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Discussing the recently appeared science underground papers of "Daniel"

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posted on Nov, 8 2012 @ 11:08 PM
reply to post by DrGod

Your "conscious self" is a byproduct of neural interactions. No nerves, no self.

posted on Nov, 8 2012 @ 11:58 PM
reply to post by Blarneystoner

A photon in motion is a wave not a particle... I guess you're not familiar with the wave/particle duality of photons... makes it difficult to discuss this with you.

That is completely irrelevant. All sub-atomic particles exhibit particle-wave duality, and yet most of those particles cannot travel at the speed of light.

I'm not entirely sure whether photons have a rest mass or not, but that doesn't really matter either, because even if they do have a rest mass it's so small, with a photon being a discrete packet of the smallest energy units (a quanta), that they may as well have a 0 mass for all intents and purposes.

So you're entirely correct, anything with a mass larger than that of a photon (anything with a non-zero mass), cannot reach the speed of light. So the problem is not getting enough fuel to reach FTL speeds, because that is impossible. The problem can't be solved by pushing mass through space.

There are only two solutions I can see: push the space around the craft by warping it (warp drive) or to reduce the mass of the craft to that of a photon. A NASA scientist recently released news saying that a warp drive mechanism may be plausible, and may allow speeds up to 10x the speed of light. Also see Is Warp Drive Possible?

I find the second option more interesting myself. I think it could be potentially possible to create a mechanism which alters the vibrational state of matter to the frequency of a photon and in doing so creates a state where the matter acts like a photon and has no rest mass, only a relativistic mass.

posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 12:17 AM
reply to post by ChaoticOrder

Which "vibrational state" of matter would that be? Photons can have pretty much any frequency higher than zero.

posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 12:32 AM

Originally posted by Bedlam
reply to post by ChaoticOrder

Which "vibrational state" of matter would that be? Photons can have pretty much any frequency higher than zero.

That is completely true actually. The second solution of reducing the mass to that of a photon is of course highly speculative at best, I don't know if it's possible or how exactly it would work. The solution would seem to be that you need to have a craft made of light... which I think would be called a superluminal craft.

posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 12:40 AM

Originally posted by DrGod

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by AutOmatIc

Well that was one of the parts which I really had a harder time believing. I just can't seem to understand how physics or evolution would permit some sort of sudden evolutionary shift into some sort of so called 4th density.

If the amount of energy released into our atmosphere increases to an extreme level, then perhaps we could obtain all of the energy we needed so that we would no longer need our physical, food eating, energy creating bodies anymore. Perhaps we (our conscious self), could escape our bodies and enter a new realm, or dimension of "life".

Yeah but I simply can't imagine how our biology could suddenly adapt to harness energy in a totally different way. It's just not plausible, unless we were created by an intelligent designer, which I don't believe. I believe we were designed by mother nature over billions of years, and mother nature has no way of predicting this miraculous shift into a higher density which will require us to have completely different biology.
edit on 9/11/2012 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 12:41 AM

Originally posted by FlySolo
reply to post by consolution

I was going to give you a S&F but then I noticed this "daniel" person is affiliated with Project Camelot. I dunno, Wilcox strikes me a bit odd and their fact checking standards are below par. They have some amazing stories but they never check credentials of the people they interview.

With that alone, I'm out.

I have to agree with you flysolo
Before I woke up to be woken up :-) I used to listen Camelot and David and nothing in these papers is new I have heard many interviews on her show over the years with them saying this same duff over and over again.

posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 01:03 AM

Originally posted by Power_Semi
Time is just a man made concept related to the revolution of the earth around the sun.

You can't "access" it, it is not a thing, it is a concept.

posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 01:31 AM
This pretty much made my mind up:

The petrochemicals will raise the Gulf temperatures substantially, alter the natural course of weather systems in the northern hemisphere, and raise the global temperature 2-3 degrees C, which will actually give the northern hemisphere a richer growing season for a while - at the expense of the southern hemisphere, which will be ecologically devastated. Of course, land there will get really cheap and be bought up by the big Oil folks-how much of Chile and Argentina has BushCo bought?

It would be convincing if the author of these papers actually had a basic grasp of geography. Both of the countries he mentions would benefit from longer growing periods because of global warming, being that they are at about the same distance from the equator as the US, with Chile reaches way down, almost reaching the antarctic, making its southern lands comparable to Alaska. I guess that this "in the know" scientist doesn't realize that the planet is a sphere and that its tilt is what governs the seasons in both its northern and southern hemispheres.

edit on 9-11-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 02:15 AM

Originally posted by DrGod

If the amount of energy released into our atmosphere increases to an extreme level, then perhaps we could obtain all of the energy we needed so that we would no longer need our physical, food eating, energy creating bodies anymore. Perhaps we (our conscious self), could escape our bodies and enter a new realm, or dimension of "life".

So the sun's going to burn us all up and we're all going to explode and die?
The new realm our 'conscious self' escapes our bodies to will most likely be the illusion of timelessness in the second before our bodies (and any conscious self we believe we have) die completely.
Sorry, not picking on you, but it was amusing in that what you described really just sounded like a fancy way of saying 'death by extreme solar flare'.
(edit) or maybe by supernova? That would also be a large amount of energy released into our atmosphere.
edit on 9-11-2012 by delusion because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 04:18 AM
reply to post by ChaoticOrder

Only massless objects can move at the speed of light. For something that has mass to move faster than light, apparantly requires such vast quantities of power, that it becomes utterly implausible.

Also, on the topic of the article itself, there is a section which witters on about FTL activity on or by the sun. There isnt any. What utter garbage. To the Failmobile!

*swishes cape, buggers off for cup of tea*

posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 04:55 AM
Daniel is David Wilcock spouting spouting a load of nonsense. Believe me.

posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 05:00 AM

Originally posted by JayDub113
Thanks for the thread.. Some of this is fascinating. They are doling it out sure enough. Anybody see "Fringe" last week? They set up a small cubical device of some kind and what did it do? Why it made a window to the future of course.
Very interesting read. I especially liked the part about getting stuck in the green and blanking out. It just rings true to a degree. Awesome post.

Ye, anyone see Fringe last week ?

Because there are hidden messages in crap TV series that pretend to be SciFi, didn't ya know ?



edit on 9-11-2012 by qvision because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 05:38 AM
reply to post by TrueBrit

You obviously haven't read anything I said in this thread. You just repeated something which has already been said.

posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 05:56 AM
I'm surprised by how many are entertaining the possibility that this lazy, amateurish hoax is real. I say lazy and amateurish because the hoaxer made absolutely no effort to present the material in an appropriate form. He simply states a dubious back story in his opening paragraph and begins to lay out ill informed technobabble. Here's what he should have done instead:

Buy a couple of old typewriters at a flea market. Find scans of old military/intelligence/academic documents on the Web. Use document editing equipment to remove everything but the letterheads from the pages. Print out the blank letterheads. Use the old typewriters to create a series of "classified memos," "project reports," and so forth. Use a heavy black marker to remove any names that can be checked out. Stamp them all "Top Secret." Fold, smudge, etc. Photograph with an old film camera. Scan, post anonymously. People would become so obsessed trying to figure out if the documents were genuine that they would not notice how risible the science fiction part is.

It's worked before.

posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 07:13 AM

Originally posted by consolution
Hello Everybody,

two science underground papers recently appeared on the web. The author calls himself "Daniel" and claims to have worked in the Phoenix III project, the time travel aspect of the Montauk project as he says.

Both papers appeared on and can be downloaded here

The first paper is entitled "Geoengineering, Chemtrails, HAARP, World Orders, Time Lines and Ascension".

The paper can be downloaded through this link: Daniel's Paper #1.

The second paper is called "Time and Timelines". The download link is here: Daniel's Paper #2

Both papers can also be viewed at through this link: Daniel's papers #1 and #2

Now, he makes a few extraordinary claims and as it touches on scientific concepts that are difficult to grasp and verify, I would love to discuss some of the assumptions here, hoping to get more insights and opinions from scientifically inclined ATS members.

I will go through the papers step by step starting with the first statement that struck me. Thanks to anybody participating in a constructive manner, especially to those that take the time and effort to explain some science to a layman of natural sciences like me.

So the first statement Daniel makes that I wondered about is this in paragraph 3 of paper #1:

In order to access time , a navigation computer from a faster-than-light propulsion system was utilized to open a portal, from which a visual record could be made.

He claims that faster-than-light propulsion system have been developed or in use in the Phoenix III/Montauk project. Is that a reasonable thing to say and if so how would these propulsion system work in theory?

I guess "thank you"? Althought I don't know for what since you didn't say much at all

So from all those papers that is the only thing you decides to share?

Geez makes this kind of. Disappoints

posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 07:25 AM
reply to post by qvision

Originally posted by qvision

Because there are hidden messages in crap TV series that pretend to be SciFi, didn't ya know ?

Except I never said that, you did.

I pointed it out because I thought it was an interesting aside.

And why in the world comment on a thread and focus SOLELY on what another poster wrote "as an interesting aside"?

Do you have any comment on the original post, or anything at all, that is constructive, thoughtful, insightful, or prompts more conversation or dialogue?

Of course you don't.

posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 07:35 AM

Originally posted by kwakakev
If we look at the equation E=Mc^2, we are able to accelerate at the speed of light if we are willing to transfer our mass to energy. With our current technology this would end quite messy with processes like annihilation, but theoretically possible if all of the physical properties could be accounted and managed.

As for light itself, I see it operates similar to sound, but instead of atoms and molecules transferring the energy as we get with sound, it is the electrons transferring the energy with light. This approach does help account for the wave / partial duality of light and accounts for why a photon has no mass.

As for how a FTL drive would work, it would have to be on some principle other than electromagnetism if it is to break this barrier. Gravity waves might be a possibility or some other sub atomic interaction on a deeper physical level, like quantum entanglement.

Basically... if you were able to effect your own composition down on a atomtic or smaller level, you'd be able to copy yourself, or as such effect atoms in the destination spot to take the shape of you?

posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 07:50 AM
This is what I get from these papers and the whole situation with Pinky and the Brain (Wilcox and Daniel).
There Sci Fi writers they have a new show they want to become popular like Ancient Aliens they are promoting it this is a way to become successful more money. They talk about their new movie coming out Jan 2013 so obviously they don't believe there own hype about 12/21/2012.

This is too get rating IMO plane and simple i watched the show it was very entertaining Shadow Operations: The Mars Project was pretty good he mentioned Daniel as a source in the show that was taped im assuming months earlier and the Daniel Papers appear on the web the same day as the shows release go figure right.

So Im taking this whole thing as a publicity stunt nothing more I don't even have to try to debate the science or the writing style of the papers this way.

Daniel is probably Wilcox for all we will ever know!
I take anything involving Wilcox with a grain of salt.

People you can debate the science or the style of writing but its really about selling a new show a SciFi fictional show imo although there may be grains of truth sown into it. It is what it is.

Have a nice day!!!

posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 08:00 AM

Originally posted by knowledgedesired
I think time travel is a Big Myth and is not possible.

The creator wants us to have free will and advancing in time to alter events would disrupt free will and distort events.

It makes no sense to me whatsover that you could travel to a period in time before it actually happens.

My two cents...

With all due respect you claim "time travel is a Big Myth", yet you start talking about "The creator" right after.

At this point no one can prove either.


edit on 9-11-2012 by Realtruth because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 08:59 AM

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

Originally posted by Blarneystoner object's mass increases as it accelerates. As it approaches the speed of light, it's mass becomes infinite and therefore impossible to provide enough fuel for such a propulsion system.

Yes I think we are all aware of that little fact.

Apparently not.... because you keep calling it a propulsion drive.

These papers don't attempt to explain the mechanism behind FTL travel, only the implications and result of FTL travel. There may be loop holes around that problem anyway, such as a propulsion drive which warps space to gain spacial thrust, or a mechanism which could potentially reduce the mass of an object to the mass of a photon.
edit on 8/11/2012 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)

blah, blah, blah.....

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