Firefighters Killed While Battling NY Blaze

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posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:03 PM
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reply to post by Thunder heart woman
 


CaRE TO PROVIDE SOME EVIDENCE TO BACK UP YOUR FEELING.. OH THATS RIGHT YOU DON'T HAVE ANY.




posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:04 PM
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Wow. Americans really do know no bounds to lowliness. Children, now fire fighters...


For shame.




posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by Banananananana
 


This is exactly what tptb wants, they want average citizens to turn on responsible gun owners and label them as crazy nuts. This is what they are counting on! And they will use social media to spread that message. I have seen memes out there where people are comparing average responsible gun owners to the likes of people like Jared Loughner, Mark Chapman, James Holmes, and any other criminal out there who used guns to kill people.

They hope the pressure will get folks to hand over the guns so they won't be labeled a nut too. It's only going to get worse as we head into 2013.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by Thunder heart woman
 


CaRE TO PROVIDE SOME EVIDENCE TO BACK UP YOUR FEELING.. OH THATS RIGHT YOU DON'T HAVE ANY.


Guns are banned in NY.... HOW did this shooting happen?? Ohhh.... you mean someone obtained one illegally? Guess that BANNING guns thing didn't work out did it?



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by Thunder heart woman

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by Thunder heart woman
 


CaRE TO PROVIDE SOME EVIDENCE TO BACK UP YOUR FEELING.. OH THATS RIGHT YOU DON'T HAVE ANY.


Guns are banned in NY.... HOW did this shooting happen?? Ohhh.... you mean someone obtained one illegally? Guess that BANNING guns thing didn't work out did it?


Can't someone just simply go across the state line and buy a gun elsewhere?



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:15 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by Thunder heart woman

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by Thunder heart woman
 


CaRE TO PROVIDE SOME EVIDENCE TO BACK UP YOUR FEELING.. OH THATS RIGHT YOU DON'T HAVE ANY.


Guns are banned in NY.... HOW did this shooting happen?? Ohhh.... you mean someone obtained one illegally? Guess that BANNING guns thing didn't work out did it?


Well lets for one minute pretend that the lie you just told there is true, if it was impossible to own a gun legally in NY state then how does it being an illigally obtained weapon make that a conspiracy?

Now lets address the lie you just told. You can own a gun in New York State, you will need to obtain a license first. I'm British and even I knew that.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:30 PM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 


I'd like to live in a "Star Trek" like world where everyone's basic needs are met. A world where crime, pollution, greed and selfishness are abolished.

Personally, I find handguns more dangerous than a semi-automatic AR-15. A friend of mine recently purchased a Bushmaster prior to the Sandy Hook tragedy specifically for hunting caribou. He told me that his father's .338 (or .308) simply was to powerful and heavy. The AR-15 was much lighter and easier for him to operate. I hope he bags his limit and makes wonderful sausages to share!

Guns make it less "personal" to kill someone. Some might argue that because it's less personal, it's easier. I suppose I can understand that viewpoint. Having said that, however, I think it would take a much more mentally ill personal to commit the kinds of acts we've seen on the same scale with a sword or large knife.

I'm worried that if guns are outlawed, the acts of violence we see will be more brutal and barabric in nature. People with mental issues are always going to snap unless watched over and treated. The method of how they carry out their rampage depends upon the kind of instrument they are able to obtain.

With regards to Sandy Hook, the man in question didn't purchase the weapons -- he stole them. People with mental health issues can always steal or buy guns from criminals. I'm sure the same could be said for your country. Outlawing guns for responsible people won't make it any harder for these people to obtain firearms.

I've checked my state laws reguarding the purchase of a new firearm. It's quite stringent. The laws surrounding the ownership also surprised me. People that try to commit suicide are currently prevented from legally purchasing a firearm for at least 5 years, and anyone that has been institutionalized cannot obtain them either. If you are found to be intoxicated with any legal or illegal substance in possesion of a firearm, that is also a criminal offense.

The problem is -- we don't have places to commit these people. My city has ONE in-patient facility that doesn't keep their patients for very long. They simply do not have enough beds. The waiting list is also weeks and weeks long. I don't want to go back to draconian mental wards with sub-human treatment and experimentation, but I do think we need to have a secure place where the mentally ill can live their lives free from the opportunity of hurting others.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by Zcustosmorum
Blaze is really out of control, fighters have started tacking it.

Journalist had a corker quote though, "what's the NRAs next response, firefighters with tanks and guns?", be interesting to see what they say this time.


My question is, what is the area like where teh fire was? Was it a ghetto, working class, upperclass, etc? If the fire was in a dangerous area then the fire fighters don't need guns or tanks, they need police escorts.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by Thunder heart woman

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by Thunder heart woman
 


CaRE TO PROVIDE SOME EVIDENCE TO BACK UP YOUR FEELING.. OH THATS RIGHT YOU DON'T HAVE ANY.


Guns are banned in NY.... HOW did this shooting happen?? Ohhh.... you mean someone obtained one illegally? Guess that BANNING guns thing didn't work out did it?


Guns are not banned from NY, I have no clue what you're talking about.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:56 PM
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reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 


It actually surprises me that US firefighters don't have access to weapons. I would expect at least a shotgun in the truck.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by Swills
 


Good point, where were the police?



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by CristobalColonic
Wow. Americans really do know no bounds to lowliness. Children, now fire fighters...


For shame.





Instead of mourning the dead you decide push political propaganda. When you paint with such large brush strokes it shows apathy of the mind. America just like any other country and has good and bad people. Guess what column you fit in.



That is right I am out right calling you a bad person for using death to further your hate. Maybe you are a troll just looking to cause trouble or your heart is so filled with hate you can not help yourself anymore either way it is pathetic.



Also I see you are a new member is this what you want to bring to ATS. If so they should post ban you.


edit on 24-12-2012 by SubTruth because: (no reason given)
edit on 24-12-2012 by SubTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 07:07 PM
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Originally posted by michael1983l

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
reply to post by michael1983l
 

The US was founded on the concept that rights are more important than lives.
That is why they were willing to fight in the first place.
Another tragedy where the gun control people can't wait to turn it political.
New York has very strict gun laws, just like Connecticut.
Cause and effect mean anything to you?


What is the point in having rights if you are 6ft under in a wooden box because your neighbour went crazy and shot you one night?

Life HAS to be valued above all. You only get one life.
edit on 24-12-2012 by michael1983l because: (no reason given)


Life has to be valued above all ? How far are you willing to carry that idea ? Would you prohibit the use of potentially deadly force to stop someone from hacking up your wife or kids with a knife ? I'm going to guess not but let me know if I'm wrong.

Firearms are an invented thing. They can be used for "good" or for "evil". It's the misuse of the thing that people should concentrate on. Alas people too easily confuse the act with the thing and then somehow it's the gun to blame. You can argue w/o guns people wouldn't be able to misuse them and certainly that's true. But I have to wonder if the people who make that argument are as quick to use that same rationale when it comes to something they (properly) use and like. If I had another invented thing, that killed as many innocent people when misused, as do firearms, would they call for it's banning when they themselves don't misuse the thing ? I suspect not. People are quick to sacrifice a goat to appease the volcano god, even when they suspect it's a useless act ... so long as it's not their goat being tossed into the lava.

Me, I'll continue to enjoy my beer on a hot day or a martini with supper. I'll not give them up for the "common good" despite the fact that misuse of alcohol kills more innocent people in DUI "accidents" alone than do firearms in any given year.

And I'll mention that alcohol serves no great purpose in life. It exists solely for entertainment. A gun can be used to save a life. I don't think a beer has that same saving grace.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 07:07 PM
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Very sad indeed. But that is one of the risks you live with when you live in America. I don't like it, you don't like it.....but reality has to be acknowledged.

But, gun violence in the USA doesn’t bother me. The VAST majority of gun violence victims are scumbags to begin with (yup, I said it because it needed to be pointed out). One the average, the USA murder rate is around 91,500 people per year. On the average the amount of those done by someone with a gun is 30,000. America has a population over 311,500,000 people. That’s not too shabby if you ask me. I’m willing to live with those statistics, do the math and you will see that .0000XXX gun owners are involved in gun violence.

I know in the modern day 24 hour news cycles caters to mindless, ignorant morons who can’t think past the end of their noses and tend to latch on the VERY few people harmed by someone with a gun in this country (statistic wise) and think it justifies them not have to use reason, logic and common sense. Far easier for people to have a knee jerk reaction rather than think it through. Me, I detest the fact that 30,000 are killed with guns in my country every year, but I would detest it even more if they ever banned guns because of .0009% of the population.

I already have to go to the counter to purchase my cold medicine (with photo ID and everything) thanks to meth heads cooking habits in my state. I’m sick of living in a world where the criminals ruin things for the rest of us.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 07:10 PM
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Originally posted by Swills

Originally posted by Zcustosmorum
Blaze is really out of control, fighters have started tacking it.

Journalist had a corker quote though, "what's the NRAs next response, firefighters with tanks and guns?", be interesting to see what they say this time.


My question is, what is the area like where teh fire was? Was it a ghetto, working class, upperclass, etc? If the fire was in a dangerous area then the fire fighters don't need guns or tanks, they need police escorts.






"According to public records, William Spengler has owned the home at 191 Lake Road for more than three decades. He was convicted of manslaughter in 1981 after he discovered his grandmother, Rose, 92, dead inside the home next door in July 1980. Spengler was a convicted felon. He's not allowed to possess weapons. Did he legally possess those weapons? No," said Webster Police Chief Gerald Pickering.".


This guy was convicted of manslaughter before. The neighbor hood is actaully very nice. I would guess that house is around 250,000 - 300,000 depending on the square footage so its not really a run down neighbor hood. There is a lot of boating and jet-skiing that goes on there.

This is the house, its on Lake Ontario.

maps.google.com...:0xf5c9dfdfb073b6f4,191+Lake+Rd,+Webster,+NY+14580&gl=us&ei=y_zYUMeqG- rG0QHguoEo&ved=0CDUQ8gEwAA
edit on 24-12-2012 by Laxpla because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by Thunder heart woman
 


The loss of life here is so sad --it seems like it was ripped from the pages of a book I just read titled While Galileo Preys by Joshua Corin. A killer stages emergency events and then shoots first responders as they show up to the scene. Some of the recent shootings in the news parallel the book so much its creepy.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 07:25 PM
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Originally posted by gameisupman
Very sad indeed. But that is one of the risks you live with when you live in America. I don't like it, you don't like it.....but reality has to be acknowledged.

But, gun violence in the USA doesn’t bother me. The VAST majority of gun violence victims are scumbags to begin with (yup, I said it because it needed to be pointed out). One the average, the USA murder rate is around 91,500 people per year. On the average the amount of those done by someone with a gun is 30,000. America has a population over 311,500,000 people. That’s not too shabby if you ask me. I’m willing to live with those statistics, do the math and you will see that .0000XXX gun owners are involved in gun violence.


I agree with you re: who gets killed by who. But you should clarify what you meant with the numbers above. They vastly overstate the number of murders and those committed with a gun. Perhaps you added a decimal point ?

From the FBI stats for 2010 : 8,775 people murdered with a gun out of a total of 12,996 people.
www.fbi.gov...



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by CristobalColonic
Wow. Americans really do know no bounds to lowliness. Children, now fire fighters...


For shame.



Any preventable lost of life from some crazies action I agree is a shame; unfortunately it happens all over the world by crazies and the stupid alike.

I heard on the radio the guy was an paroled felon who had killed his 92 year old grand mother with a hammer.

17 years in the pen for killing granny. The system released him...So much for rehabilitation.
A felon can not own a firearm or vote in America, by law.
By law you are not supposed to kill someone. Happens everyday by many different means.
The first house caught fire but do to the shootings if I heard correctly 7 more burned.
He was a sick lawless individual. There are a few people who choose to be lawless in all parts of the world.
If I could blink all the bad guys away I would..but the world is not made that way and there is no one judge that could be trusted to start blinking.

Not a Merry Christmas for the firemen and their families; totally sick on many different levels starting with a hammer and a 92 year old woman many years ago.

Sorry I have not read all the threads but shall do so now.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 08:15 PM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 





The difference is here in the UK we do not live in fear of being shot, and in my 29 years of life in the UK I have never seen an illigally carried gun.


We had to have a war to separate ourselves from your foolishness. Britain is a small country, we have states larger than the whole country. What works in little European countries doesn't necessarily fit for US.

V





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