A list of already debunked theories, re: Sandy hook

Originally posted by SMOKINGGUN2012
Marlow I would suggest you go here:

www.youtube.com...

And listen to the first 2 or 3 in the timeline from Newtown and Fairfield recordings. .... They both explain why no EMT'S were allowed at the school. It was an active shooter scene for close to an hour. ... so they set up staging at the firehouse.

So if it took 20 minutes for the first cops to get there, and it took another hour for the EMTs to access the school, then it means any wounded victim, child or adult, had to wait one hour and 20 minutes to get medical attention. I can't help but feel that some at least could have been saved had they gotten timely medical attention; say soon after the shooter shot himself.

Originally posted by vkey08
reply to post by DelMarvel

 

I'm in Connecticut..... just sayin.... But I'll be darned if I'm going to give my real name out on here..

I applaud you for attempting, but it wont do any good. Many of us with varying experience have shared FACTS about the different aspects from medical to legal to psychological... heck, even good old common sense. Its futile.

And PUHLEASE dont give out personal info of any kind... as you already know and Im just reinforcing....especially among the obsessed ghoulish stalker types that have cropped up recently.

Originally posted by shasta9600

Originally posted by Druid42

Since she is in the same state as the tragedy, I take her statements to be accurate and also hold more weight than any news report. It's honest, and with all the disinformation going around, it's refreshing to get a first person perspective.

Credibility is given when a member is consistent, has a solid posting record, and doesn't sway from their views.

Respecting someone's opinion and views is one thing. That's fine.

Personally, nothing will erase the fact that my B.S meter went off, for every single one of the people interviewed in this case. I don't believe them at all. So, with that said, anybody who lives in CT, can say whatever they want..and it could be great information. No offense, I appreciate the effort to help. However, it won't override the fact that those who were directly involved in this case are not believable...for me. False Flag.

Even after Springer's warning, you still can't help yourself?

You still insist on implicating everybody interviewed, including the parents of the kids who were killed?

Dear SkepticOverlord, Springer and all MODS
Maybe you should look at tha fact that these people who seem to not have a heart
are trying to take ATS down from its high standard (just my own opinion).

SO you could bring in instant bans for said HEARTLESS fools

you should always be proud of ATS as i am proud to say i am a member of ATS

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
I will repost, again, what I posted in other threads dealing with Sandy Hook, because I want in know how I -- one of the chief architects of what ATS is today -- thinks of our membership in respect to the subject:

The Tragedy at Sandy Hook

HAS BROUGHT OUT THE WORST

of AboveTopSecret.com


I and our staff have witnessed the most incredible shameless self-absorbed credulous nonsense from our members following one of the worst horrors ever to hit a small community -- much less any community.

And this thread is the absolute worst display of your ludicrous narcissistic conjecture -- outing personal details of a private citizen and mocking him on the pages of our precious ATS for the world to see.


You should be ashamed -- but clearly, you're not capable of that.

This site, and its discussion board, was refashioned between 2003 and 2005 to hold conspiracy speculation to a higher standard and ideal than the typical mayhem and lunacy that was then popular throughout Internet communities dealing with similar subject matter. Our motto of "Deny Ignorance" was a call to action to be skeptical critical thinkers with regard to official stories and the ever worsening mass media. We took a great deal of flak, absorbed consistent criticism, and often saw ourselves smeared simply for holding to our ideals that these subjects deserve better of us. ATS management and staff held strong, never wavered, and grew to one of the most popular discussion boards of any topic.

The wildly foolish self-absorbed conjecture regarding the massacre in Newtown, CT has, in my opinion, thrown the quality of conversation on ATS all the way back to how horrible it was before we started our 6 years of hard work. Posting personal information of private citizens, then casting nasty aspersions on them, is the lowest of lows I've ever seen on this site for which I was once proud.


Those who have the urge to speculate on the minute oddities of the "story line" as is currently known should take fair warning that if the ethical quality of the discussion does not immediately improve, the staff will have no choice but to place a temporary hold on all discussions related to the massacre.

The staff and I will not let you ruin our years of hard work and suffer your ridiculousness.

reply to post by Druid42


What a glowing recommendation. What's really great is she was at the school that day with a clipboard or not at the school with a clipboard, counting heads of departments on scene, reporting back to the governor's office.

She claimed she is perfectly situated to assess drills in schools and report the findings.
Yep. Good enough endorsement for me.
She did not say how the drill in the neighboring Putnam went down that day, though.
I would love to hear what her opinion was of it.

Originally posted by peashooter

Originally posted by shasta9600

Originally posted by Druid42

Since she is in the same state as the tragedy, I take her statements to be accurate and also hold more weight than any news report. It's honest, and with all the disinformation going around, it's refreshing to get a first person perspective.

Credibility is given when a member is consistent, has a solid posting record, and doesn't sway from their views.

Respecting someone's opinion and views is one thing. That's fine.

Personally, nothing will erase the fact that my B.S meter went off, for every single one of the people interviewed in this case. I don't believe them at all. So, with that said, anybody who lives in CT, can say whatever they want..and it could be great information. No offense, I appreciate the effort to help. However, it won't override the fact that those who were directly involved in this case are not believable...for me. False Flag.

This was my reaction to the interviews as well. Originally I thought all the parents were too devastated to talk about the death of their child therefore the news had to replace them with temp actors for quick footage. I felt that every single interview was fishy, no matter how hard I tried to think from their perspective. Someone gave them the benefit of the doubt that everyone interviewed are in shock, but I'm still not buying it. There's even a rehearsal video from that Gene Rosen guy, is this the respect we have for a tragedy?

What I'm trying to say is I'm glad a lot more people are contributing to this as I'm changing my opinions on some info, but to have a mod denounce questioning the parents reaction or lack of reaction is unfair. Nothing is absolute.

edit on 5-1-2013 by peashooter because: (no reason given)

Are you #ing serious?

First you blatantly spit in the face of the owners of ATS and continue to disparage the victims, and then you call it "not fair"when the mod call you out for it?

reply to post by Xaphan


What part of the message from SO and Springer did you NOT understand? You're doing it again, please stop with the assumptions about the grieving parents, and NO, you should never post up anyone's personal details on a forum, just because you can find it in a phone book or whatever, does not give you the right to post it here in conjunction with wild speculation.

I

Originally posted by destination now
reply to post by Xaphan

 

What part of the message from SO and Springer did you NOT understand? You're doing it again, please stop with the assumptions about the grieving parents, and NO, you should never post up anyone's personal details on a forum, just because you can find it in a phone book or whatever, does not give you the right to post it here in conjunction with wild speculation.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying it's acceptable to post the private information here, I wasn't defending the people who did that, because that would end up turning this website into a troll's paradise if it was permitted. I saw the explosion on *griefing* message boards after somebody smeared the phone numbers and addresses and such in a few threads, it was quite the debacle, and I don't want ATS to turn into a troll lounge. I was just saying that it isn't illegal, because I've seen a few people in this thread say that it is. That is all. I don't think the private information belongs here either.
**(To avoid confusion, I didn't misspell grieving. 'Griefing' is internet slang for harassment.)

reply to post by Laykilla

I'm going to have to say that this is the most logical and rational post in this thread. People are getting too emotional about this, and emotions always result in irrational behavior. I agree with the private information not being posted here, but people should still be allowed to discuss their theories, as long as it doesn't invade the privacy of the people involved.

So, understandably, some people that had their spidey senses tingle watching interviews were not so far off.

As I posted in a thread, the alleged "uncle" of Adam was discovered to be a well known hoaxter. He was arrested a week after making his trip to Newtown, which violated his probation for leaving the state. The background to the story is very creepy, and I invite you to investigate it. In the meantime, consider his televised as well as written interview was taken as gospel by the media. This began the background of mental illness and the involvement of the drug Fanapt allegedly being used to treat Adam.
Here is the thread, linking to the docs from the Feds:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

As a side note, he also hoaxed several of the rich and famous. Explore his youtube for further creepiness.

Moving on, we have the woman that identified herself as the "aunt" of one of the slain children. She had a Facebook page taking donations for the family. Further investigation revealed she also had 4 Facebook pages taking donations for Hurricane Sandy victims.
Links to that are also in the above linked thread.

Lastly, a frantic mother has been revealed, posting pleading messages that images of her alive and well daughter had been used from Flicker to portray one of the victims. The mother has begged anyone seeing her daughters picture on Facebook to ask it to be removed. However, we have all probably seen the childs' image. The damage is done. A thread has been posted on ATS about this, as well.

When the Lt. spoke about prosecuting people, I am sure these are the types he was talking about. However, the fact that these people got as far as they did, some on television that very day, should sound alarm bells that perhaps all is not kosher. There are some real anomalies, these are merely the exposed ones. Nonetheless, if people do not ask the right questions, the people like this won't be discovered.

Do I believe it was a government plot? No. But when I watched the helicopter video of the takedown in the woods, there WAS another person in the left upper corner. Could the police have even missed it themselves? Absolutely.

Anomalies do not equal a government plot. But no one can deny some things are amiss, 3 which I have definitively outlined for you.



ETA: Correction: the link about the mother was not posted here. I will add links.

www.facebook.com...

www.dailypaul.com...
These are only two links, there are many more if you google it. Also several videos.



Link to moms instagram: instagram.com...

reply to post by Libertygal


Two of the things you mention are about totally unrelated people trying to scam money, it has nothing to do with the incident itself, just the worst type of people who always pop up in these types of tragedies.

I can find no reference outside of forums for the alleged mother whose alive child's picture was used, and yet again that has nothing to do with the tragedy itself.

As for your final point, I wouldn't assume the police haven't studied the pic thoroughly and who knows, once they've released their report, if the person was significant, they may include it.

I think the media have a lot to answer for in this event, they are the ones who have muddied the waters, released uncorroborated information and caused all of the confusion, in what was already a very difficult and traumatic event, and I feel that is where the focus should lie, looking at all of the disinfo they have peddled and understand that in the future a more subjective appraisal of events as they unfold should be adopted to prevent the type of wild speculation that has existed on this subject over the last 3 weeks. We at ATS have always doubted the MSM and we should be uniting against their nonsense, not feeding into it.
(This last paragraph not aimed at you btw, just my observation)

reply to post by PaperbackWriter


If you are talking about Putnam CT, that is 78 Miles in the opposite direction from Newtown.. (Putnam is in Windham County) and hardly neighboring, if you are talking about New York, that would be out of my area and wouldn't know much about what they do there, as far as Putnam CT, it is wholly irrelevant to the situation as again it's 78 miles in the opposite direction.

As far as Newtown goes, All I am going to ask is people think for a moment... about the following four things about Connecticut.

1) This is not a large state. There's a lot of town to town overlap of people and families, most everyone knows someone else in another town, and that does extend across the border North into Massachusetts and East into Rhode Island for the most part.

2) Our State legislature is NOT a professional legislature, They are all people that while they are elected, are not full time politicians, they all have other jobs and functions within the state and not all FOR the state, some for private businesses, or some just homemakers and the like.

3) The State of Connecticut was still recovering from triple storm damage over the past 12 months prior. We had Hurricane Irene pummel the Southern portions of the State in Mid 2011, then four months later, Winter Storm Alfred that knocked out infrastructure and power to close to a million people for an extended period of time, Some infrastructure is STILL waiting to be repaired here from that storm and then BOOM Hurricane Sandy hit in 2012 ripping the State apart yet again and hindering the restoration of all services still. When the shooting took place, Fairfield County, New Haven County , Middlesex County and New London County were STILL in recovery mode from the storm, major services still had not been restored along the coastal counties and some services, such as 911, phones and cable were still sporadic.

4) The people here are more apt to help each other out than turn away in a disaster. We saw it during the storms, and we saw it after this shooting, people would assist each other, people would go to a scene of a major incident and pitch in, it's not that unusual for this state, and it's one of the reasons, while I am originally from Los Angeles, I love living here, and have loved living here for close to 25 years on and off.

Put that all together and to have a false flag operation by the United States government would be next to impossible, our state legislature was caught completely off guard, all in their own various jobs and had to be called back to Hartford for this emergency, they are now demanding answers as to how this happened, very vocally. Newtown comprises a lot of land area for a town in this state, and a lot of big names live there, it is a very affluent community, and most of the people that live there are fiercely loyal to their state, not to the US Government. Then you would have to say all of the parents were in on it, unfortunately, this tragedy reached as far as California, with one of the guys who works on the Star Trek series, directly linked to one of the families though his wife, and having lived out this way some time back. He most certainly has no loyalty to the Obama administration. You start to see these patterns when you look at the incident.

It's normal in a situation like this for the BS meter to go off, it's just hat unbelievable that it could have happened, but it did, and now we have to pick up the pieces. Does it mean that because there are "questions" as to exactly what happened that these children didn't die? No it most certainly does not. Does it mean that because people are unique and all react to a child dying differently than you would mean they are actors, no it most certainly does not, it means they are all handling it their own way, and not you or me has the right to say "You laughed, you're an actor, this is fake"

Are there questions sure there are, there always are in a situation like this. Did the media rush too quickly to get out stories, uh huh, most definitely, and they screwed up bad. Is ME Carver a total moron who needs to be fired, yes indeed, we all know it here. Did Adam act alone, probably not, but at this point they aren't releasing information if he didn't, and we can only speculate.. It's one thing to question the events and think there may be a little more to it, but to say that it's some grand conspiracy, and that everyone in the state is in on it (and we all would have to be) is really insulting to CT.

The biggest issue I have with the so called investigating on here is everyone WANTS to see conspiracy here, everyone WANTS this to be more than it was, and that's driving some outrageous claims of fakery and actors.

The media screwed this one up, granted. There's more info to come out, yes, are these real parents, YES they are.

reply to post by vkey08


Well said. Very well said in fact.

reply to post by destination now


I am not certain the "uncle" was trying to scam money. He also attempted to involve himself in the James Holmes shooting, and rather idolizes him. That, coupled with the video clips available in the article as well as youtube lend to something a bit more nefarious. He actually had two dolls in his car with images of Adam and his brother pasted on the dolls' heads. As he drove down the road to the Lanza home, he talked to, and videoed the dolls.

When he was approached by a police officer, he threw the dolls in the floor, and shut off the camera. When he had turned around and was leaving, he had re placed the dolls on the seat beside him, apologizing to the dolls.

As I said, explore his youtube channel. Something beyond strange with this, and how he thought he could just drive there as unabashedly as he did.

He was also photographed by the media kneeling on one knee in prayer at the makeshift memorial.

Also, I posted a direct link to the mothers' own page, so you can see in her own words, what her claims are. Allegedly, Facebook is closing pages relating to it, though I linked one just fine. I also found a post purporting to be from a relative if the mother, stating the allegations were true. Again, something that can be looked in to.

I agree about the media, but yet, it was the media with the questionable overhead shot with the woods takedown that shows a possible missed suspect.

The whole point being, when you have idiosincracies like this, it makes people start to bacjtrack and question everything. Until things can be solidly debunked, one can expect them to continue to ask questions.

Continued from my last post:

And because they are real parents, these claims of fakery and actors is violating their civil rights, and there's the kicker and I think why SO and Springer went they way they did. It's bad enough to lose a young child to a senseless act of violence, but then to have your rights totally trashed by internet armchair detectives who think they have all the answers, well that would make any person go a little nuts, and these parents HAVE THE INTERNET they can search and see what we are all saying, what part of that does everyone not get. One parent is even contemplating charges and a lawsuit against this other place called Cluesforum for their blatant posting of all of their pictures and claiming they are somehow photoshopped simulations of non real people... and I for one hope they do, this is a tragedy and it needs to be treated as such.

But that brings up another question, what is the underlying issue here. IF Adam was the "lone" gunman, and he was as the media claimed on psych drugs, should we not be starting to question the role the drugs had? Only one person on here has done so so far, and that was a mod.. (I forget which mod I'd like to say Maxmars but i'd have to search again) If he was not the lone gunman, why is everyone focused on a traffic stop in Greenwich? The guy in the woods, that's a better place to start.. NO we have to all focus on someone who's had legal trouble and cause him a bunch of anguish, and have the State Police have to assign him protection because of our actions.. (That was on the news here last evening) at MY taxpayer expense.

Lets then go to another thing, someone mentioned that it didn't happen and it was all BS because they saw no pictures of dead bodies. As I said in another post that's just SICK. As a parent, I know I wouldn't want pictures of my kids dead bodies splattered all over the net, but what gives anyone the right here to demand that they do that? Nothing, it's not your right, to demand these parents behave in any particular way NOR is it your right to see their children's dead bodies, plain and simple.

Another poster said that people have given their opinions based upon their experiences, do any of those experiences deal with a bunch of 6 and 7 year olds being gunned down in class? I would think not, I know in all of my years and all of the crime scenes i've ever seen in my career I never once had to deal with 20 dead small children at the hands of someone or someone's gunning them down during school hours. Certainly was a first for me, and honestly, I still am in a bit of shock over it all, and my only direct involvement was being called in on the day of the incident, just like MANY others in this state.

Connecticut has some of the toughest gun laws in the country, but they will never outright ban them, this state honors the Constitution and believes 100% in it, and our plates even proudly declare that fact, Constitution State, as a lot of the US Constitution is based upon our Charter of Rights from Colonial Times. This still happened, it's sad, it's unfortunate that it did, but it did, and no amount of claiming pictures were altered, or that parents didn't act correctly for you is going to change the fact that 20 small children were shot and killed by person or persons. (Whether Adam alone or in conjunction with another person, we just do not know) We know the Police aren't thinking it publicly, from their statements, BUT that does not mean privately they aren't considering that, since they are not saying, it's all speculation and conjecture on our parts.. We just simply do not know. What we do know is sketchy and fragmented, and filled with questions.

But again, it does not take away from the fact, that 20 small children ages 6 and 7 were killed and that the families have a FEDERALLY PROTECTED RIGHT TO PRIVACY from all of the vulture here, and elsewhere on the net. Just because you give an interview, you do NOT give up the right to privacy. It simply does not work that way.

So before everyone sits there and armchair rips these people apart, think a bit, would you want your privacy violated and every single little thing you do plastered all over the internet? Knowing a lot of the people on this forum, i think not..

I'm going to finish my thoughts, and thank Druid, he knows me better than most people on this site, we've debated numerous times in the debate forum, we participated in the Regent's election on the forum, and we U2U quite often about numerous topics.. I've shared some thoughts about this privately that I will not post publicly, for various reasons, mainly because it's only my gut feelings and not worthy of being ripped apart.

Just back up a little, people are not cookie cutter copies, all people react differently to situations. It's not our place to claim they aren't really reacting because on TV they are nervous and in shock .

reply to post by Libertygal


There is a thread about this on ATS. www.abovetopsecret.com...
WJLA. still has Lillys photo reported as Allison Wyatt.

And www.wjla.com...:html//www.wjla.com/pictures/2012/12/conne cticut-shooting-victims-portraits/allison-wyatt-6--28622-1952.html