Stories of Jesus in Islamic tradition.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Aesir26

 

Verse 5 clearly says that the Lord their God was the one who brought them out of Egypt. Jesus confirmed this. The other "gods" that these verses are speaking of are the ones that tried to turn them away from Yahweh, namely Ishtar.

Jesus never spoke against the God that brought them out of Egypt, but the other "gods". These were the ones that they were supposed to kill, not Jesus.

But then again, we all know that the Israelites had a poor track record for doing what they were actually commanded to do.

Hi Deetermined,

According to Josephus, the Hebrew migration to Aegypt was through Joseph, son of Jacob, vizier to the Pharaoh.
The Hebrews were the Hyksos who infiltrated, divided and conquered the kingdom of Egypt between c. 1800 BC and 1500 BC. They were eventually expelled and driven back to Canaan. Their god was Set(h), the god of the desert storm (sound familiar: Operation Desert Storm) , and of evil and chaos. While in Egypt, they made their fortress in the Delta (familiar? Delta Force). The Hebrews worship Set (i.e. the setting of the sun, the darkness).
Not much has changed in 4000 years...

reply to post by FlyersFan

It has EVERYTHING to do with the topic. If he wouldn't believe a made up story like that .. then he should see how christians (and anyone else for that matter) wouldn't buy into Quran stories about Jesus.

Christians don't buy the Islamic ideas of Jesus, because they want to keep the messiah all to themselves. Ideally Christians should be glad that another religion accepts Jesus as messiah, but instead they try and make arguments against Jesus in Islam.....From saying its a different guy to questioning Islams recognition of him as the messiah, they will use every trick you can think of to deny the truth.

If the bible itself shows he was an human who himself worshipped God, then it is perfectly in harmony with Islams belief of Jesus as a human.

reply to post by Aesir26


Exodus 3:6 (God)

6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Matthew 22:31-32 (Jesus)

31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

John 20:17 (Jesus)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

reply to post by Aesir26

The Hebrews were the Hyksos

No. There was a 300 year difference between the two.

reply to post by FlyersFan

I have posted the quote from Isaiah three times at least. It shows VERY CLEARLY a prophecy about Christ and that he came as a sacrifice. It is VERY biblical.

If those were indeed prophecies that the messiah was to be sacrificed... then its completely logical that the Jews, who knew the book of Isaiah would have realized the man they were crucifying was their own messiah.

reply to post by Deetermined


"Salvation" and "Jesus" in Aramaic/Hebrew is "The Hand of Esau". הושעה and יעשו not Jacob, whose name literally means "Heel-Catcher". The God of Abraham, Isaac and Esau. Jacob stole Esau's rightful inheritance through deception. As sk0rpi0n mentioned, the Bible has been rewritten to serve the interests of Israel. The Old Testament is a hodge-podge of Yahwist; Deuteronomist; Elohist and Priestly sources, often conflicting with one another.

The Hyksos/Hebrews were in Egypt for 300 years before they were driven out in a defensive war due to their treachery.

reply to post by Aesir26


Sorry, I looked up the Hebrew and Arabic translations and it didn't say that at all.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

If those were indeed prophecies that the messiah was to be sacrificed... then its completely logical that the Jews, who knew the book of Isaiah would have realized the man they were crucifying was their own messiah.

No. The Old Testament prophecy came true about the majority of the Jews not recognizing him and rejecting him.

Read Psalm 118:20-22 and Isaiah 53.

reply to post by Deetermined


ויעש As(h)ah accomplish; fulfill Gen 1:7
ועשי As(h)ah accomplish; fulfill Gen 18:16
יעשו As(h)ah accomplish; fulfill Gen 20:9
ישעו Sha'ah see/seer Ex 5:9
הושעה ישע Yasha Saviour/to save 2Sa 14:4
ישוע Yeshua Joshua/Jesus Ez 2:2
יושע Yasha Saviour/ to save Job 22:29
ועיש Ayish Arcturus;"Keeper of Heaven", associated with Jesus Job 38:32

Properly understanding gematria, Esau עֵשָׂו , value 376 is also Nazar(ene) נשיאיה value 376.
This is important.

Re: Arcturus of the constellation Bootes. Bootes is known as the "the Cattleherder/Shepherd" who "gives the boot(e)s" to Serpens Caput ("caput" slang for die; fail; be crushed/ serpens is "serpent)

"He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel." (Gen 3:15)
("Jacob" literally means "Heel-Catcher")

The above makes things "crystal"-clear.
If people can't see it, then:

The god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2 Cor4:4

reply to post by Aesir26

As sk0rpi0n mentioned, the Bible has been rewritten to serve the interests of Israel. The Old Testament is a hodge-podge of Yahwist; Deuteronomist; Elohist and Priestly sources, often conflicting with one another.

Oh sure! It serves the interests of Israel to claim that 2/3 of their people will be cut off and die and that they would be persecuted for all of their time on earth. That doesn't make any sense.

Thank you OP. I really enjoyed reading those (and I'm a pretty devout Christian)! Alhumdulilah.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Christians don't buy the Islamic ideas of Jesus, because they want to keep the messiah all to themselves.

WRONG. Christians don't buy the Isamic ideas of Jesus because, the Islamic Jesus is based on the Quran which is a bunch of made up hog wash. YOU even said you wouldn't believe a book that was written the same way that the Quran was.

The Quran Jesus ...
- No first hand accounts.
- Written hundreds of years after Jesus was alive.
- Contradicts the first hand accounts of the Bible gospels.
- Written by Muhammad ... who had an agenda to try to convert Christians to his made up religion and who had an agenda to try to keep Muslims from becoming Christian. So he made up a bunch of watered down stories about Jesus.

they will use every trick you can think of to deny the truth.

That describes you perfectly ... claiming the bible, which was written by Jesus apostles and their students just after Jesus was alive, is 'made up' and 'wrong' .. but somehow the Quran, which was made up HUNDREDS of years later is somehow accurate.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Matthew 21-42

Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: "'The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes'?

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Aesir26

 

As sk0rpi0n mentioned, the Bible has been rewritten to serve the interests of Israel. The Old Testament is a hodge-podge of Yahwist; Deuteronomist; Elohist and Priestly sources, often conflicting with one another.

Oh sure! It serves the interests of Israel to claim that 2/3 of their people will be cut off and die and that they would be persecuted for all of their time on earth. That doesn't make any sense.

The nation of Israel/Jews rule this world through financial, industrial, executive, legislative and judicial posts (not to mention academia and media). I'd say the god of this world has compensated them quite well with earthly power...

Originally posted by Aesir26
the Bible has been rewritten to serve the interests of Israel.

The Old Testament? Sure. And the QURAN was just stories stolen from the Jews and Christians .. and rewritten .. to serve the interests of Muhammad. And he even threw in a few new ones that he made up. All to serve HIS interests.

Originally posted by Aesir26
Are you saying it is wise to slander the Holy Scriptures?

Truth isn't slander .. it's just truth. And the Quran isn't 'holy scriptures'.
It's a hodgepodge of error and made up fictional stories.
1000 mistakes in the Quran

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Aesir26
the Bible has been rewritten to serve the interests of Israel.

The Old Testament? Sure. And the QURAN was just stories stolen from the Jews and Christians .. and rewritten .. to serve the interests of Muhammad. And he even threw in a few new ones that he made up. All to serve HIS interests.

Not quite. The Qu'ran is a return to the beginning. It is said to have been dictated to Muhammad by the archangel Gabriel to set crooked ways straight once again. We should be thankful of Divine Intervention, not critical of it.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Isaiah 42 is about Jesus. Establish correct context and you will not be decieved. The Tenach and Torah were not written as books, but in scroll form. Go read the beginning of Isaiah in chapter 1 to establish correct context.

Isaiah 41 even sets contextual precedence.

Isaiah 41:

1“Keep silence before Me, O coastlands,
And let the people renew their strength!
Let them come near, then let them speak;
Let us come near together for judgment.

2 “Who raised up one from the east?
Who in righteousness called him to His feet?
Who gave the nations before him,
And made him rule over kings?
Who gave them as the dust to his sword,
As driven stubble to his bow?
3 Who pursued them, and passed safely
By the way that he had not gone with his feet?
4 Who has performed and done it,
Calling the generations from the beginning?
‘I, the Lord, am the first;
And with the last I am He.’”

5 The coastlands saw it and feared,
The ends of the earth were afraid;
They drew near and came.
6 Everyone helped his neighbor,
And said to his brother,
“Be of good courage!”
7 So the craftsman encouraged the goldsmith;
He who smooths with the hammer inspired him who strikes the anvil,
Saying, “It is ready for the soldering”;
Then he fastened it with pegs,
That it might not totter.

8 “But you, Israel, are My servant,
Jacob whom I have chosen,
The descendants of Abraham My friend.
9 You whom I have taken from the ends of the earth,
And called from its farthest regions,
And said to you,
‘You are My servant,
I have chosen you and have not cast you away:
10 Fear not, for I am with you;
Be not dismayed, for I am your God.
I will strengthen you,
Yes, I will help you,
I will uphold you with My righteous right hand.’

11 “Behold, all those who were incensed against you
Shall be ashamed and disgraced;
They shall be as nothing,
And those who strive with you shall perish.
12 You shall seek them and not find them—
Those who contended with you.
Those who war against you
Shall be as nothing,
As a nonexistent thing.
13 For I, the Lord your God, will hold your right hand,
Saying to you, ‘Fear not, I will help you.’

14 “Fear not, you worm Jacob,
You men of Israel!
I will help you,” says the Lord
And your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.
15 “Behold, I will make you into a new threshing sledge with sharp teeth;
You shall thresh the mountains and beat them small,
And make the hills like chaff.
16 You shall winnow them, the wind shall carry them away,
And the whirlwind shall scatter them;
You shall rejoice in the Lord,
And glory in the Holy One of Israel.

17 “The poor and needy seek water, but there is none,
Their tongues fail for thirst.
I, the Lord, will hear them;
I, the God of Israel, will not forsake them.
18 I will open rivers in desolate heights,
And fountains in the midst of the valleys;
I will make the wilderness a pool of water,
And the dry land springs of water.
19 I will plant in the wilderness the cedar and the acacia tree,
The myrtle and the oil tree;
I will set in the desert the cypress tree and the pine
And the box tree together,
20 That they may see and know,
And consider and understand together,
That the hand of the Lord has done this,
And the Holy One of Israel has created it.

The Futility of Idols

21 “Present your case,” says the Lord.
“Bring forth your strong reasons,” says the King of Jacob.
22 “Let them bring forth and show us what will happen;
Let them show the former things, what they were,
That we may consider them,
And know the latter end of them;
Or declare to us things to come.
23 Show the things that are to come hereafter,
That we may know that you are gods;
Yes, do good or do evil,
That we may be dismayed and see it together.
24 Indeed you are nothing,
And your work is nothing;
He who chooses you is an abomination.

25 “I have raised up one from the north,
And he shall come;
From the rising of the sun he shall call on My name;
And he shall come against princes as though mortar,
As the potter treads clay.
26 Who has declared from the beginning, that we may know?
And former times, that we may say, ‘He is righteous’?
Surely there is no one who shows,
Surely there is no one who declares,
Surely there is no one who hears your words.
27 The first time I said to Zion,
‘Look, there they are!’
And I will give to Jerusalem one who brings good tidings.
28 For I looked, and there was no man;
I looked among them, but there was no counselor,
Who, when I asked of them, could answer a word.
29 Indeed they are all worthless;
Their works are nothing;
Their molded images are wind and confusion.

But as i said, start with Isaiah chapter 1.

Originally posted by Aesir26


Properly understanding gematria, Esau עֵשָׂו , value 376 is also Nazar(ene) נשיאיה value 376.
This is important.

How is comparing Esau to Nazarene important?

Re: Arcturus of the constellation Bootes. Bootes is known as the "the Cattleherder/Shepherd" who "gives the boot(e)s" to Serpens Caput ("caput" slang for die; fail; be crushed/ serpens is "serpent)

"He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel." (Gen 3:15)
("Jacob" literally means "Heel-Catcher")

Genesis 3:14-15

14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Yes, the Bible shows that Jacob's descendants would bruise the heel of Esau's descendants. Same between Isaac and Ishmael.

So, tell me again what your point was?

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

Matthew 21-42

Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: "'The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes'?

That's right.

Psalm 118:20-23

20 This gate of the Lord, into which the righteous shall enter.

21 I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation.

22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.

23 This is the Lord's doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.