Discussing the recently appeared science underground papers of "Daniel"

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posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by chr0naut
 




References to the Philadelphia Experiment (admitted to be fiction by it's creator on his deathbed).


Someone suggested watching this video about the Montauk Project to me. Is the creator of the Philadelphia Experiment you are talking about Presten B. Nichols? I think it is him talking mostly in this first 10-min-video. Duncan Cameron, supposedely having been on the ship during the Philadelphia experiment, sits next to him.



Are these two guys simply making up that story, flat-out lying or plainly fantasizing into the camera? A psychological face and body language reading could be interesting.




posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by consolution

...

Are these two guys simply making up that story, flat-out lying or plainly fantasizing into the camera? A psychological face and body language reading could be interesting.



All three.

They have come up wiith an incredibly imaginative story, but this is an example of the sort of reality twisting you have to accept to believe them...


In 1988 , an elderly man named Alfred (Al) Bielek began giving interviews and lectures about his involvement in the Philadelphia Experiment. Or rather, the involvement of a Navy sailor named Edward Cameron. As Bielek has explained it, the U.S. government used alien technology to age-regress Cameron back to infancy, then placed him with the Bielek family of New York.
Whatever the hell was going on, Bielek was consciously unaware of his previous existence until January of 1988, when memories of his life came back to him during a late night showing of the movie The Philadelphia Experiment. He realized that as Edward Cameron, he had been on board the USS Eldridge with his brother Duncan when it dematerialized in 1943, and was transported into the distant future.

Al Bielek was "born" in 1927 (according to the forged birth certificate provided to him) and became an electronics engineer in California and Arizona, working for various military contractors. His first unusual life experience came in 1956, when he encountered a man he now identifies as Mark Hamill. The actor would have been about 5 years old at this point, but apparently this was a future Mark Hamill who was dropping in on 1956 for some reason.
...
The Cameron Boys Throughout the '70s and most of the '80s, Duncan Cameron and Al Bielek worked together at Montauk without realizing they had once been half-brothers, or that they had taken part in the Philadelphia Experiment (though Bielek admitted to a fascination with it). Bielek had no inkling that he had been age-regressed and adopted; Cameron had no clue that he was the reincarnation of his own dead brother, also named Duncan, born in Germany in 1917. Cameron says that in 1963, his soul was transplanted into the body it now occupies (which belonged to a child born to his parents in 1951). This "explains" why he is technically far too young to have served on the Eldridge during WWII. I wonder what happened to the soul of the child Duncan Cameron? That part hasn't been explained. Not that the explanation would make much sense.
...
By 1947 the Navy apparently had no further use for Edward Cameron. Von Neumann ordered that he be age-regressed to the age of one and placed in the care of Albertina and Arthur Bielek of New York in the year 1928. Meanwhile, Duncan Cameron had returned to the year 1983. The loss of his time lock caused him to age and die within days, despite the Navy's best efforts to save him. It was up to Al Bielek to convince "his" aging parents to have another child so that Duncan's soul, stored in a Navy facility, could be transplanted into the child. The new Duncan Cameron was born in 1951. In 1963, the old Duncan's soul was placed in the new Duncan's body. Both Cameron brothers lived out their new lives without any conscious awareness of their previous existence. Then, in 1988, the memories of Edward Cameron surfaced in Al Bielek's mind as he watched The Philadelphia Experiment on HBO.


(From the links on previous page.)
edit on 18-11-2012 by delusion because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 04:14 PM
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That's a lot of assumption for stuff you (and I) don't really know. A LOT of assumption.


Anyway, Daniel put out another one, take a peek.



posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by fourthmeal
 




Anyway, Daniel put out another one, take a peek.


Thanks, just found it myself. Here is the link to www.ascenionwithearth.com and this is the download link.

Here is a little appetizer:



The Cosmic Sector

Because of the reciprocal relation between space and time as motion, everything that we see in space has its temporal equivalent. If one were to move their consciousness out of the material, spatial sector and in to the cosmic, temporal sector, everything would appear inside-out.

However, if you were born in the realm of 3D time, you would claim that folks living here in the material sector had everything inside-out, upside-down and backwards, because your consciousness would be adjusted to viewing time as locations, and space as force fields. It is all a matter of perspective.


and this




Extra-Dimensional Entities

Now we have the basics to understand extra-dimensional entities, the majority of which are entities with a presence in 3D time. This includes entities that are native born in the cosmic sector that have learned to access space, and entities in the material sector to have obtained conscious access to the realm of 3D time.

Consider a cosmic creature, a native-born temporal entity that has their physical structure in time, and therefore can only interact with 3D space as force —they are invisible to our normal, waking consciousness, yet since time changes space, we can still bump into things that aren’t there and they can make things fly around the room without any observable cause. Ghosts, poltergeist and the like are all entities of this nature—entities with a structure in 3D time. And yes, we appear as ghosts to thecosmic life in 3D time, as we cross the barrier in the other direction!

Two other situations arise for extra-dimensional life, where an entity begins to consciously interact with the spirit complex, going “beyond space and time.” When material sector life develops sufficient intelligence, that intelligence provides the modus operandi for free will to follow the silver cord across into the dimensions of equivalent space —the temporal dimensions. Use your mind to open thedoor to time .

When someone here in the material sector begins to access the temporal dimensions, we call it ascension . When a cosmic entity, living in 3D time, performs a similar growth of consciousness, then they are actually accessing their equivalent time dimensions giving them access to the 3D spatial dimensions. These cosmic entities that are crossing over from the 3D time to 3D space are the ones werefer to as ascended masters, angelic beings or advanced spirits.


I know - we are are still discussing if any credibility can be given to the author and the events and theories he mentions. I am nevertheless impressed and thankful for the new rooms of thought that he opens up.



posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 05:51 PM
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Originally posted by fourthmeal
That's a lot of assumption for stuff you (and I) don't really know. A LOT of assumption.


Anyway, Daniel put out another one, take a peek.

Assumption? Did you even look at the information that debunks the story that these guys made up?

When it was found out that he had held a job in California he offered this as an explanation:


Bielek admits he was working a day job in California for the duration of the Montauk Project. Lucky for him he had special access to every commuter's wet dream, a secret high-speed underground magnetic levitation train!


There are other and even more retarded explanations that they offered when their story started to unravel.



posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by fourthmeal
That's a lot of assumption for stuff you (and I) don't really know. A LOT of assumption.


It is, but that's okay, I'm fine with that amount of assumption in this case.


I wonder if anyone could create a computer simulated universe using his ideas as the underlying laws? That would be a fun way to test them.



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 09:20 AM
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reply to post by daskakik
 


Again, a passed away family member of mine has explained to me (what he could) of what he saw and experienced, and heard from other members of the Air Force. From what information corroborated between "Daniel" and my personal source, I believe "Daniel" to be telling the truth, at least as much as he knows. Certainly perspective / POV observations and opinions exist here but the gritty details match up.



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 09:54 AM
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In all these extraordinary claims by people on the internet, there is NEVER smoking gun proof of what they say that they did, they saw, etc, etc. So everyone has to make up his or her own mind. And that's why we have forums like ATS to debate the issues raised by these so-called "insiders" and others claiming some kind of deep knowledge or insight.

On the other hand, if you are tired of red herrings, bogus whistleblowers out to make a fast buck and Pied Pipers leading you on fruitless chases that lead nowhere, study the work presented here by someone who says nothing about himself because he is content to let the mathematical proof in his astounding research speak for itself:
smphillips.8m.com...

The only issue is: are you up to being able to understand it all?



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by micpsi
In all these extraordinary claims by people on the internet, there is NEVER smoking gun proof of what they say that they did, they saw, etc, etc. So everyone has to make up his or her own mind. And that's why we have forums like ATS to debate the issues raised by these so-called "insiders" and others claiming some kind of deep knowledge or insight.

On the other hand, if you are tired of red herrings, bogus whistleblowers out to make a fast buck and Pied Pipers leading you on fruitless chases that lead nowhere, study the work presented here by someone who says nothing about himself because he is content to let the mathematical proof in his astounding research speak for itself:
smphillips.8m.com...

The only issue is: are you up to being able to understand it all?


I'll dig in with full force. My recommendation is to look up Kozyrev, he had a similar "let my research prove my point an purpose" view.



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by fourthmeal
 

Care to share what he shared with you because so far all you have mentioned is "compartmentalization", which is hardly proof of anything. All types of organized groups (terrorist, intelligence and criminal type) have been known to used compartmentalization to keep things secret.

I'm sure the government has carried out secret projects but the crap that the Montauk group has made up isn't one of them and if "Daniel" claims to have worked with them then he is as full of crap as they are and unless someone can actually come up with a working repeatable experiment everything is just a crackpot theory.

edit on 20-11-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by fourthmeal
 

Care to share what he shared with you because so far all you have mentioned is "compartmentalization", which is hardly proof of anything. All types of organized groups (terrorist, intelligence and criminal type) have been known to used compartmentalization to keep things secret.

I'm sure the government has carried out secret projects but the crap that the Montauk group has made up isn't one of them and if "Daniel" claims to have worked with them then he is as full of crap as they are and unless someone can actually come up with a working repeatable experiment everything is just a crackpot theory.

edit on 20-11-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)


What gives you the cred to say that Montauk was fake? I've seen the argument, I consider it invalid.

I don't think we want another working experiment of Montauk. IF true, there have been enough temporal issues created on that project alone to last us a while. Some things are better off left to the past.

What I CAN say is that indeed craft do exist, that they were taken apart and reverse engineered bit by bit, and that our M.I.C. did what they could to use the parts off them and make their own, with technology that is STILL way ahead of our time as we have it today. This part and the existence of ET's in general (though not as portrayed in movies), which is all that my source was open to say. I explained it was all compartmentalized so you could understand that very few observers (like my source) could make out the big picture. Just working in a room and seeing something happen in another, and then told "nothing happened" and that was that. This is compartmentalization, nobody has the big picture or evidence of it, so all we have is fragments from different points of view.

Make sense?



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by fourthmeal
What gives you the cred to say that Montauk was fake? I've seen the argument, I consider it invalid.

Common sense and the understanding that for some reason hoaxers feel the need and have been caught making things up, for whatever reason. Occam's razor should always be applied.

ETA: Sorry I don't really know if Montauk or something like it happened or not but Bielik, Nichols and Cameron having been part of it has been proven to be false and if Daniel claims to have worked with them then, he more than likely, is full of it as well.


I don't think we want another working experiment of Montauk. IF true, there have been enough temporal issues created on that project alone to last us a while. Some things are better off left to the past.

That is over-dramatic. Daniel is saying that this is the science behind everything so it should also apply to science fair project experiments. You don't need to tear apart space-time to prove that RS explains the double-slit experiment or others on that level and/or below. There is no reason why working repeatable experiments can't be carried out, until then it's nothing more than a hypothesis.


What I CAN say is that indeed craft do exist, that they were taken apart and reverse engineered bit by bit, and that our M.I.C. did what they could to use the parts off them and make their own, with technology that is STILL way ahead of our time as we have it today. This part and the existence of ET's in general (though not as portrayed in movies), which is all that my source was open to say. I explained it was all compartmentalized so you could understand that very few observers (like my source) could make out the big picture. Just working in a room and seeing something happen in another, and then told "nothing happened" and that was that. This is compartmentalization, nobody has the big picture or evidence of it, so all we have is fragments from different points of view.

Make sense?

Yes and no. There are secrets. As part of the tinfoil hat brigade it is a given but that doesn't mean that the big picture that Daniel claims to have seen isn't a hoax or at least mistaken. Your assuming a whole lot by believing that this guy was even really there, that the stories that he is stitching together really happened and even if there is some truth, that he is stitching it together correctly.

edit on 20-11-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 04:26 PM
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You realize that by calling a group of people "tinfoil hat brigade" you are labeling them, grouping them by a form of identity, so that you (the opposite group) can feel superior. This is Ego working and working hard. In reality these people are no different from you, not one bit (where it counts.) Some individuals are gullible. Some individuals have arrived at the esoteric end of things because standard answers do not cut it. And it goes on, as each of us takes a path.

It is not for YOU to call out others with a generalization, a demeaning one at that. Be the bigger man and step above this Egotistic nature. Maybe others will join in and return the favor.

BTW, Daniel never said he saw the big picture. He said he too was compartmentalized, but he grouped up with others and they formed a big picture. For my source's sake, he did not do this with others. He remained quiet all the way through his military career (which likely blossomed because of his ability to stay quiet, I imagine.) With what he saw and heard, he kept it all the way to old age, almost to his grave. It was explained to me by him that I was seeking answers so he wanted to give them to me, from at least his point of view.

Now related to my source vs. what Daniel put out there, all I have been saying is that for the parts that my source has told me, Daniel's info lines up. The rest is unknown to me, and may be true or may not be. That may be deliberate or it could be more of a perspective / opinion thing. Time will tell if Daniel and indeed all the "New Agers" are correct or not. Not a lot of time, either.
edit on 20-11-2012 by fourthmeal because: added a word



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by fourthmeal
You realize that by calling a group of people "tinfoil hat brigade" you are labeling them, grouping them by a form of identity, so that you (the opposite group) can feel superior.

Actually I'm included in that group so your point is invalid.


BTW, Daniel never said he saw the big picture. He said he too was compartmentalized, but he grouped up with others and they formed a big picture.

Doesn't change the fact that he claims to have worked with people who have been proven to not have participated in these projects.


For my source's sake, he did not do this with others. He remained quiet all the way through his military career (which likely blossomed because of his ability to stay quiet, I imagine.) With what he saw and heard, he kept it all the way to old age, almost to his grave. It was explained to me by him that I was seeking answers so he wanted to give them to me, from at least his point of view.

I'm not doubting your sources word. I'm just saying that the existence of secret projects does not automatically mean that everyone claiming to have worked on them is legit.


Now related to my source vs. what Daniel put out there, all I have been saying is that for the parts that my source has told me, Daniel's info lines up. The rest is unknown to me, and may be true or may not be. That may be deliberate or it could be more of a perspective / opinion thing. Time will tell if Daniel and indeed all the "New Agers" are correct or not. Not a lot of time, either.

Your not sharing what those parts divulged by your source are. I'd rather read about that than these articles that Daniel is putting out.

Also most of the information that Daniel is putting out there lines up because it is not new.
edit on 20-11-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 04:44 PM
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Whether you label yourself, or label others a name, it does not matter. Think about it, does a group really serve to identify who you really are? Of course not. You are an individual with your own unique thoughts.

Now, regarding my source, I just explained that. My quote a few posts above:


What I CAN say is that indeed craft do exist, that they were taken apart and reverse engineered bit by bit, and that our M.I.C. did what they could to use the parts off them and make their own, with technology that is STILL way ahead of our time as we have it today. This part and the existence of ET's in general (though not as portrayed in movies), which is all that my source was open to say.



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by fourthmeal
Whether you label yourself, or label others a name, it does not matter. Think about it, does a group really serve to identify who you really are? Of course not. You are an individual with your own unique thoughts.

It does identify a facet of who I am.


Now, regarding my source, I just explained that. My quote a few posts above:

What I CAN say is that indeed craft do exist, that they were taken apart and reverse engineered bit by bit, and that our M.I.C. did what they could to use the parts off them and make their own, with technology that is STILL way ahead of our time as we have it today. This part and the existence of ET's in general (though not as portrayed in movies), which is all that my source was open to say.

That's it? That is so general that any theory involving "compartmentalization" and "ETs" would line up.

edit on 20-11-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by daskakik
 


My source did not go into gritty details about his time serving, on every thing. He understood that I was a seeker, and concepts like actual other human-like entities living on this planet would not freak me out, and so he told me the truth that they exist, but like I said before he said it really isn't like the movies portray (and this would be movies at the time, like Aliens, Predator, etc. He said he didn't get to interact with them directly so he couldn't comment on mannerisms, communication methods, or any details such as this. But he did witness their existence. He also dealt with technology from their ships, whether or not the Montauk chair came from one is unknown.

I guess what I'm saying is, he confirmed for me before he passed away that we are not alone, that beings are with us here now, and that we have reverse-engineered their tech to our benefit.

So when other "insiders" perhaps more directly involved with these projects speak about the things my source did, I perk up because I know those to be true. The rest is details, and that's where the lies / deception could come in. Which is why I said before that I am really only paying attention to the information that is corroborating directly anyway.

Here's where the known information above combines with the assumptions I've made based on those known bits and observations I've made just by being aware of basic things around me:

When you consider that I *know* that ET beings and their craft exist, we must also assume that FTL travel exists. Since current mainstream science as known today cannot account for FTL travel or explain it, I have to look elsewhere. I also tend to believe that things are fractal in nature, and intrinsically simple by design. I believe that the source field of the creator permeates all things in a beautiful natural way, and there is NO coincidence that a hurricane looks like a galaxy, and no coincidence that the phi spiral and golden ratios and means permeate all of nature as a whole. This leads me on a somewhat esoteric path, as many on ATS are as well, but in different directions.

Is Daniel full of BS? This gets back to the whole "resonation" thing. It rings true, or at least the parts I understand which admittedly I get lost in some of the concepts. No way it could all be true because nobody ever has the whole picture, but so far I haven't run across anything that screams B.S. to me.

Example of something that does, there's a Mayan elder type guy on youtube talking about how Mayan temples are particle accelerators and he goes on and on. It sounds like pure B.S., unadulterated. It rings false, and even makes me a little nauseous to listen to though his translator is a hot tall lady so I'm at odds.



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by fourthmeal
reply to post by daskakik
 

He also dealt with technology from their ships, whether or not the Montauk chair came from one is unknown.

I guess what I'm saying is, he confirmed for me before he passed away that we are not alone, that beings are with us here now, and that we have reverse-engineered their tech to our benefit.

Any details as to the tech?


So when other "insiders" perhaps more directly involved with these projects speak about the things my source did, I perk up because I know those to be true. The rest is details, and that's where the lies / deception could come in. Which is why I said before that I am really only paying attention to the information that is corroborating directly anyway.

Alright, but that basic info (probably the part that resonates with you) exists and has existed for some time outside of these papers.


When you consider that I *know* that ET beings and their craft exist, we must also assume that FTL travel exists. Since current mainstream science as known today cannot account for FTL travel or explain it, I have to look elsewhere.

Nothing wrong with that and RS might be the ticket but then again, maybe not.


Is Daniel full of BS? This gets back to the whole "resonation" thing. It rings true, or at least the parts I understand which admittedly I get lost in some of the concepts. No way it could all be true because nobody ever has the whole picture, but so far I haven't run across anything that screams B.S. to me.

Claiming to have worked under someone who lied about participating in a secret government project isn't BS?

I understand the resonating thing. All I am saying is that this is no "insider". This is someone connecting dots from information he found on the net.



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 07:43 PM
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Hey Everybody,

I justed wanted to let you know that I am really busy right now. I am reading this thread every day and enjoy the interesting dialog.

I hope I will soon be able to participate more and post quotes from other areas of Daniel's papers that are worth to be looked upon.


edit on 22-11-2012 by consolution because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 06:29 AM
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reply to post by signalfire
 


believe me, this is worth reading, THe extended info on FTL is very enlightening, it is not written like a childs work, its very informative and can lead you to research elsewhere. if your discussing how atoms react when travleling FTL you are very likely to have been involved in such a project. laymen tend to think ftl is just a case of going faster than you were before, there is a lot more to it than that. I had joined ATS to post theese srticles but wasnt allowed in the intro section (whoops, sorry
) all i will say is that te stargate series of tv shows was endorsed by us military organisations including DOD. they wouldnt need more than one man to tell them how military operates and how to organise men in a AA battery. in fact you can find that out just by looking at google. if you are to belive the show, there are three types of FTL: actual travel ie seed ship from stargate universe
wormhole : orion & daedalus ships from stargate atlantis and the stargate itself. and the third type which isnt actually done in stargate but mentioned, which is actual FTL with time dilation. above the speed of light time will start to stretch and you think a few hours have passed when in actuality (depending on your speed) years are passing. in fact now i think about this, it was a part of atlantis when they found ancients on thier way home from a 10,000 yr journey that only took them two years.

I would verify theese but would probably get into trouble.

the info on DNA is very good too, but i lack a way of making sure everything in it is true. im sorry but i just dont have access to the people involved with that one.

Independant companies are allready playing with FTL, if you look hard enough you will find them. it wouldnt surprise me that the military-affiliated companies are allready running FTL shuttle routes. I would advise not trying to find out too much info on this with private companies, your likely to get yourself killed.





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