Firefighters Killed While Battling NY Blaze

Originally posted by Zcustosmorum
reply to post by Darkrunner

 

Ofc I know a total ban would be impossible, the only ban that would work would have to a ban across all walks of life (including cops and guards etc.) but that would take years and years to do also. More guns is not the answer.

Imo, without a doubt, the second amendment is out-dated and it's only going to cause more problems.

i wonder what other freedoms and liberties you'd consider out-dated ? Do you apply the same rationale to other things that when misused, when criminally misused, cause the death or injury of innocent people ? Is it time to ban Scotch in Scotland ?

Here in the US people murdered with firearms in any given year number about the same as are killed in DUI car "accidents" in any given year. No doubt that in both situations, it's the "bad guys" that amount to the majority of those killed. But the innocent people killed also number about the same. Why is it that guns are bad when alcohol isn't ? Why, in the latter case, do we talk about punishing the person responsible for the crime but the very idea that "demon rum" is to blame never gets mentioned ? Why the dichotomy ?

reply to post by jaynkeel


Being a former native of Upstate, the area this happened in was not slums or gang ridden, I do not know of many areas that are residential waterfronts that are slums, this specific area has a mixture of old summer camp homes and newer expensive homes.

Guns aren't the problem, as a memebr of the NRA, former military spec ops and law enforcement my common sense tells me there is no reason to have high capacity magazines, but that alone will not stop the insane or evil from doing their deeds of destruction.

I had a conceal carry permit in NY, then guns laws are quite stringent in NY. We don't need more laws how about enforcing the thousands on the books.

It sounds like he didn't have or didn't need a hi capacity mag.

reply to post by TrueBrit


Maybe you're thinking of some other definition of evidence? I was referring to the simple dictionary definition. That said, I'm not here to play tit-for-tat. I posted that article as food for thought. I don't know the details of this professor's study, but if he could, in fact, show a consistent correlation spanning back 2500 years, people here might want to open their eyes to what his research could indicate.

Arson is illegal in New York, right.

Sounds like it is time to ban matches, cigarette lighters and anything else that heats to above 450 degrees Fahrenheit. Say goodbye to cooked food (even a microwave oven could be used to start a fire).

Ooops, that's right, they are only worried about banning guns.

Never mind that more people die as a result of arson than mass shootings every year in the US.

FEMA

Originally posted by butcherguy
Sounds like it is time to ban matches, cigarette lighters and anything else that heats to above 450 degrees Fahrenheit. Say goodbye to cooked food (even a microwave oven could be used to start a fire).

Ooops, that's right, they are only worried about banning guns.

Well, you know how it is. Those poor downtrodden future tyrants don't have to worry much about their victims throwing matches or microwave ovens at them when they come to drag them off.

I couldn't help but notice that the victims in these cases are always sympathetic figures. Christmas shoppers at the mall, innocent children at school a week before Christmas, firefighters just doing their job. Can it be any more obvious? Those POOR people! We must do something! Right?

I'm just a simpleminded nobody. I don't know how they're doing it but it seems obvious to me that they have found a way.

The bad example of cigarette lighters, matches and microwave ovens compared to a assault weapon like the Bushmaster with a thirty round magazine. The Bushmaster only has one purpose the others have many. You can't hunt with that weapon.

Originally posted by JBA2848
The bad example of cigarette lighters, matches and microwave ovens compared to a assault weapon like the Bushmaster with a thirty round magazine. The Bushmaster only has one purpose the others have many. You can't hunt with that weapon.

It was not a bad example. Most people who buy matches and lighters are not going to commit arson. Most people who buy guns are not going to murder people with them. It doesn't matter if a gun is capable of killing people. Most people will not use them for that unless they have to. There are accidents (which the gun grabbers harp endlessly on) and so on but that is not the same as murder. You can compare accidents with firearms with accidents with cars because neither of these things are intentional and the owners of firearms overwhelmingly buy them for reasons other than having an accident with them.

The people who want to confiscate guns from millions upon millions of harmless people must be afraid those people for some other reason because the odds are overwhelmingly against the average person being a victim in a mass shooting. So what is the real reason for the desire to confiscate?

Originally posted by BrianFlanders

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Well now that would be really fair. Take away some 300 million people's rights to bear arms because a few people go whacko and can access a firearm? Makes alot of sense...NOT.

Well, remember. The so-called "greater good" only applies when they say it does. When one cop dies by gunfire, the Second Amendment is just getting too dangerous to keep. When they want to crush the rights of a few individuals who would choose not to buy insurance, the greater good is a perfect excuse.

Sure. In a collectivist (communist) world who needs guns to protect themselves, just ask the Chinese--- or perhaps even knives--- (Of course you might disappear in the middle of the night never to be seen again) but Big Brother is there to protect you 24/7 cradle to grave, all you need is that Digital Angel, er Verichip microchip, that can keep tabs on everyone at all times, stop resisting your servatude, the War on Privacy is in full swing, get with the Agenda citizen! You don't want to be declared an 'enemy of The State' do you and end up on the 'red list?

Has any pictures of the house that burnt down been posted on the internet yet? Really want to see the severity of the damage and how a note that was left behind survived.

reply to post by Alchemst7


The note was left at his home.
Not where the fires were.

Originally posted by JBA2848
The bad example of cigarette lighters, matches and microwave ovens compared to a assault weapon like the Bushmaster with a thirty round magazine. The Bushmaster only has one purpose the others have many. You can't hunt with that weapon.

I am not going to waste my time and look on youtube for people hunting with ARs. Easy to find them if one takes two seconds to look.

In my part of the world the AR in 5.56, 7.62x39 and several other calibers are used for deer and many hog hunts. Many many ARs that shoot the rim-fire .22 caliber with 26 round mags.
Why do you think so many have been sold...it's not for show and tell. The AR can be modified with different hand-guards, optics, lights and hundreds of after market items. It is the first rifle many women can actually carry without feeling like they are weighted down by a crow bar and the light recoil is manageable even for an 8 year old.

Many people have never used a gun or had a purpose for one yet they are the experts because they can type and have read B.S. by a bunch of gun haters.

reply to post by 727Sky


IN most states for hunting I can't say all. A magazine is limited on how many bullets you can have in it. So a thirty round magazine would be illegal. And there are other problems with the weapons in most states that make it illegal for hunting because of its design. Changing the mag would make no difference. So what hunting are they doing with it? Here you are only allowed to have three bullets legally when going after a deer.

Originally posted by JBA2848
reply to post by 727Sky

 

IN most states for hunting I can't say all. A magazine is limited on how many bullets you can have in it. So a thirty round magazine would be illegal. And there are other problems with the weapons in most states that make it illegal for hunting because of its design. Changing the mag would make no difference. So what hunting are they doing with it? Here you are only allowed to have three bullets legally when going after a deer.

edit on 26-12-2012 by JBA2848 because: (no reason given)

In many of the Southern states there is a real problem with Feral Hogs. There is not a hunting limit because they are the worst type of pest; they can be hunted anytime day or night. Texas does not have ammo restrictions for the AR when hunting pigs. Some of the hunts on youtube are done from helicopters and the 5.56 AR with 30 round mags. There is actually a place South of Dallas TX. where you pay and they take you out at night with Gen 3 night scopes and ARs for hog hunting. Probably have a youtube video posted also.

There are several gun forums where pictures of hogs, deer, and all sorts of things taken on hunts with ARs. All easy to find. There are states who say a .22 caliber which the 5.56/223 is lumped into rifle is not enough for their deer; mostly northern states because they have very large deer when compared to the Southern states. But as I said before the AR comes in many different calibers..6.5,6.8, 300 winmag, 7.62, etc etc to name a few.

Originally posted by JBA2848
The bad example of cigarette lighters, matches and microwave ovens compared to a assault weapon like the Bushmaster with a thirty round magazine. The Bushmaster only has one purpose the others have many. You can't hunt with that weapon.

Bushmaster is simply a brand name like Ipod. They sell many accessories too. The AR is manufactured by too many companies to even think about counting. And as stated, in almost every calibur available you can think of.

Originally posted by jem78
reply to post by TrueBrit

 

Maybe you're thinking of some other definition of evidence? I was referring to the simple dictionary definition. That said, I'm not here to play tit-for-tat. I posted that article as food for thought. I don't know the details of this professor's study, but if he could, in fact, show a consistent correlation spanning back 2500 years, people here might want to open their eyes to what his research could indicate.

While the theory sounds plausible, after reading the article, I see he only cares to note the turmoil that occurs during the sun cycle activity but makes no mention of all the turmoil on the planet that still occurs during the low cycles.

Not sure if you noticed, but there has scarcely been a decade in history one cannot reference horrendous attrocities being committed all across the globe. And yes with similar frequency, horror, and magnitude.

I still believe however that the theory has some merit and should be further studied.

Originally posted by JBA2848 The Bushmaster only has one purpose the others have many. You can't hunt with that weapon.

If this guy had used a Remington 700 would it have made much, if any, difference ? What if he had used slugs in the shotgun he did have ? Had Lanza used a pump action Mossberg 500 in Newtown, would people be any less concerned ? Let's pretend the body count would have been 50% less in that case; would people be saying "that's OK, it was only a shotgun" or would we be hearing talk of banning 'assault' shotguns ? When does your scoped hunting rifle** become a 'sniper weapon' ?

At some point the weapon used is sufficiently deadly that it becomes pointless to discuss the weapon. Ban one type if you will but the bad guy will just use another to the same effect. Most mass killings are done with a handgun.

**IIRC C. Whitman used just such a gun in his massacre at UT Austin in 1966, killing 11 from the tower. Also killed 2 with a shotgun and bashed another to death with something. This was all after he stabbed his mother and wife to death in separate murders at their homes. Humans are dangerous not because they're strong but because they're adaptable. Unfortunately that includes some nutcases.

reply to post by JBA2848

The Bushmaster only has one purpose the others have many. You can't hunt with that weapon.

You have been shown examples that prove your statement wrong.

In this day and age, what purpose does a cigarette lighter serve you..... other than starting fires?
If we can save the life of one innocent child by banning alcohol, why is it still legal to buy and sell? Alcohol is not necessary for life and causes far too many deaths of innocent people..... all because a bunch of binge drinkers just want to have fun.
If statistics prove that unnecessary driving kills people, why don't we chip every car and prevent people from driving unless they have a LEGITIMATE reason to do so (legitimate, by govt set standards, of course)??? It could be done.

Originally posted by jaynkeel
I live in WNY and can honestly say the city of Rochester is nothing but gangs and slum. So it doesn't surprise me in the least something like that happened there. But disgusting is a word that comes to mind, and if I am not wrong I believe they have some pretty strict gun laws on the books there as well, just cannot remember the specifics off the top of my head... Thoughts and prayers go out to the families of the firefighters.

I'm not sure where you live in WNY, but Rochester is far from being all "gangs and slums" - maybe certain points in the middle of the city but the majority of the area (and especially the surrounding areas, like Webster) are beautiful, peaceful, and full of nice people. I've lived here most of my adult life (about 20 minutes from the city, not in Webster), and this definitely surprises me. Gun laws directly in the city may be strict (I don't know for sure), but the majority of the area is fairly rural, and a LOT of people own guns. The shooter was a convicted felon, so it wasn't even a case of gun laws not being in place (he obviously broke them to obtain the guns he had, still no word as to where he got them).

An additional nugget being reported at least in local news media, is that an officer (I believe off-duty) with a gun engaged the gunman. Didn't kill him (he shot himself), but sounds like it was a big factor in preventing further violence.

Terrible event, and disgusting, my heart goes out to the families. It's unfortunate, but Evil does not take holidays off...

edit to add that I see jaykneel posted a response and a few others responded as well. I think there are definitely "rougher" areas of the city, but overall nothing compared to most cities (in my opinion, I should look up crime rates). I was born and lived in detroit (and surrounding area) until I was 11, and it was FAR worse than it was here, even an hour away from Detroit we had tons of gang violence.
Also, Jaykneel, did you by chance attend a private school in the rochester area while you were here (graduating in '01)? PM me if so, wondering if you are an old friend

reply to post by AnimositisominA


Well, I do go off topic, which is obviously a bad thing to do because it's like saying
this works like this but then this works like this and isn't related at all.

But it is, because:

These false flags are just like the false flag shooting that began when Meredith Hunter was shot.

These shootings are happening in a "large gathering of American people." just like
Mick had said after the "Greatest Party of 1969." Turned out to be the greatest travesty
and bloodbath on not only the constitution but the American-European culture.

Is it not time we came up with a different manner of describing an incident where people are actually killed, than "False flag"? Wether this attack was a put up job, or just the work of one of the plentiful sociopaths, psychopaths, fantasists and other nutbars, calling it a false flag, implies that the entire thing is a fraud.

It isnt. There were people in the morgue afterward, who previously had been walking around, and in this case saving lives just hours previously, and thought they were about to do so again, and were instead cut down by lead, rather than the more familiar flame. It does no justice to the circumstances to describe any part of them as false.

These people died doing a heros work. I say we ought to let our manner of speaking of them, and the circumstances of thier deaths, reflect that.