Let me start by saying yes I hate guns and No Im not American.
Many gun advocates have told me to mind my own business and not to comment on American laws or issues.
I find this ironic since the argument they will always fall back on is the fact gun ownership is protected by the constitution, well so is free
speech!!! While this may not apply to me we are in an INTERNATIONAL forum where I can give my opinion on anything I like (US law included), whether
you choose to read it or not is upto you.
Unfortunately this is a charged topic and it often descends into petty name calling and veiled insults (I myself have been guilty of this). Im making
this thread in the hopes of getting intelligent discussion going without all the childish stuff. I can and have taken many a verbal beating on this
topic recently and others in the past but on this thread I wont tolerate it. Anyone who responds to me or anyone else with anything less than complete
civility will be reported and hopefully banned.
I actually tried to post this before but was attacked before I could complete the OP.
The sad thing is only 1 poster out of at least 20 bothered to actually read the post and respond appropriately (even though you didnt agree with me
thank you mikenice81)
I will be ignoring any posts that dont specifically address points in this thread, not because I cant handle it or I dont have a response, but because
I only want to discuss whats written here.
I will also ignore people who say my opinion is invalid due to not being American.
Also I am not telling anyone what to do or what not to do, I am merely pointing out the contradictory nature of your arguments, this thread is here so
you can do the same thing to mine.
I will also number each point so that when people post without bothering to read the OP I can direct them to the point that addresses their
Now thats out the way.............
I wanted to address in one comprehensive thread all the arguments I hear touted in the name of gun ownership.
I have gone through many of the recent threads and noted what gun owners have said. Being honest I find all of the arguments to be contradictory and
self defeating, but thats only an opinion.
Below I have listed them 1 by 1 and have addressed them logically and where possible with sources to back them up.
So without further ado
1) Its in our constitution
The 2nd Amendment I just found out (much to my surprise) consists of only 2 sentences
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
The writing is somewhat ambiguous but I take it to mean an armed militia exclusively, not an armed citizenry.
This was written in a time of war on American soil, people being armed was a necessity, it most certainly is not today. America has arguably the best
trained and best equipped military in the world and geographically a land invasion is pretty much impossible. You no longer need guns, the redcoats
are no longer coming.
Someone in the other thread gave me this gem
James Madison, "The Influence of the State and Federal Governments Compared," January 29, 1788:
"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate
governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition
more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms
of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain
that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes. But were the people to possess the additional advantages of local
governments chosen by themselves, that could collect the national will and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the militia, by
these governments and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance that the throne of every tyranny in
Europe would be speedily overturned in spite of the legions which surround it."
IThis was written around the same time as the 2nd amendment, Its actually laughable how out of date the above quote is.
The existence of a subordinate government
and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition more insurmountable than any which a simple
government of any form can admit of.
Your Gov is neither subordinate or lacking in ambition.
Those were very different times, there is no argument from that time or those circumstances that is valid in this day and age
2) We need them to defend ourselves against the government
Once again the US has the best military in the world, what exactly is an AK or even grenade launcher let alone handgun going to do against an army of
tanks, helicopters and drones except make you and your family a target?
Your military consists of American citizens, how many of your troops would be willing to fire on fellow citizens?
If it ever came to the Gov fighting the people I think they would pull out all the stops, even if you went to ground in the forests or mountains
somewhere, they have satellites that can read the writing on a small coin with heat sensing capabilities. How long do you think you will last?
In this day and age the most successful form of rebellion is a peaceful one, look at Egypt or as a better example India, both of these countries
achieved a change of government without violence, why can Americans not consider doing the same if it ever came to that?
3)Its not just the US that has this problem
Sorry but yes it is!!
Every country has murder, people with mental issues, criminals with guns and gun deaths yet no other country in the world has people going into
schools, malls, cinemas etc every few months blasting away at innocent people.
Yes massacres have happened in other places but once again not with anywhere near the frequency that they do in the US. The guns being used by these
people arent home made, they were either purchased legally or stolen from people (usually parents) who did purchase them legally.
Someone mentioned suicide bombers as proof of this being untrue, suicide bombers are politically or ideologically motivated and usually are not
citizens of the country they commit their act in.
These shootings are not politically or ideologically motivated and all so far all perpetrators have been American citizens
4)Its part of our culture/ its a tradition
Just because something is a tradition or part of culture doesnt make it right.
How many of you think female circumcision is correct?
How many of you think honour killings are justified?
How many of you think training bears to dance by putting them on hot plates that burn their feet is right?
All these things are traditions or part of different cultures yet all are in most sensible peoples minds just sick.
Just because something is part of your culture does not make it right.
It could be argued that with the frequency of these shooting sprees that this is now part of your culture!!!
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