Firefighters Killed While Battling NY Blaze

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posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 11:38 PM
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I dont think anyone can come up with any sort of conspiracy for this. Thats not what this thread is about I understand. This is tragic, stupid and also just wrong on so many levels.

The families affected by this are taking it rough I bet, near christmas and having someone they know die. Thats awful even to think about.




posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 02:02 AM
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Originally posted by MystikMushroom

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by MystikMushroom
 


Hey buddy Im on your side, but I need to point out something. You said that handguns are only used for one thing, "to kill people". WRONG. I carry a handgun for protection, but its not only for protection from humans. I use it when I hike and walk in the wild a lot. It can also be used for hunting. You should google just how many people hunt bear and other animals with handguns. You dont need to use a rifle for hunting, you can use handguns as well.


No I just don't enjoy seeing innocent children slain to death, regardless of which nation they are born in and p.s. a British child was a victim too so it does affect us. Its pretty sad that you have to have more mature nations lecture you on this subject to try and make you see sense. I suppose it might be a bit too much to expect of a nation still very much in its infancy. You have only been around 600 years, Britain has been here for thoasands of years and we have had more time to learn from our mistakes. Your nation might not be ready to accept disarmanent yet, but it is inevitable eventually as you will eventually learn from your painful mistakes.


1. This is about firefighters, not children regardless of where they are from

2. I suppose Americans could lecture you about having cameras on every corner, but that is off the subject

3. You are correct that eventually we will more than likley all live in a world without personal weapons

4. When the London tube bombings happened, I didn't lecture UK people in how to run their security. I let you folks deal with the situation as you saw fit.

5. I enjoy hunting, and believe that owning firearms for that purpose is reasonable. I am sure some of my Inuit friends would laugh at trying to shoot a beluga whale with a shotgun. I can use a shotgun for my bird hunting, but to take down a large animal that can feed my family for several months, I need a higher-powered rifle. I will make the concession that handguns only serve one purpose -- to kill people

6. Guns are not the issue, it's the people who are accessing them. Americans are doing a very poor job at taking care of their mentally ill. I have said this over and over again. Hopefully, with Obamacare more people that need help will get it. Ultimatley, I would love to have a fully nationalized healthcare system. I believe this is one of the reasons the UK and Canada have lower incidents of violent crime. Your people can get the help they need

-MM



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 05:21 AM
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So now you're going to get armed firefighters perhaps.

Add that to teachers and every other profession that works for any kind of public service that will no doubt get involved in an "incident" and sooner or later the only people without guns will be the unborn children.

I'd prefer a different kind of FREEDOM. One not based on FEAR.

Be safe.



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 05:30 AM
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Originally posted by Edgar806
I dont think anyone can come up with any sort of conspiracy for this. Thats not what this thread is about I understand. This is tragic, stupid and also just wrong on so many levels.

The families affected by this are taking it rough I bet, near christmas and having someone they know die. Thats awful even to think about.


I went through the whole thread twice, yesterday and this morning. It still baffles and crushes
me to read through it, and where focus is being drawn away. Two families torn apart for
Christmas and we're turning this into Tool Time again. My words of condolence are inadequate
as anyone else's, because this didn't have to happen... the system let it.
My uncle was a high ranking volunteer in my home town and died from smoke inhalation when
I was 13. Even that mildly confused and trashed me for years. This, I'm not going to try,
except I'm over on the page with extended family.
The facts are that two people that put it all on the line just going to volunteer aren't going
home, ever again. Traditionally Fire and Rescue have been unarmed because in a normal
world they shouldn't have to be. Guess we can forget that scene now, with the system letting
people out and somehow they keep it glued together well enough to buy deadly weapons
worse than what THEY ALREADY used on Grandma. I'd like to talk someday with the PhD
on the parole board about his initial impressions of this guy's visible risk factor, although
who knows... right?

One thing I DO know is there's a lot of attention being paid to the violence happening
INSIDE our border right now by the MSM; and airtime about OUTSIDE and the same horrific
acts of some propagandized legitimacy downplayed which are IMO just as bad if not usually
worse. Murder it seems doesn't care where... but now of all times is when the truly psychotic
and career murderers seem to be drawing a "get out of headlines" card, isn't it? It may or
may not stink of an agenda, but I'm no less stunned and hurting for the families at the same
time.
Last questions about then vs. now: I wonder how well the press worked when the 101st was
holding Bastogne 62 years ago, and how many public servants back home got murdered? I
finally wonder how unpopular our fed government's got to feel if it has to pile this up so thick?



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 05:50 AM
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www.guardian.co.uk...

www.guardian.co.uk...

www.bbc.co.uk...

Yep...gun control in the UK really worked


RIP those brave firefighters...

From a Brit who say's the US should keep their guns..

Peace.



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 07:26 AM
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This story is a classic example of what things would be like even if guns were removed from US citizens.

The old saying that criminals will always find a gun if they need one rings very tr4ue with this story.

The shooter was a convicted murderer and was not supposed to own a gun, yet he still managed to find one and killed two people.

The moral of this story is that taking guns from the american public (who the majority of use their firearms wisely and safely), won't stop people like this from getting them.

What will happen is more killings because there won't be any guns around for people to protect themselves whan a crazy dose go on the rampage with a stolen or blkack market weapon.



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 07:34 AM
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well it has taken me all day to respond to this one... my heart goes out to their families. At this stage, the gun debate doesn't rate, what does, is the fact that two People are not going home from work today.


it happens, emergency People often die in their line of work and the general public are so distracted with their own lives they don't appreciate all of the 'invisible' People who are ready to save someones asss and put their own life on the line so everyone can enjoy their xmas lunch/sleep well at night.



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 07:48 AM
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Yo Michael Merry Christmas! I am curious what they teach you guys over there concerning The War of Independence? Surely they don't make it priority main course teaching. Do you or any other members from Brittan care to fill us in on how this topic is portrait over there?

Then every time I turn on the news I have to hear about the two prince kids in the military or getting married. On here its the queen attending some jubilee for some unknown reason. I don't care about your Royal family, but apparently MSM does. I am sure however that the majority of Americans could give two #s what your Monarchy is doing or where they go to buy hats. I mean look at your avatar.... is he the only person in history they teach you about over there? We fought for our independence, maybe it is just an experiment and maybe we are only led to believe we were free all this time. It sounds like that is how you sure would like it to be anyway.



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 07:54 AM
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Firefighters do die. Its true. But where thier specific job is concerned, there are only a certain number of ways a firefighter ought to go to meet his maker. Most of them involve job specific risks, like collapsing buildings falling on them, being burned alive, being caught in a gas main detonation, and so on, and so forth. Others are just occupational hazards of living, like heart attacks, brain tumors, car accidents.

But to actually be SHOT, while responding to a fire? No person who has risked thier lives with the sole purpose of saving others should die like that. No one. Not paramedics, not firefighters. Period. That crap is not what people sign up for when they take on those roles. Its different for police persons, because they choose to put themselves in that job, where they know they are at risk of being killed by people, not fire, flood, disease, but other people. Firefighters however, do NOT sign up for that specific threat, and they shouldnt have to face that on top of all the other harrowing things they have to deal with.

I am aware that this incident happened in up state New York, not the city itself, but surely New York firemen ought to be off limits? If anyone at all, surely them?



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 08:08 AM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 





Thats it, all fire fighters should now carry guns. Because the only way to make you safe from guns is by increasing the amount of guns in circulation. Or so the NSA(sp?) would have you believe. US citizens what will it take to get you to finally realise that life is more important than a childish need to own a gun.


What ever it will take I'm positive our gov. will see to it. With perfect timing.



reply to post by andypb
 



From a Brit who say's the US should keep their guns.


Well either way it appears were all dead cause our gov. obviously has enough [snipped], early 20's to kill us all anyway. What good are the guns anyway ? If were not going to use 'em. Looks to me like they got us in a lil crossfire.

edit on 25-12-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 09:44 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by opethPA
In before False Flag alerts!




Given the extreme dog-n-pony show surrounding the recent tragedy (complete with interviews of sobbing victims) I would guess this is either another false-flag to maintain the political momentum or it's a copy-cat crime committed by latch-key psychopaths seeking attention and notoriety.

Either way, the mainstream media is the prime mover for continuing terror.

Also, I note with interest the great hue and commotion over these senseless tragedies, but I hear almost nothing about the *mass* murders, torture and other atrocities being committed in the middle east by our "government".



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by Mailman
reply to post by randyvs
 


Don't forget those crazy white boys that hold you down and make black people kill their neighbors on a daily basis. Wouldn't want you to overlook that.
edit on 25-12-2012 by Mailman because: (no reason given)


Matter of fact its more of you crazy black boys that make more violence.. how comes your left wing media doesn't help you out more?
edit on 25-12-2012 by Mailman because: (no reason given)


Is this your first experience with text ? Cause the first thing I learned is not to assume anything about the person you address.

I'm white ! Norwegian and Irish.
edit on 25-12-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 10:05 AM
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reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 


This was horrific and is going to affect our society the same way the Tylenol poisoning did back in the 70's. Everything is going to change after this. I don't know why you don't have more stars since this is a very significant story. I think people are a little battle weary and just don't know where to go with this information.



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 10:07 AM
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MSM lies. There's something fishy about this story.
SAYS GUN MAN IS STILL AT LARGE.
what's the real story?



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by jcarpenter

Originally posted by opethPA
In before False Flag alerts!




Given the extreme dog-n-pony show surrounding the recent tragedy (complete with interviews of sobbing victims) I would guess this is either another false-flag to maintain the political momentum or it's a copy-cat crime committed by latch-key psychopaths seeking attention and notoriety.

Either way, the mainstream media is the prime mover for continuing terror.

Also, I note with interest the great hue and commotion over these senseless tragedies, but I hear almost nothing about the *mass* murders, torture and other atrocities being committed in the middle east by our "government".



You sound a little surprised in America the media concerns itself with Americans.
You should probably add this to your thoughts, since it is quite possibly true...



edit on 25-12-2012 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by randyvs
 



I am sorry I assumed. I still think your labeling is wrong. Yes true, but where's the attention to gang and drug violence. I am sure there are stories out there from every city that never made national news. Should we start having a tv series for ex massacre killers like those reality gang and prison shows?



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by Mailman
reply to post by randyvs
 



I am sorry I assumed. I still think your labeling is wrong. Yes true, but where's the attention to gang and drug violence. I am sure there are stories out there from every city that never made national news. Should we start having a tv series for ex massacre killers like those reality gang and prison shows?



The only place I've ever heard and still have never witnessed, any gang or drug violence ? You guessed it ? Old school MSM. Other wise I wouldn't know there were such things. Not saying they don't happen. Only that I have never witnessed them. And could easily consider it to be exaggeration. If it comes out of the tube or radio or magazine ? It's an effort to make money. By separating you from yours.

edit on 25-12-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 12:31 PM
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Quite a remarkable Sicko!

Beyond this, I find it really interesting to question the fact that creates such an intense hate for the human beings around one. An attack on helpers that are risking their life on a frequent base to save lives and asses of people in dire need, is an outspoken attack against the society - in which the actual victims are nothing but proxies.
Going after children is exactly the same attempt to "punish" the society for heartfelt "abuse", the aggressor feels he has suffered.

One can discuss weapons, one can discuss psychological disorders - but it might be of some benefit to wonder about the cause for this intense urge in some human beings, to cause maximal grief for their "neighbours".

Thus, to me this is much more of a social topic, than one of regulation or even medication.



posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 12:43 PM
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Man who killed 2 firemen left note on killing plan

news.yahoo.com...

"WEBSTER, N.Y. (AP) — The ex-con who lured firefighters to their deaths in a blaze of gunfire left a rambling typewritten note saying he wanted to burn down the neighborhood and "do what I like doing best, killing people," police said Tuesday."





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