Stories of Jesus in Islamic tradition., page 8

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

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You have given zero verses and have only offered your opinion. I listed verses that specificially state Jesus death was a sin sacrifice. How do you rectify that?

Should I post the entire account of Jesus' arrest, trial, torture and execution....for you to understand Jesus was 'killed' via execution....and that it was not a "sacrifice"?

1Cr 15:3
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance [fn]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
1Pe 3:18
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,

No just explain those verses.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

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1Cr 15:3
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

This is Pauls opinion.

1Pe 3:18
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,

This is the opinion of whoever was claiming to be Peter.

Interesting fact : At no point during his arrest / trial / torture / crucifixion did Jesus ever say anything that indicated he was part of a "sin sacrifice". Doesn't matter if some people had developed a theology that Jesus' death was actually a sin sacrifice. It doesn't change the fact that Jesus' "death" was an execution.

1 John 4 (King James Bible)


1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
3and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist

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In Islams Koran I read that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh and that he was the messiah.

In Judaisms most holy book the Talmud I read he was a false messiah, heres one quote.......

Gittin 57a. Says Jesus is in hell, being boiled in "hot excrement."

The talmud also says he was a blasphemer and that his mother Mary was a whoare.

Following the instructions given in 1 John 4 of the bible and applying them to Islamic and Judaic doctrines produces polar opposites in terms of results, one is of God one is not.

In the last days Revelation warns not of the mosque of satan but of the synagogue of satan and of a religion made up of followers who say they are Jews but are not but do lie. The synagogue of satan verse is repeated twice in Revelation to emphasise its importance. The synagogue of satan we were warned about is what we know today as Zionism / British Israelism / Royal Bloodlines for more excellent information on this here are 2 mp3s loaded with irrefutable documentation for those who are interested in the truth:

www.hourofthetime.com... Christian Identity – British Israelism #1

www.hourofthetime.com... Christian Identity – British Israelism #2


Before the attempted Bill Cooper character assasinations are dragged into this here is a quote from Bill that deals with this.

In the forward to his book "Behold a Pale Horse" Cooper states:

"...attempts to assassinate my character will continue and in all probability will become worse. Rather than let that get in the way, I want you to believe everything bad that you ever hear about me. See if that changes anything that I have been trying to tell you. See if it negates any of the proof."


Peace.

Originally posted by Aesir26
reply to post by Aesir26

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A hypothetical:

If a Muslim met Jesus, he would invite Him into his home, feed Him and give Him lodging.
If a Jew met Jesus, they would have Him either stoned, thrown off a cliff, or crucified.

How can you possibly know or say that? I'm pretty sure if Jesus came back today and told all of the Muslims that he was God incarnate that they'd stone him, throw him off of a cliff and execute him too.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by Aesir26

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Christian Jesus. Sacrified on the cross. Was Divine (God in the flesh)

Islam Jesus. Was saved on the cross he did not die. Was not Divine, simply a man.

Which of those two do you believe?

The "Christian" Jesus is the Babylonian shepherd-god, "Tammuz/Dumuzi".
His consort is Ishtar, who is Mary Queen of Heaven.

Tammuz is the fourth month of the Hebrew calendar.
The Hebrew calendar comes directly from the Babylonian lunar-solar calendar, Tammuz being "Dumuzu".
This is the time of the summer solstice. Tammuz is also Yahweh Shamesh, the sun god.
Babylonians/Jews/Rome worship the sun and the moon: the seven ancient planets, in totality.
That is why the number "7" is so important to Jews.

The historical Jesus was one of the greatest prophets of the God Most High.
He was killed by the Jews/Romans (same difference) for preaching against the captivity of the law of Yahweh, a djinn. According to the Talmud, the Nazarene was stoned to death by the Sanhedrin.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

---

1Cr 15:3
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

This is Pauls opinion.

1Pe 3:18
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,

This is the opinion of whoever was claiming to be Peter.

Interesting fact : At no point during his arrest / trial / torture / crucifixion did Jesus ever say anything that indicated he was part of a "sin sacrifice". Doesn't matter if some people had developed a theology that Jesus' death was actually a sin sacrifice. It doesn't change the fact that Jesus' "death" was an execution.

edit on 12-12-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

So you admit the Bible is wrong. Thank you. That is all I wanted to hear. The Bible is wrong, your book is right. Biblical Jesus is wrong, Islamic Jesus is right. So now how do you expect people to believe Biblical Jesus is wrong when Biblical Jesus was written about for hundreds of years before Mohammad took his first breath?

Originally posted by Aesir26

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by Aesir26

---

Christian Jesus. Sacrified on the cross. Was Divine (God in the flesh)

Islam Jesus. Was saved on the cross he did not die. Was not Divine, simply a man.

Which of those two do you believe?

The "Christian" Jesus is the Babylonian shepherd-god, "Tammuz/Dumuzi".
His consort is Ishtar, who is Mary Queen of Heaven.

Tammuz is the fourth month of the Hebrew calendar.
The Hebrew calendar comes directly from the Babylonian lunar-solar calendar, Tammuz being "Dumuzu".
This is the time of the summer solstice. Tammuz is also Yahweh Shamesh, the sun god.
Babylonians/Jews/Rome worship the sun and the moon: the seven ancient planets, in totality.
That is why the number "7" is so important to Jews.

The historical Jesus was one of the greatest prophets of the God Most High.
He was killed by the Jews/Romans (same difference) for preaching against the captivity of the law of Yahweh, a djinn. According to the Talmud, the Nazarene was stoned to death by the Sanhedrin.

edit on 12-12-2012 by Aesir26 because: (no reason given)

Why did you claim to be Christian when you are obviously not? You also did not answer my simple question. You apparently think a wall of text will make me forget what I asked.

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by Aesir26
reply to post by Aesir26

---

A hypothetical:

If a Muslim met Jesus, he would invite Him into his home, feed Him and give Him lodging.
If a Jew met Jesus, they would have Him either stoned, thrown off a cliff, or crucified.

How can you possibly know or say that? I'm pretty sure if Jesus came back today and told all of the Muslims that he was God incarnate that they'd stone him, throw him off of a cliff and execute him too.

I can say that because according to Jewish law, that's precisely what Jews are instructed to do:

“If your brother, your mother’s son, or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods’ (whom neither you nor your fathers have known, of the gods of the peoples who are around you, near you or far from you, from one end of the earth to the other end), you shall not yield to him or listen to him; and your eye shall not pity him, nor shall you spare or conceal him. “But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. “So you shall stone him to death because he has sought to seduce you from Yahweh your God." (Deu 13:6-10)

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

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Go read Isaiah 42. It is a prophetic chapter that foretells a certain "servant of God" operating in Kedar and the wilderness (Arabia)... a prophet who would shame idolaters... and establish the worship of God. Those prophecies were fulfilled ONLY by Mohammad.... who destroyed the idols and defeated the idolaters to establish a religion that recognized Jesus as Messiah.

This has been explained to you hundreds of times and you continue to ignore it.

Muhammad is not mentioned in the Bible.

Repeating yourself over and over again doesn't make it so.

reply to post by Deetermined

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This has been explained to you hundreds of times and you continue to ignore it.

It has only been discussed a lot...and all I've heard is the denial by Christians. Its not an "explanation".

I also don't recall anybody telling me the name of the prophet who operated in Kedar and the wilderness, shaming the idolaters.

Originally posted by Aesir26

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by Aesir26
reply to post by Aesir26

---

A hypothetical:

If a Muslim met Jesus, he would invite Him into his home, feed Him and give Him lodging.
If a Jew met Jesus, they would have Him either stoned, thrown off a cliff, or crucified.

How can you possibly know or say that? I'm pretty sure if Jesus came back today and told all of the Muslims that he was God incarnate that they'd stone him, throw him off of a cliff and execute him too.

I can say that because according to Jewish law, that's precisely what Jews are instructed to do:

“If your brother, your mother’s son, or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods’ (whom neither you nor your fathers have known, of the gods of the peoples who are around you, near you or far from you, from one end of the earth to the other end), you shall not yield to him or listen to him; and your eye shall not pity him, nor shall you spare or conceal him. “But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. “So you shall stone him to death because he has sought to seduce you from Yahweh your God." (Deu 13:6-10)

You believe Deu has any bearing on how a Jew would act today? You are deluded if you think so.

reply to post by Deetermined

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There's plenty in the Qu'ran that shows that Muhammad hijacked the Bible and twisted it's teachings.

Actually, the authors of the BIble, have hijacked the scriptures of the Hebrews and twisted it to suit their ends.

Islam was a seperate revelation to a man living miles away from Israel.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Deetermined

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This has been explained to you hundreds of times and you continue to ignore it.

It has only been discussed a lot...and all I've heard is the denial by Christians. Its not an "explanation".

I also don't recall anybody telling me the name of the prophet who operated in Kedar and the wilderness, shaming the idolaters.

Please stay on topic. This is your post Skorpion.

Mat 20:28 (Jesus Himself is speaking)
just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."
Mat 26:28 (Jesus Himself is speaking)
This is my blood of the [fn] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

That is Jesus Himself speaking. Explain those verses.

reply to post by whyallthefuss

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2By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

Even Jews know that Jesus came in the flesh.

Originally posted by babloyi
Also, are you suggesting that the "righteous path" was the one that involved bloody human sacrifice?
Yeah...no, sorry, that doesn't work.

Yeah .. no, sorry, it DOES work that way. At least, according to scripture ...

Jesus the Suffering Servant

Jesus fulfills the prophecy of Isaiah about the Suffering Servant bearing the iniquities (sins) of humanity.

Isaiah 53 - The prophecy of Jesus

52:13 Behold, my servant shall prosper, he shall be exalted and lifted up, and shall be very high. 52:14 As many were astonished at him ­­his appearance was so marred, beyond human semblance, and his form beyond that of the sons of men ­­ 52:15 so shall he sprinkle many nations; kings shall shut their mouths because of him;
for that which has not been told them they shall see, and that which they have not heard they shall understand.
53:1 Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? 53:2 For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no form or comeliness that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him. 53:3 He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 53:4 Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted. 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that made us whole, and with his stripes we are healed. 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth. 53:8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for the transgression of my people? 53:9 And they made his grave with the wicked and with a rich man in his death, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth. 53:10 Yet it was the will of the LORD to bruise him; he has put him to grief; when he makes himself an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring, he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand; 53:11 he shall see the fruit of the travail of his soul and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous; and he shall bear their iniquities. 53:12 Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul to death,
and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by whyallthefuss

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2By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

Even Jews know that Jesus came in the flesh.

You are not really helping. It's becoming an arguing match with no one caring what the other side has to say. If you wish to discuss something pick something relevant to the OP and stay on target, be focused, do not go off on tangents. Force answers to tough questions. You can not make a person change their mind. I am engaging on the OP on his terms, that is the only way you can talk to someone of a different faith really.

reply to post by Aesir26

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That still doesn't answer the question as to how you could possibly know that Muslims wouldn't kill Jesus today if they saw him too. But then, you'd have to understand Jesus' original message to know what he would say.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Deetermined

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There's plenty in the Qu'ran that shows that Muhammad hijacked the Bible and twisted it's teachings.

Actually, the authors of the BIble, have hijacked the scriptures of the Hebrews and twisted it to suit their ends.

Islam was a seperate revelation to a man living miles away from Israel.

The authors of the New Testament didn't twist the Old Testament, they only showed that the Old Testament prophecy was coming true. They didn't change the message like Muhammad did.

The problem with Islam is that it was only a "revelation" to one man who had no witnesses.

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