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Firefighters Killed While Battling NY Blaze

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posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 08:15 PM
Apparently this guy Killed his Grandma with a HAMMER back in 1980. Served 18 years in prison. I dont think this had anything to do with Guns but a killer who was let out and not executed when he KILLED someone (not with a Gun by the way) the first time.

Killers need the right punishment than maybe they wont make such irrational decisions in the first place. Not trying to derail this thread from pro gun/no gun arguments to having executions reinstated in all States considering our DNA capabilities surely will make sure that an innocent person will not be executed.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 08:28 PM
reply to post by Thunder heart woman

I agree with everything you’ve stated. Unfortunately, most will be easily swayed in the hodgepodge of irrationality, skewed discourse, and propaganda. Times like these are when we need a solid and objective media to present facts and steer discourse towards rational, objective, and a calm environment of debate, yet it is also times like these that show us what a disservice our media is doing to this country. All we can do is stand our ground, speak coherently, and aim to educate rather than attack “the other side”. Above all, we must love our neighbors, for they know not what they do; and in the times ahead they will need our protection from what they allowed to happen. In our pursuit to encourage safety we cannot be selective, we must also protect those that have succumbed to the weak will of the world. If you stay ready, you don’t have to get ready.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 08:29 PM
reply to post by intrepid

As if the NRA had a choice but to make a statement of some sort?
As Mystikmushroom sagely pointed out our Constitution isn't a pick and choose document.
It is also the supreme law of the land (supposedly) here in the US.

The media is leading the public by the nose to stir up anti-gun sentiment.
Turns out the Rochester shooter already has served time for killing his grandmother.
Felons aren't allowed to own firearms.
So how would any new laws being passed have prevented either this or the Sandy hook shooting?
They wouldn't have because criminals don't obey laws anyway.
The first gun control laws in the US were passed to prevent black people from owning weapons.
-Something to think about.

I realize what I said isn't going to be popular but we've lost many lives to attain our freedoms and keep them.
If our rights aren't worth fighting and dying for then nothing is.
Sure beats fighting over which "god" exists based on thousands-year old manuscripts.

These firefighters being killed is a tragedy that could have been prevented if only our justice system kept known murderers off the streets.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 08:32 PM
reply to post by hoochymama

Don'tcha know it's not ethical to put murderers to death?
The results of liberalism gone wrong are always conveniently ignored.
No, they'll blame the guns for this too.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 08:36 PM
LOL @ people calling Rochester slummy and lumping Webster in with that. Webster ranges from lower to upper middle class and has seen a sizable population increase over the past couple decades because it is such a desirable place to live. With the economy the way it is, most people couldn't afford to live on Lake Ontario in eastern Monroe County, especially with NY state's high taxes. A fringe lunatic doesn't represent the typical violence occurring in Rochester itself, and definitely does not represent the community in Webster. If we want to talk typical violence, then have at the city of Rochester itself. But keep in mind the criminal activity there is mostly gang related. No one cares about gang activity because no one cares about black on black crime. So any of that "slumminess" can be tossed out the window when talking about psychopaths who torch neighborhoods and shoot at first responders, mow down schools full of kids, or theaters full of people. Apples and oranges.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 08:44 PM
Interesting that the authorities think this was a trap. Why on earth would you want to lure firefighters to a building to shoot them? Then the killer shot himself, while managing to burn a few extra houses while the shoot out was going on. I don't like how the motive is lacking and the gap is being filled with CT shooting/firearm restrictions debate. At first I thought, insurance scam, f fighters shot to prevent the scam from working. But nope, I was wrong, deranged grandma killer. This story is too bizarre to ignore. I wish people dug deeper as opposed to shifting the story to guns.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 08:45 PM
reply to post by Asktheanimals
Only if its front of a firing squad. Electrocute them or lethal injection. LOL!! Or send Dr. Kevorkian, he did a great job.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 08:55 PM

Originally posted by michael1983l

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
reply to post by michael1983l

The US was founded on the concept that rights are more important than lives.
That is why they were willing to fight in the first place.
Another tragedy where the gun control people can't wait to turn it political.
New York has very strict gun laws, just like Connecticut.
Cause and effect mean anything to you?

What is the point in having rights if you are 6ft under in a wooden box because your neighbour went crazy and shot you one night?

Life HAS to be valued above all. You only get one life.
edit on 24-12-2012 by michael1983l because: (no reason given)

And I agree that life should also be protected by exercising personal responsibility.
I know I've got only one life, and the length makes it somewhat dear... but none the
less I trained early in the proper respect, handling and deployment of small arms.
If my neighbor goes crazy, there will be several sounds: guess which would be his
last after breaking in. Besides, who can defend against a sniper except a trained
squad? You can, by actually calling Big Sis for a change and saying something
before it happens. If the gendarmes don't show for a half hour, well....
Ponder on that question posed before if one of those several sounds are pills clicking
in his bottle. For the rest, this neck of the woods is up for grabs in Illinois. And only
the bad guys are walking around with lumps... just waiting for my number to come
up without a CCP.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 09:08 PM
There have been acts of pure evil this year for sure. Now killing of firefighters who put their lives on the line everyday as it is. Wonder what this sickos motivation was. I read he killed his grandmother with a sledgehammer in 81.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 09:10 PM

Originally posted by FlySolo
Can't someone just simply go across the state line and buy a gun elsewhere?

That's possible. There have also been many cases of corrupt police stealing weapons from evidence, or even "losing" police issue weapons, and selling them. And let's not forget Fast and Furious. Also, there have been instances of soldiers selling military issue weapons. I can only imagine that if guns were banned, the prices on the black market would jump and you would see a lot more instances of thefts like that.

It seems that the only way for a gun ban to be effective would be if it were truly "zero tolerance", meaning that the police and military couldn't get their hands on them either. We may have to shut down gun manufacturers as well, just to be on the safe side.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 09:29 PM

Originally posted by PrestonSpace
There have been acts of pure evil this year for sure. Now killing of firefighters who put their lives on the line everyday as it is. Wonder what this sickos motivation was. I read he killed his grandmother with a sledgehammer in 81.

We'll probably never know for sure why he did what he did. We might get a fair guess at it though. Obviously killing Grandma with a hammer is a clue this guy is not all well in the head, That he has no regard for other's lives, even at some basic human empathy level. If we ever hear more on this guy I'll bet $$s you'll find a long history of odd things like torturing animals and the like. What I do wonder is if all the media attention to the Sandy Hook killings somehow pushed him over the edge ? That somehow that incident gave him "permission" (for lack of a better word) to do something that's been crawling around in the back of his sick mind ?

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 09:35 PM
condolences to the families of the fallen.

so, a convicted felon/murderer gets a weapon in the strictest regions for gun ownership in the country and kills again, post early-release ... yep, that gun control really works

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 09:36 PM
I don't understand how the man could have picked up an intensely hot gun handle, and accurately killed four people.

Why would he kill people trying to save him? Did he want to die by fire? To take everyone else down with him? Why is he living alone? Let's focus on the individual who shot the fire men. Not the guns them selves. Why was this individual living in New York? Does his mental health relate to any "shock" status states of our economic progress from 1920 and onwards?

Did you know, that during the rule of Trajan, the low-income residents lived in tight-knit
infrastructure, for low-cost, and their buildings set fire easily? Maybe he was sick and tired
of living, and understood that America has died. Because god is slowly dying, if he
has not died on this earth already. And his son is coming to heal him once more.

We are so pathetic as a country, as a people, as a world. We don't need peace. We need
need release. We need to release ourselves from whatever we thought was true. Because it isn't. It never will be. Not in this generation, or the next one.

Because even in the next world, some people may have high-tech sight, but others will be in-mates. Using that same technology to produce work in accounting for example, for their Reich sadist masters. Because everybody literally, and voluntarily handed over their freedoms because they were too oblivious and distracted to notice the destruction of their nation and their soul from now and until the
next civil war.

These Nazi war financiers were not arrested. The murders were, but we forgot that the
Bank of America didn't give Charles Manson money to kill anybody. They needed
a New Plan. For a Brave. New. World.

Something... sustainable..

Read the Rockefeller Family's online pdf:

I mean.. the butler of the Pope in the Vatican City - which by the way - is an absolute monarchy,
came out with whistle blower details regarding the hedonistic acts and sadist details
of economic transactions within the vatican! There were Nazi's in Auschwitz who
would pray to the devil every day, and still do.

Why doesn't the MSM ask Naomi Klein, or Paul Krugman, or
Ayn Rand's family? Or undergraduate students with the highest GPA from the
top performing country in North America etc?

This is a CLEAR example of attributing their 2008 collapse to re-building society
Invisibly, so that their murders go un-noticed. And everybody "loves" each other, only
when they're not killing each other.

Caroline Wagner, The New Invisible College: Science for Development, 2008.
(How many people take online courses as opposed to physical universities now as opposed to 1970? in the U.S. and Canada, and the U.K,.?)

Now let's look at these significant events to implement a "police" or "controlled" or "national sacraficial" state..

1969 Free Concert, Hells Angels (Jewish Beaters), Small Space, Unallocated Space Utilization,
"Free" or "Cheap" security who has no responsibilities, and is literally sadist because
whether or not they provide a service, they are still being paid. There is no incentive
offered to these people to implement peace or to welcome peace in any way.

Then what about Allen Ginsberg? Mick Jagger was and is connected to these
people, this group in some way. So is the Royal Family. Take a look at Kate's face..

The eyes and the eye-brows are the windows to the soul. I can see that this woman
loves sex. She loves hedonism. She enjoys sadism. She enjoys excess to the
point of post-resistance. To the point to where Nazi soldiers are literally vomiting on themselves
for consuming too much of the Jew's personal belongings, or they grow too tired
from raping too many people. If they are not sexually satisfied, they are intellectually

Except.. they are never truly satisfied. Most likely because they hold all of the answers
to life's greatest questions in the form of organic substances, and it gives them
such a sexual high to restrain the entire civilization like a big German Shepard.
edit on 24-12-2012 by streetfightingman because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 09:39 PM
"What do you all think?"

In reference to Sandy Hook, I think this is the way that the power structure is letting first responders know their fate if they break away and start questioning the official version of events.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 10:22 PM
Great. Another self important BRIT hijacked another thread babbling about how everyone should be like his country and submit to the powers that be.

My heart goes out to these firemen and their families.
edit on 24-12-2012 by AnimositisominA because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-12-2012 by AnimositisominA because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 10:28 PM

Originally posted by AnimositisominA
Great. Another self important limey hijacked another thread babbling about how everyone should be like his country and submit to the powers that be.

My heart goes out to these firemen and their families.
edit on 24-12-2012 by AnimositisominA because: (no reason given)


posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 10:33 PM
reply to post by streetfightingman

Sorry bout that. Slip of the keys. Edited it to be more P.C. and understandable.

Back on topic,
I saw on the news earlier that this shooter was pretty old, and was convicted a while back for murdering his grandmother.
Another nutbar. So sad for these firefighters.

Oh yeah, I wasn't referring to you streetfightinghuman.
But I don't understand your point of view on the Hells Angels at Altamont '69. Where did you get "jewish beaters" or something of the like. And that guy that was stabbed to death by the Angels tried to shoot people. I don't see where you are coming from. I dunno, maybe you shouldn't respond because it is way off topic. Just curious.

edit on 24-12-2012 by AnimositisominA because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 10:43 PM

I spent my career as a PAID paramedic. I couldn't imagine how difficult my job would have been without the volunteers at my side. Some went bravely to places I hesitated on.

I am not sure if anyone knows how responsible these people feel for their community.

They stop fixing their roofs and playing with their kids, they leave their groceries in the cart in the store, in small communities they even have permission to leave work to respond. Anywhere. Anytime. For any one.

If anyone has the temerity to listen to the radio recording here. Spend all 8 minutes with him. He feels alone. He is afraid. He is shot. At one point he shows concern for the fire spreading. Stay with him.

I don't understand people.

That monster would have my boot print in whatever was left of his head. I would have stomped any of it left intact.

My grief is profound. A moment of silence please. Two have fallen.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 10:53 PM
reply to post by michael1983l

You can own a gun in New York State
yet, felons cannot and did anyway, so what's with this extreme exaggeration you keep promoting ?

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 11:31 PM

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by michael1983l

You can own a gun in New York State
yet, felons cannot and did anyway, so what's with this extreme exaggeration you keep promoting ?

Going by what he has written in this thread, he thinks that he himself is a "more mature nation" that needs to lecture us infantile citizens of a younger nation.

Like I said, just another self important limey(if he doesn't like that word, he should lay off of the use of 'yank') that thinks the entire world should be like his country.

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