Firefighters Killed While Battling NY Blaze

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posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by Skywatcher2011
 


In the US my understanding is that the Police are to "Protect and Serve" with protect being the key word. It is the detectives role to investigate the after effects of a crime. I think the difference here clearly is that of culture, Yanks feel that they need a gun to protect themselves wheras the Brits do not. It is as simple as that really, but that psudo protection comes at a price for you as has been seen time and time again in the News over in the USA.


You tell me what it should be like....I am telling you what it is like...and moving forward how it can be like....




posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by Banananananana
 


The policing issue is a seperate issue, if you feel your Policing is inadequate then you need to lobby your local house represenatives and get that changed. Easier said than done I will admit that. I am not an American Citizen and have only spent a total of 2 weeks in the USA in my entire life so I am by no means an expert on your policing system. But that isn't really the debate, what the debate is about is your right to bear arms, which I strongly believe is not only unnecessary but distructive to your society. There has been too many innocent deaths at the hands of legal fire arms in your country and this should no longer be ignored. I am glad that part of your society is now starting to debate this law and lobby for changes. Your Citizens should not live in fear but it seems by the response of some on here about why you need to keep your guns that you are clearly living in fear. A poster on another thread put it quite accurately, he said that because you have had your guns for so long that it feels like your safety blanket and you do not want to give that up. More a psycological thing than political.

I have my opinion and you have yours but surely you can see that our opinion is one more of concern for the safety of your children than anything else. Do you think we enjoy turning on the news to see another mass murder suicide reported at another USA elementary school? Of course we don't enjoy seeing that.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 12:16 PM
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Obviously the solution is to post an armed guard at every home and structure, and then we'll be protected.

Yes, the recent amount of gun violence in America is rediculous...this is a bunch of copy-cat BS....
the psychos are coming out of the woodworks.....

But I take the middle road; I think Wayne La Pierre is a bit of a wingnut myself, and I also believe that we have the Right to bear arms, and should not have guns banned. Perhaps there should be a more stringent vetting process for ownership, or perhaps mandatory gun safety courses.

In many cases, a gun is more affordable and accessable than mental health resources, and that has got to change.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 12:26 PM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 


Ah I see, so when I present you with a logical answer to why people need tools to defend themselves, their neighbors, and their families, you tuck tail and run. The policing issue is not a separate issue, it is intimately tied into why people cannot trust an entity other than themselves for protection, yet this seems to evade you. And you seem to believe it is guns that are in fact the reason for “destroying” our society; do you have empirical data for this? Perhaps you’re confusing spurious and confounding variables in your analysis, thus leading to a false conclusion based on a faulty premise.

As for the “psychological thing” child please. You don’t know me one bit and therefore cannot infer what my mental, emotional, or physical state is. I have never carried a gun in public, as I do not have a concealed weapons permit. This does not make me more scared or like less of a man, however, it does make me aware that should I need to save my life, my family’s life, or a citizens life, I will be less effective in that pursuit. And my opinion is not simply based in the protection of children, but the protection of every free and sovereign human being. And if you can’t yet understand how the media operates, why they operate the way they do, and what they also leave out, then I must say that your reality will be forever skewed.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 12:29 PM
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The gunman who killed two firefighters in Webster, New York, is dead, police say, adding it appears the shooter set a trap for them. BREAKING NEWS -- DETAILS SOON


www.cnn.com...

This will be on news for awhile. Until the next crazy shooting.
edit on 24-12-2012 by RUFFREADY because: 11 11



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 12:46 PM
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Rather than jump to conclusions and blame AVALIABILTY OF GUNS as the criminal as portrayed by the MEDIA whom chosed to ignore MANY other non-gun VIOLENCE around USA right now, and the unconscionable anti-gun lobby whom will seized every chance, every loss of innocent lives to ply their crocodile sympathy card to support its own selfish agenda, let us await for the investigation results.

NO sane human would shoot at the courageous fire-fighters, unless he had a motive. And it is that motive mankind must address in order to save other innocent lives, not the tool.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 12:47 PM
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This is sad. My prayers are for the families who had loved ones taken from them.

Tragedies happen, people snap and any half way intelligent person with malice intentions can figure out way to kil others regardless if they have access to firearms. As a result of this latest incident the gun control debate will not loose the momentum. It could just be a coincidence that we have had so many tragedies in recent times however my gut is telling me there very well could be more to these incidents.

I do feel there is a strong push from the rest of the world to control American citizens access to guns. Lately it seems that as soon as we move on from the most recent tragedy and the demands for gun control loose steam another incident happens and the demands for gun control get stronger. It could just be a coincidence.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by jaynkeel

Originally posted by dorkfish87
reply to post by jaynkeel
 


There are farmers markers and wonderful suburbs n Rochester it ps not all slums


Just my take as an outsider and from working in the area over the years, I am sure if you are local you know some nice areas and I didn't mean to down your city it was just my perspective as I said being someone from outside the area. And it has been about 3 yrs since I was last there so things might have changed.


You're making Rochester sound like its just a # town. Every city has its bad areas, and a few streets in Rochester have gang problems but you seem to be generalizing all of Monroe County. I go to the bad parts a few times a month cause I make visits out there to meet some friends, it is only a few streets confined around Ave D as the "bad" area. The gangs you talk about keep to themselves and don't really bother people who don't bother them. If you knew what you were talking about I would take it you would know this instead of generalizing the whole county.

Also we are talking about Webster NY here which if you actually went there or did a google search you would know its not that relevant and it is a upscale neighborhood with houses ranging from the low hundreds to the millions with also one of the best schooling programs in the US.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 01:44 PM
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WTF is going on here? I just read this story, and as a former EMT, this breaks my heart.
I know the anti gunners have come here and say see? Ban guns! all the while it aint the good guys doing this, its the ones that wouldnt obey a gun ban
I say arm the citizens, when this crap happens,. shoot the scumbag dead, thats it. Maybe when enough people start shooting these dirtbags, the rest of em will get the hint and stop it.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 01:56 PM
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Pure Evil

Time to arm first responders



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by capod2t
Pure Evil

Time to arm first responders


But where will it end, an armed guard on every street corner? I don't think you Americans realise how pretty much the rest of the world is shocked that your opinion on stopping deaths by guns is to have more guns.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 02:03 PM
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Guns need to be socially acceptable out in public. Yes, it would deter crime to see your average joe walking down the street with a AR-15 or AK-47 slung up on his back.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 02:05 PM
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More effective USE of the guns we have is in order here, not removing that option.I hear NEW YORK is planning a possible confiscation this would be used in support of that.
But what is setting these people off?That is the question ,THE ONLY question, here



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 


Let me ask you this:
If there WERE a mandatory gun ban here in the USA, and firearms were taken from the LEGAL owners, do you think the ILLEGAL firearm holders will really give a rat's backside about turning guns theyre not supposed to have?
Sure, you can say they get caught they get a longer prison sentence or whatever, but that wont stop them from using them against an unarmed populace.
Hell, they thought the death penalty would deter crime, but has it? Not in the least.
I fully believe ALL citizens allowed to posess a firearm should have one and be trained to use it.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 02:09 PM
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He killed his grandmother in like 1980, went to prison in 81, then released in 88?

WTF.

Should've been executed and this would've never happened.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by HomerinNC
reply to post by michael1983l
 


Let me ask you this:
If there WERE a mandatory gun ban here in the USA, and firearms were taken from the LEGAL owners, do you think the ILLEGAL firearm holders will really give a rat's backside about turning guns theyre not supposed to have?
Sure, you can say they get caught they get a longer prison sentence or whatever, but that wont stop them from using them against an unarmed populace.
Hell, they thought the death penalty would deter crime, but has it? Not in the least.
I fully believe ALL citizens allowed to posess a firearm should have one and be trained to use it.


Well it works to a large degree in other eqivelant nations with very strict laws. What makes you think it wouldn't be the same in the USA. You need to get guns out of your culture, thats the problem here, you grow up with guns all around you. The younger generation needs to be taught that guns bring death, because they certainly don't bring democracy which is the most widely used argument for keeping them.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 


Where I live, many people supplement their grocery bill by getting a moose, caribou, whale or other large animal.

I, on occasion like to shoot myself a tasty grouse or ptarmigan for dinner.

Should I just eat road kill like you folks do over in the UK?

Jonathan McGowan, 44-Year-Old UK Man, Lives Off Roadkill For 30 Years



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
Rather than jump to conclusions and blame AVALIABILTY OF GUNS as the criminal as portrayed by the MEDIA whom chosed to ignore MANY other non-gun VIOLENCE around USA right now, and the unconscionable anti-gun lobby whom will seized every chance, every loss of innocent lives to ply their crocodile sympathy card to support its own selfish agenda, let us await for the investigation results.


You know what's truly sad? The family and friends of people that have been killed don't have the luxury of putting off their mourning as the TWO ridiculous groups argue their own agendas. Sickening.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 02:15 PM
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He should've never be released from prison.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by MystikMushroom
reply to post by michael1983l
 


Where I live, many people supplement their grocery bill by getting a moose, caribou, whale or other large animal.

I, on occasion like to shoot myself a tasty grouse or ptarmigan for dinner.

Should I just eat road kill like you folks do over in the UK?

Jonathan McGowan, 44-Year-Old UK Man, Lives Off Roadkill For 30 Years




I don't think that using one example of a crazy eating roadkill in the UK constitutes that we all do. In fact the majority would be repulsed by it. You can own a shotgun in the UK for hunting, if you have a license, but it comes with lots of safety requirements and terms of storage ect ect and a limited supply of ammunition. Keeping shotguns legal is not so much a problem because first of all, it is very difficult to conceal one in a public place, second of all its range isn't great, thirdly the reload rate is pretty slow, so all in all its not a great weapon to go on a rampage with. Thats not saying that it cannot happen but it is deemed as an aceptable risk.





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