that's what we're talking about here. How not to be a 21st emasculated wussy boy man.

Really? All women want to feel safe around a man? You can speak for all women.. cross-culturally? You can also speak for all men, and if a man DOES break the mold of how you believe men should behave, you already have a label for him, "wussy boy man". Seems totally without logical flaw. Nicely done.

Even in a relationship there is no equality. Who breaks the 50/50 tie vote? Somebody has to get their way. Men who appease women immediately cause the woman to lose attraction.

Hear that guys? If you ever say yes to a woman she will immediately lose attraction. This guy on the internet just said so!

Obviously men and women are not equal. Women get pregnant. Men don't. Women therefore must be much more selective about who they have sex with. Men can have sex with 10 women in a week, get all ten pregnant, and have no consequence or responsibility.

Congrats. I see you have a basic level of understand for sexual reproduction, though I fail to see what it has to do with anything.

Are you really going to argue that women and men are equal? Equal means the same. Men and women are not the same.

Equal means having the same value. 12+4 = 16. 12+4 isn't the same thing as 16 because one is two groups of numbers and the other is a single number, but they both have the same value.

Do you believe men and women have the same value?

Here's an example of what a particular tribe think manhood is. The initiation into manhood is withstanding the pain of hundreds of bullet ant bites --- apparently one of the most painful things you can experience. Now I'm not bashing their way of life, but according to them you're not a real man until you go through with this ritual. Likewise in many tribal cultures they have initiations into manhood that include obscure body piercings, circumcision (while awake), etc. It's probably much simpler to exhibit masculinity in smaller communities, where the people typically lean on each-other.

In 1st world societies it becomes something different; because you have cities with tens of thousands to millions of people. Many neighbors barely say hi to each-other. The perception of male/female is influenced by media, technology, cultural habit, etc. Not to mention the time you live. A few hundred years ago if you weren't being manly you could easily get trampled at every corner. The spectrum is so broad that it becomes fascinating...

I think to be a man in our world you have to be willing to lose your mind and go insane, as needed, to come out the other end still a man, with sanity restored. In other words you have to be some sort of freak'n shaman prepared to go to any lengths to snatch the fire right out of the hands of the "keepers of the flame", who dropped the ball anyway to begin with so it's all up in the air anyway, and then bestow a boon of some kind upon your fellow man. We have to court the potential for disaster along the shoals of destruction, set up beacons and warning signs to protect our fellow man from the oblivion of absolute ignorance and delusion, while finding the right point on the distant horizon and manning the helm of the ship of human destiny, ocean spray in our face, cackling like madmen (as it might appear to someone else) while enlivened by a vital humor of perfect understanding in the utter simplicity on the far side of complexity.

We have to do the journey of the hero with a thousand faces - our society of woosiness and apathy compells it, or all is lost. It's all or nothing.

It's the truly Civilized man who's willing to go to the wall in a clash with any and all "powers and principalities" to secure for his fellow man the torch of liberty, and the domain of limitless possibility, not unlike a gateway of authentic leadership - like an arrow of Civilized progress unto himself who then says "follow me".

Thus to be a man today is what it means to grow spiritually even in the face of all obstacles so that we can, as Carl Jung said, "enter the fray with our ENTIRE being".

Today's world just requires a different type of hero, a different type of man that's all.

So the opportunity to be men, as a force of Civilization itself has never been greater. Relative to the abject mess that prior men have left us, the possibilities for something infinitely greater, are endless. We just have to evolve as men, even and especially when that means facing and moving out with courage into the unknown, and thus risking madness for the sake of what is right, and true spiritually and psychologically.

A real man is authentic and freely self expressed, without fear, and thus, he's charming and amuzing as much as he is powerful and a force to be reckoned with (what a woman wants in a man).

As a woman with both a son and daughter.....here I go with my 2 cents.

We are different. And that's what makes males and females compliment each other. From birth my son has been different from my daughter. The way he plays , talks, and everything in between is naturally more masculine. I step back and let him play the way he needs. He is very rough and tough, but not without compassion. A male has some instinct to protect, which he shows with me now and will transfer to his wife later. My daughter has the inner desire to nurture. That's just how they are wired. This doesn't mean she doesn't go out and kick butt on a soccer field or help with the lawn, it just means she has a different ultimate instinct than my son. And that's why we need each other as males and females. We balance each other and satisfy and inner need that's primal and instinctual. As a mother I do have to step back during father son time. He needs to be taught things only another male can show him. I can go out and hunt with him all I want, but it will never be the same. Same with my daughter, there are things she must learn from a woman that would never be the same learning from a man. People don't want to embrace whats different about us, instead we try to be these unisex drones. But men and women are beautiful in each our own special ways, and that doesn't make men sexist or women weak. Women are very strong in other ways than men. All this pc equality that should have been good is tearing us apart now.

reply to post by stonebutterfly


Ps . I love me a good manly man.

Originally posted by stonebutterfly
reply to post by stonebutterfly

 

Ps . I love me a good manly man.

Does he have to look like Tom Selleck (Magnum PI)? That's what popped into my head, not in a gay way lol you know, with the mustache, etc.

What's a "manly man" to you?

Really, we're all ears..

reply to post by stonebutterfly


Of course your children act differently based on sex, you instilled those values in them with the gender training you and everyone in that child's life started on each of them the moment they were born. That is how gender training works.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Lmao! A manly man....
The man that takes care of his family no matter what. The man that will defend me if needed, but doesn't go looking for trouble. The man that takes so e time to bs with his buddies once in a while. The man that fixes my car or anything else that breaks. Not one that shave his legs and plucks his eyebrows. The one that goes hunting and brings me home a beast to eat. The one that has the calloused hands but hold his children in the most gentle way imaginable. And and yes the man that farts in the car and locks the windows while laughing. He has to be able to put his foot down with me on certain things, but does like to indulge me once in a while to see me smile. A man I can't run over. I could go on.....

reply to post by DoYouEvenLift


I believe there's gender differences from birth. I don't buy into the programming thing.
Even our hormone levels are naturally different, it makes our brain and body wiring opposite.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by stonebutterfly
reply to post by stonebutterfly

 

Ps . I love me a good manly man.

Does he have to look like Tom Selleck (Magnum PI)? That's what popped into my head, not in a gay way lol you know, with the mustache, etc.

Really? Is this really going on? In what way would Tom Selleck [sic] popping into one's own head be seen as "a gay way"? Wait.. is this some kind of crazy homophobia? Like.. what if someone thought I was gay because Tom Selleck popped into my head.. does that make me gay?? I dont feel gay.. except.. I love him.. I think its the mustache.. NO I AM NOT GAY!! Dangit.. now I've typed to much about Tom Selleck.. do you think anyone will notice? I can fix this by ending this post with an

reply to post by DoYouEvenLift




Value is a perception, a belief, an abstraction that can't be proven or disproven, especially across the entire population of men and women.

How do you measure value? Does a mass murderer have the same value as Buddha?

Why is it so important for you focus on perceptions of equal value, or my beliefs about whether men and women have equal value?

Ps to all the men: the fastest way to destroy attraction in a relationship is to try to appease the woman. When women kick you in the balls, which they all do at some point, it's a test. If you try to appease them you fail the test.

If you don't believe me test it for yourself.

If you've been having trouble with women stop trying to appease them. You will triggers attraction in almost all women when you do this. And NEVER be jealous, needy, or insecure. That's game over. Done. There are plenty of men out there who women can choose to be with who don't act jealous, needy, or insecure.

Originally posted by stonebutterfly
reply to post by DoYouEvenLift

 

I believe there's gender differences from birth. I don't buy into the programming thing.
Even our hormone levels are naturally different, it makes our brain and body wiring opposite.

edit on 27-12-2012 by stonebutterfly because: (no reason given)

What is there to buy into?

Babies act differently all over the world. Boys and Girls have no culturally universal gender traits outside of sexual experimentations at the onset of prepubescence. Either you believe the research done by thousands and thousands of child development specialist in various fields of study worldwide, or you just go with your small sampling of 2 children. Sounds good either way.

reply to post by DoYouEvenLift

That was funny, see you can't be homophobic if you just admitted you love Tom Selleck and yet are straight as an arrow, I was just joking around but unwilling to admit to my mancrush on Selleck!

Ok enough with that! [redfaced emoticon here]. lol

Originally posted by sconner755
reply to post by DoYouEvenLift

 

Value is a perception, a belief, an abstraction that can't be proven or disproven, especially across the entire population of men and women.

How do you measure value? Does a mass murderer have the same value as Buddha?

Why is it so important for you focus on perceptions of equal value, or my beliefs about whether men and women have equal value?

Ps to all the men: the fastest way to destroy attraction in a relationship is to try to appease the woman. When women kick you in the balls, which they all do at some point, it's a test. If you try to appease them you fail the test.

If you don't believe me test it for yourself.

If you've been having trouble with women stop trying to appease them. You will triggers attraction in almost all women when you do this. And NEVER be jealous, needy, or insecure. That's game over. Done. There are plenty of men out there who women can choose to be with who don't act jealous, needy, or insecure.

Thank you for your definition of what you believe the word "value" to mean. However you haven't actually answered the question of where you believe that a person would have the same value regardless of their gender. No, you sidestepped the question entirely and then proceeded to talk about the idea that all women will kick a man in the testicles just to test them.

This is something you believe all women do.

Let's just sit here for a moment and really think about this last line. I mean it. Just relax. Take a deep breath. Close you eyes. If you are still reading this you don't have your eyes closed, peeker! Just teasing, anyway. Now think to yourself "All women kick men in the testicles to test them." Say it a few times out load. Does it sound right? Do you think you might be mistaken about that part? I look forward to your response.

Here's the thing re: manhood as an endangered species, on it's last legs, etc.

The truth is that the Civilized man is an evolving man, spiritually and psychologically, someone who's charting a path into the unknown but with as much fearless awareness as he can muster even in the face of all obstacles ie: with courage.

As an evolving man, he's also one who's differentiating and reintegrating all the resources that are available to him, discarding what's unworkable while building new habits and character. This evolutionary process includes the reintegration with his intuitive, right-brained feminine side.

Now, that said, let me ask you this, within the context of modern society.

Which is easier, for a man to integrate his feminine aspects/elements, or for a woman to integrate her masculine elements? No doubt the opportunity exists in both cases, but things are weighted very heavily on the female side towards the feminine, whereas "new men" are encouraged to be more fully integrated or "in touch" with their other facets therefore presenting a greater opportunity to evolve as a human being.

"When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner as the outer, and the upper as the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male shall not be male, and the female shall not be female: . . . then you will enter [the kingdom]."

~ Gnostic Gospel of Thomas

Therefore in regards to leadership into new domains and freedom and possibility, there is no better time in human history to be a man than in this present day, and it also just so happens to be the time when we are most needed, and that's why this is an important thread and topic.

And when we reintegrate both halves we become more fully human and as Jesus has pointed out, more divine.

This is the challenge and the opportunity presented to modern man - grow or die.

It's similar with women, but since they're already more evolved as emotional beings, there isn't quite the same urgency!

Anyway, men are still capable of extraordinary things, even at the subtle levels of spiritual growth and development and thus, the evolution of the human being, and women want to see us reach our full stature as fully and freely self expressed self realized people because it makes for a better society within which to raise children which is good for everyone.