Stories of Jesus in Islamic tradition.

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posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 05:52 AM
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Originally posted by babloyi
According to your scriptures, he seemed quite troubled that God had forsaken him on the cross.

He was true God but also true Man.
If YOU were left to die on a cross .. wouldn't you think God had abandoned YOU?
I certainly would.
And Christ was quoting scripture when he cried out to God ...
Psalm 22
So even when he was dying and crying out .. he was still praying to God.


So you believe that for mankind to be saved, an innocent man had to be brutally tortured and executed, the more brutal, the better. Cool.

Suffering sucks. Take it up with God. He's the one that gave the Isaiah prophecy about Christ being a sacrifice. He's the one who didn't save Christ from being murdered. He's the one that leaves millions of His followers to be slaughtered. He's the one that leaves people to die from horrid diseases. He's the one that leaves people to starve to death. He's the one that allows babies to die in the womb or to be born horribly deformed. etc etc. God seems to be into suffering .... so take it up with HIM.




posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 05:53 AM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Aesir26
 


That still doesn't answer the question as to how you could possibly know that Muslims wouldn't kill Jesus today if they saw him too. But then, you'd have to understand Jesus' original message to know what he would say.



He was killed by the Jews/Romans (same difference) for preaching against the captivity of the law of Yahweh, a djinn.


They are clearly of Middle East descent, most likely practice Islam. That is why they said it. Please stop going off topic. You are allowing them to go off topic and evade actual tough questions.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 05:55 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 





Please stay on topic. Rather than make 'attacks' let's simply try to come to agreements.


It's obvious that you haven't debated with Skorpion before. There is no such thing as coming to an agreement. As you can see, his best defense is repeating himself over and over until you give up on him.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 05:56 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 



Yeah I know Jewish tradition insists Jesus Christ was amoung other things: a blasphemer / a false messiah / son of a whoare etc etc

Islam and Christianity have both been in my opinion changed since their original teachings were first given and it is these changes which detracters are highlighting. These changes were made by the religion known as mystery babylon, freemasonry, zionism, mormonism, the roshaniya (The illumined ones of Afghanistan), Muslim Brotherhood etc etc)

Islam and Christianity are of God according to 1 John 4 - If Islam confessed that he came in the flesh but was a bastard son of a whoare etc then I would have a problem with Islam but this is not so in Islamic doctrines.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 05:56 AM
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Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by Aesir26

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by Aesir26
 


Christian Jesus. Sacrified on the cross. Was Divine (God in the flesh)

Islam Jesus. Was saved on the cross he did not die. Was not Divine, simply a man.

Which of those two do you believe?


The "Christian" Jesus is the Babylonian shepherd-god, "Tammuz/Dumuzi".
His consort is Ishtar, who is Mary Queen of Heaven.

Tammuz is the fourth month of the Hebrew calendar.
The Hebrew calendar comes directly from the Babylonian lunar-solar calendar, Tammuz being "Dumuzu".
This is the time of the summer solstice. Tammuz is also Yahweh Shamesh, the sun god.
Babylonians/Jews/Rome worship the sun and the moon: the seven ancient planets, in totality.
That is why the number "7" is so important to Jews.

The historical Jesus was one of the greatest prophets of the God Most High.
He was killed by the Jews/Romans (same difference) for preaching against the captivity of the law of Yahweh, a djinn. According to the Talmud, the Nazarene was stoned to death by the Sanhedrin.


edit on 12-12-2012 by Aesir26 because: (no reason given)


Why did you claim to be Christian when you are obviously not? You also did not answer my simple question. You apparently think a wall of text will make me forget what I asked.


"But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ. For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully... For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." 2Cor 3-4,13-14

The original Aramaic, Syriac and Greek gospels/epistles were redacted and interpolated by Yahwist Judaizers.

"Upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it".

Al Khazneh, Petra ("The Treasury of the Rock"):
en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 05:56 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


For the 3rd time .... ANSWER MY QUESTION ...

Would you buy the book I'd write about Muhammad?
It's been hundreds of years since he was alive.
I have no primary sources of information about him.
Everything I'm writing about him contradicts the Quran.
I would have an agenda to get Muslims not to be Muslim but to convert to Christianity
But I"m going to claim that God told me to write it.

So would you buy the book?
If not .. then why do you buy into the Quran Jesus stories??
That's exactly how the QURAN Jesus stories came about.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:02 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 



Mat 20:28 (Jesus Himself is speaking)
just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."
Mat 26:28 (Jesus Himself is speaking)
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

That is Jesus Himself speaking. Explain those verses.


I already did on page 2.

Besides, God forgives people based on prayer and repentance.... NOT human sacrifice.

Also, we read in several places that one man cannot bear the sins of another.

No man can by any means redeem his brother, or give to G-d a ransom for him
-Psalms 49:7

Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin
-Deuteronomy 24:16,

But everyone will die for his own sin; each man who eats sour grapes, his teeth will be set on edge
-Jeremiah 31:30

The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself
-Ezekiel 18:20

Can you explain these verses?



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:09 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Islam is of God and Mohammad is a true prophet.

No ... Islam is not of God and Mohammad is not a true prophet.
One look at the Quran and the life of Mohammad and that's easy to see.
Political murders .. lies ... mass slaughters of 'unbelievers' ....
Not exactly 'holy' behavior and not exactly a 'holy' way to run a religion.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
I'm not asking anybody to ignore the Biblical Jesus. The purpose of the OP was to broaden ones understanding of Jesus' character by also taking into account Islamic traditions on Jesus.

There is nothing in the Quran about Jesus that is authentic and therefore there is nothing in the Quran that can 'broaden ones understanding of Jesus'. The stories are not true and therefore they are useless.


Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Actually, the authors of the BIble, have hijacked the scriptures of the Hebrews and twisted it to suit their ends.
Islam was a seperate revelation to a man living miles away from Israel.

You don't think that Muhammad .. a political opportunist who murdered his political rivals .. didn't do exactly what you are accusing the Christians of doing? That's funny! The dude took Jewish and Christian teachings and twisted them and claimed God told him the new tales ... FOR HIS OWN POLITICAL ADVANCEMENT.

edit on 12/12/2012 by FlyersFan because: spelling



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:10 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Besides, God forgives people based on prayer and repentance.... NOT human sacrifice.
Also, we read in several places that one man cannot bear the sins of another.


Jesus the Suffering Servant

Jesus fulfills the prophecy of Isaiah about the Suffering Servant bearing the iniquities (sins) of humanity.

Isaiah 53 - The prophecy of Jesus

52:13 Behold, my servant shall prosper, he shall be exalted and lifted up, and shall be very high. 52:14 As many were astonished at him ­­his appearance was so marred, beyond human semblance, and his form beyond that of the sons of men ­­ 52:15 so shall he sprinkle many nations; kings shall shut their mouths because of him;
for that which has not been told them they shall see, and that which they have not heard they shall understand.
53:1 Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? 53:2 For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no form or comeliness that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him. 53:3 He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 53:4 Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted. 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that made us whole, and with his stripes we are healed. 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth. 53:8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for the transgression of my people? 53:9 And they made his grave with the wicked and with a rich man in his death, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth. 53:10 Yet it was the will of the LORD to bruise him; he has put him to grief; when he makes himself an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring, he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand; 53:11 he shall see the fruit of the travail of his soul and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous; and he shall bear their iniquities. 53:12 Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul to death,
and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:11 AM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 





Please stay on topic. Rather than make 'attacks' let's simply try to come to agreements.


It's obvious that you haven't debated with Skorpion before. There is no such thing as coming to an agreement. As you can see, his best defense is repeating himself over and over until you give up on him.


Oh I agree. And you are letting him do it. If you notice I am not letting him get away with it. Your remarks give him an 'out' so he does not have to answer me. I will hammer away with 1 single thing and force him to answer. If he does not, I will reply with the same topic until he does so.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:12 AM
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Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by Aesir26

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by Aesir26
reply to post by Aesir26
 


A hypothetical:

If a Muslim met Jesus, he would invite Him into his home, feed Him and give Him lodging.
If a Jew met Jesus, they would have Him either stoned, thrown off a cliff, or crucified.


How can you possibly know or say that? I'm pretty sure if Jesus came back today and told all of the Muslims that he was God incarnate that they'd stone him, throw him off of a cliff and execute him too.


I can say that because according to Jewish law, that's precisely what Jews are instructed to do:

“If your brother, your mother’s son, or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods’ (whom neither you nor your fathers have known, of the gods of the peoples who are around you, near you or far from you, from one end of the earth to the other end), you shall not yield to him or listen to him; and your eye shall not pity him, nor shall you spare or conceal him. “But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. “So you shall stone him to death because he has sought to seduce you from Yahweh your God." (Deu 13:6-10)


You believe Deu has any bearing on how a Jew would act today? You are deluded if you think so.


Yes. It is one of the 613 Laws of the Torah and as such, is unbreakable according to Jews/Jus ("Followers of the Law")

"So they were saying to Him, “Where is Your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father; if you knew Me, you would know My Father also.” These words He spoke in the treasury, as He taught in the temple." (John 8:19-20)
edit on 12-12-2012 by Aesir26 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:14 AM
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Originally posted by whyallthefuss
reply to post by Deetermined
 



Islam and Christianity are of God according to 1 John 4 - If Islam confessed that he came in the flesh but was a bastard son of a whoare etc then I would have a problem with Islam but this is not so in Islamic doctrines.


Let's look at those verses again...

1 John 4 (King James Bible)

1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

2By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

3and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist

Pay careful attention to verse 3. If Muslims don't believe half of what Jesus said, then they can't really believe that he came from God, now can they?

"Confessing Jesus" means more than knowing that he came in the flesh. Like I said, even the Jews knew he came in the flesh.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:14 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 



Mat 20:28 (Jesus Himself is speaking)
just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."
Mat 26:28 (Jesus Himself is speaking)
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

That is Jesus Himself speaking. Explain those verses.


I already did on page 2.


Yes, I can answer that. Every person sins. Every person deserves death based on THEIR own sin. I have no idea why you post those verses. On page 2 you did not answer me. You tried to tell me Ransom is a dirty word.

Mat 20:28 (Jesus Himself is speaking)
just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."
Mat 26:28 (Jesus Himself is speaking)
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Explain those verses. What is Jesus saying?



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:15 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


I'd probably buy your book just to see what you have to say. Doesn't mean I'll change my beliefs.

So tell me again, you yourself doubted the accuracy of the NT account in your thread.
So why defend the bible here?



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:15 AM
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Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
I will hammer away with 1 single thing and force him to answer.

I'm still waiting for an answer as to if he'd buy the book I'd write on Muhammad.


Anyone want to buy one? I think I'll write one and say it's from God. I'll have new stories never heard before .. all about Muhammad. I won't have spoken to anyone who knew him .. it's been hundreds of years since he was around. And it'll all contradict the QURAN. So I'll say the QURAN is wrong. All to fit an agenda to make Muslims doubt their religion.

Still waiting to see if the OP would by the book.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:18 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
I'd probably buy your book just to see what you have to say. Doesn't mean I'll change my beliefs.

Since you admit you wouldn't change your beliefs .. then why on earth would you expect Christians to buy into anything the QURAN says about Jesus?? The Quran Jesus stories are obviously made up hogwash. They have absolutely no value. They are FICTION that was written to make Christians want to convert and to mislead Muslims into thinking Jesus was mearly a man.

So tell me again, you yourself doubted the accuracy of the NT account in your thread.
So why defend the bible here?

I'm defending the fact that the bible has a better chance at being accurate than the Quran when it comes to Jesus. Based upon primary sources and time lines. That's the truth of the matter.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:19 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
I will hammer away with 1 single thing and force him to answer.

I'm still waiting for an answer as to if he'd buy the book I'd write on Muhammad.


Anyone want to buy one? I think I'll write one and say it's from God. I'll have new stories never heard before .. all about Muhammad. I won't have spoken to anyone who knew him .. it's been hundreds of years since he was around. And it'll all contradict the QURAN. So I'll say the QURAN is wrong. All to fit an agenda to make Muslims doubt their religion.

Still waiting to see if the OP would by the book.


It has nothing to do with the topic and you are giving the OP an out to avoid actual questions. It's meaningless really. I am using quotes and facts, not opinions and makebelieve.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:20 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by FlyersFan
 


I'd probably buy your book just to see what you have to say. Doesn't mean I'll change my beliefs.

So tell me again, you yourself doubted the accuracy of the NT account in your thread.
So why defend the bible here?


Mat 20:28 (Jesus Himself is speaking)
just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."
Mat 26:28 (Jesus Himself is speaking)
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Explain those verses. What is Jesus saying?

Don't tell me you did, you did not. Tell me the exact meaning of those verses.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:22 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 



Yes, I can answer that. Every person sins. Every person deserves death based on THEIR own sin. I have no idea why you post those verses.

I posted those verses to show the biblical teaching that one man cannot bear the sins of another.
Thereby refuting completely the idea that Jesus' death could take away the sins of another.

Those 2 verses that Jesus spoke are not talking about human sacrifice. Just because he spoke of blood, doesn't mean he was alluding to a human sacrifice.



On page 2 you did not answer me. You tried to tell me Ransom is a dirty word.

And that was your answer.
'Ransom' IS a dirty word in the context Christians use it... because God is not an unforgiving tyrant who demanded the "ransom" of Jesus' life.

Besides...

No man can by any means redeem his brother, or give to God a ransom for him
-Psalms 49:7


Explain that for me.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:22 AM
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Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Oh I agree. And you are letting him do it. If you notice I am not letting him get away with it. Your remarks give him an 'out' so he does not have to answer me. I will hammer away with 1 single thing and force him to answer. If he does not, I will reply with the same topic until he does so.


Be prepared for a war of repeating oneself from both sides!





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