Is HAARP feeding SANDY? (The Conspiracy Side)

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posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 07:32 PM
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Anyone else want to reply to the questions I posed in my earlier post? I did not direct them at Phage I was hoping that other posters might want to engage in question answering and possible discussion.

Much Peace...




posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by Amanda5
 



Anyone else want to reply to the questions I posed in my earlier post?

Yes.



1. If HAARP is merely government science technology - why don't taxpayers know about it - why aren't Students being educated and informed of HAARP technology at school?

Apparently many taxpayers do know about HAARP. Google HAARP and you'll probably find more than 1 page of results. Why aren't teachers informing students of HAARP technology at school? Aren't you a teacher?



2. If HAARP isn't being utilised as weather control/modification then what is its actual purpose?

As far as I can tell it's for Ionospheric research. I've heard many things over the years that now seem to be "Conspiranoia". Maybe that's just me.



3. Without detailing the science in explicit form - what is HAARP doing?

Looks like it transmits "frequencies".



4. If the cabal/illuminati/whatever or government bodies who use taxpayers money to build technology such as HAARP cannot be transparent - why bother?

Have you E-mailed them to ask?



5. If HAARP is not controlling or modifying weather and is purely a government technology for the use of government scientists - why isn't it on the mainstream news - front and centre - for everyone to see and know?

You weren't riveted to the broadcast? Maybe you can show this to your class.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by wujotvowujotvowujotvo

The claim was from Eastlund's 2005 Penn State Lehigh lecture and a 2008 conference paper, and was about gravity waves.

To meteorology/weather, gravity waves are important.


Just calibrating here...you do know that in this context "gravity wave" doesn't mean a wave of gravitic force in the same sense as "radio wave", but means more like "a wave of matter at an interface that is primarily driven by gravity as the restoring force", such as an ocean wave, right?



According to Earl Everett Gossard already in a 50 year old 1962 paper, 3.6 Megawatts CW power, vertical flux above 80 km altitude of 2.1 x 10^-3 watts/cm^2, over a circle of radius about 30 km already show gravity wave effect.


Have you actually...read that paper? There's no mention in it of that. The paper's about ionospheric irregularities that are believed to be caused by strong tropospheric updrafts, like strong winds running up the face of a mountain range and causing a "fountain" of spot high pressure, that perturbs the ionosphere above it. Reading it, I can't see any relation whatever with what you're talking about. I suspect you have been fed a false description of the contents and didn't pop the 25 bucks. I, on the other hand, have a subscription through work.



And the dug up from Phage - first paper ever to research gravity waves from HAARP has confirmed what was predicted.


And again, if you read the fulltext, you'll find that, as I would have told you in plainer form had you asked, it's obvious that an ionospheric heater does this, and by "this" I mean causes displacement waves in the F2 region. It doesn't affect the troposphere though.

Here's the deal. When you're doing pulse modulation of the electrojet with the array, you are actually thinning out spots in the ionosphere, causing the jet to veer around the thinner areas. The implication of reducing the density in spots by heating is that you *have* to be pushing the ionosphere around physically, if only on a tiny scale.

It's relatively easy to do this, because the ionosphere's pretty much a vacuum. You don't have to do a lot of power delivery.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by Amanda5
Commented many pages back - have been visiting to read some of the many posts arguing the science and philosophy of HAARP. I believe that HAARP is a technology that is basically working in untested scientific ground.


Right! It's a research instrument. The whole point is to verify scientific conjecture.



I have a few questions for the posters who are arguing that HAARP is not an element involved with Sandy or indeed any weather control/modification.


My pleasure.



1. If HAARP is merely government science technology - why don't taxpayers know about it - why aren't Students being educated and informed of HAARP technology at school?


They DO know about it. You can find anything you want to know about the civilian research aspects in the literature. I like Geophysical Research Letters, it has most of the HAARP papers, although you can find a smattering of it in other pubs as well.

The problem is...it's really really TECHNICAL. Ionospheric science is fraught with fairly stiff calculus and oddball references that'll send you on week-long learning binges just to interpret the papers. And you also have to have a strong understanding of general physics, and radio. These guys are all eggheads. It's damn near impossible to follow it. That leaves a vacuum that nards like Begich leap in to fill.

Plus, if you happen to be in the area, you can go for a visit. If you understand what you see, it tells you a lot of what you need to know. Heck, some of the researchers will even give you their raw data, if you can substantiate your need and ability to interpret it.



2. If HAARP isn't being utilised as weather control/modification then what is its actual purpose?


To study the ionosphere. That's pretty straightforward. Read the papers, you'll see.



3. Without detailing the science in explicit form - what is HAARP doing?


Mostly, heating the ionosphere. There is a lot more to it - the implications and side effects are wide ranging.



4. If the cabal/illuminati/whatever or government bodies who use taxpayers money to build technology such as HAARP cannot be transparent - why bother?


Well, to the extent they can be, they ARE transparent. Except the science it's developing is something like the IRS tax codes, or contract law. It's not for the faint of heart.



5. If HAARP is not controlling or modifying weather and is purely a government technology for the use of government scientists - why isn't it on the mainstream news - front and centre - for everyone to see and know?


It is. It would be *wonderful* if mainstream news actually gave a crap about basic research in advanced studies. But 99% of the time, the MSM can't get even basic, piddly bits of science or technology right. People care about Snooki, Jackass and "Dancing with the Stars", but being able to do a triple integral is not valued.

Ionospheric plasma research is not romantic or entertaining, unless you're really warped. However, I'm just that sort of person.


Ok...what you're actually asking is, I suspect, what skulduggery actually goes on at Gakona? What secret things go on? What is the government realllly doing?

Hm. Well, that's an interesting question, and one I won't answer specifically for various reasons.

Primarily, HAARP is used for civilian research. It is true that it was built and is managed by the Air Force and Navy. They get the data too, and the results of the research. So, if there's any of that that's interesting to them on the grounds of possible military applications, there you go.

Some of the researchers operate in happy naivete, and I've had some online conversations with them wherein a lot of them suddenly "got" the sort of things that were going on around them they were oblivious to. So, is there research that goes on that you DON'T see? Of course. Duh. It's not all UofA projects.

Is it weather manipulation? No. Mostly what comes out of there relates to C3I. Some of it relates to imaging. Other bits relate to defense against...um...things that perturb the ionosphere in bad ways. Some time back, a general who was familiar with the project blew a classified research project out of Gakona on a TV interview, relating to cleaning high speed electrons out of the inner magnetosphere after an exoatmospheric nuclear strike - an EMP blast if you will - which seeds the inner magnetosphere with energetic electrons after the blast. The high speed electrons strike satellites, and each one emits x-rays when that happens. These damage electronics and are the primary reason that satellites will fail after a HAND. The HAARP facility can clean these out of the magnetosphere, although that task has moved onto another facility. A lot of the things the military is interested in are hard to explain in non-technical terms.
edit on 2-11-2012 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 04:41 AM
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Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
reply to post by Phage
 


....

You have to remember... a hurricane is not an apple, or a stone....

It is a incredibly complex thermodynamic feedback engine of water vapor based thermal transfer to the tropopause.


I enjoyed the science lesson. Some interesting fundamentals lucidly given.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 05:05 AM
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Originally posted by SpittinTruth
....

Also...i can't believe Phage is still arguing this thing? The ONLY WAY...someone could spend that much time, on a topic...is if they're getting PAID! I really didn't think my post would generate 500 comments. I was only asking a question. hahahahahahaha
to which i already knew the answer to!


And to think....this was only my SECOND thread, on ATS. Here's my 3rd:
Devastating Photos (Sandy's Path)

I can't believe this one made it to the ATS front page. That was exciting.
Wait til my next one...which is coming SOON!


Wow. The lack of self-awarenes is frightening.
Perhaps it's gone on so long because you cannot properly justify your OP. If it was obvious and convincing, people would be convinced.
But good conversation and info buried within, so you did good dude after all!



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 05:07 AM
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Originally posted by Bedlam

Electron temperature is a measure of how much kinetic energy the free electrons have in the ionosphere. Temperature and particle velocity are directly related. A lot of things raise electron temperature in the ionosphere - but mainly it's the Sun. Electron temperatures vary all over the place depending on things like the latitude, solar activity, whether you're on the day or night side, the electrojet status, hell even if there's been a gamma ray burst nearby. You get temps from maybe 2000 to 10000K, depending on these things. There's a HUGE range naturally. A few hundred degrees isn't a lot.


Wow, good explanation, thanks.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 05:19 AM
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Originally posted by Amanda5
...
I have a few questions for the posters who are arguing that HAARP is not an element involved with Sandy or indeed any weather control/modification.

1. If HAARP ...

....

I have conducted my research and have formed my opinion and am interested to see whether the above questions can be answered succinctly - in a form that can be understood by everyone - at every literacy level - who will read this post.

Much Peace...



Those are all indeed fair questions and you are right to ask them.
I do believe they have been answered now. Now you have been informed of the truth and have accepted the veracity of the answers, welcome to Reality! You made it!!

Edit ...
*facepalm*
Just read your response to Phage.
...
I....
...
*walks off, shaking head and grumbling incoherently to himself*
edit on 2-11-2012 by delusion because: because WTF?



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 07:06 AM
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Originally posted by SpittinTruth

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by SpittinTruth
 

Yes. The con-man Nick Begich talking about the patent we talked about earlier. The one which describes a system 1,000 times more powerful than HAARP.

Riiiiight! And our government is always on the up and up.
They would never con, lie, or manipulate us.
They would never put us in harms way.

Ok then, how about this lady? She seems to know a heck of a lot about this.Weather Anomalies and Field Affects


How about Prof Steven E Jones, physics is his background claimed 9/11 was done with explosives so both can't be right! So WHO is right Judy or him, I would say none after all he claimed Jesus had visited the USA both are as mad as a box of frogs!



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by AndyMayhew
No-one has yet answered the obvious question of why anyone would want to spend so much time, money and energy in steering a hurricane...


Power, money, & control.

There is a group of sick SOBs who would use such human suffering for financial or political gain.

They like to think they are "elite" because they were born into a family with a lot of money.

That it would have gone where it did on it's own is the whole subject of this conspiracy thread...



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by pianopraze
 


Why are you ignoring that Eastland's patent is vastly larger than the current HAARP design?

That's like saying a 3 megawatt power station can do the same thing as a 50 megawatt power station.

Doesn't make sense!

You also still haven't shown Tesla's link to all this.

And also, why wasn't Eastlund involved in building HAARP?

He left APTI and started his own company, Eastlund Scientific Enterprises Corporation before the HAARP project started.


Eastlund's pattern was only part of HAARP, and it references Tesla in the patent; asked/answered. He wasn't involved because the building was done by others who bought his pattent, it has been through several hands including Raytheon (huge defense contracter) and run by SRI/Navy/Air Force and more directly and indirectly.

Also, scales of eficiency have improved thousands of fold since Eastlund's patent. We can do much more with much less. Why obfuscate so? (rhetorical). Funny thing about throwing money at technology, they make it better and more efficient.

Besides there are a lot more HAARPS than the one in Alaska:

Related facilities

In America, there are two related ionospheric heating facilities: the HIPAS, near Fairbanks, Alaska, which was dismantled in 2009, and (currently offline for reconstruction) one at the Arecibo Observatory[14] in Puerto Rico. The European Incoherent Scatter Scientific Association (EISCAT) operates an ionospheric heating facility, capable of transmitting over 1 GW effective radiated power (ERP), near Tromsø, Norway.[15] Russia has the Sura Ionospheric Heating Facility, in Vasilsursk near Nizhniy Novgorod, capable of transmitting 190 MW ERP.

WIKI

ETA... I believe China and Russia has one also.

And how many others that are not admitted to by the spaghetti agencies?

This is Black technology run by black agencies... but all roads lead to SRI...
edit on 2-11-2012 by pianopraze because: eta



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by pianopraze
 


Also, scales of eficiency have improved thousands of fold since Eastlund's patent.
Really? Thousands of fold? Can you provide examples?


We can do much more with much less.
No. It takes a certain amount of transmitter power to create a given amount of ionospheric heating.


Besides there are a lot more HAARPS than the one in Alaska:

No. Just one HAARP. But there are other ionospheric heaters. As your link points out HIPAS is gone. Arecibo has a tiny heater; 3 antennas that can put out a total of 300KW.


And how many others that are not admitted to by the spaghetti agencies?
I give up. How many?
edit on 11/2/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by pianopraze
Eastlund's pattern was only part of HAARP, and it references Tesla in the patent; asked/answered.


And...you HAVE seen what that reference was, right? Tell me you read it.



He wasn't involved because the building was done by others who bought his pattent...


You do know that Eastlund's patent refers to microwaves, and that HAARP does not broadcast microwaves at all?



Also, scales of eficiency have improved thousands of fold since Eastlund's patent.


Power on target is power on target. Efficiency means you waste less in the machinery. The sorts of things Eastlund envisions require MUCH more power on target.




Besides there are a lot more HAARPS than the one in Alaska:


Actually, there's only one HAARP, although there are a number of ionospheric heaters. HIPAS has been closed for two years.

Oh, and ERP isn't output power, BTW.



This is Black technology run by black agencies... but all roads lead to SRI...


Not at all, either statement.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by pianopraze

Originally posted by AndyMayhew
No-one has yet answered the obvious question of why anyone would want to spend so much time, money and energy in steering a hurricane...


Power, money, & control.

There is a group of sick SOBs who would use such human suffering for financial or political gain.

They like to think they are "elite" because they were born into a family with a lot of money.

That it would have gone where it did on it's own is the whole subject of this conspiracy thread...


Opportunism, and manipulating things to increase your gain is part of the human logic-set and always will be, equally tempered and opposed by altruistic tendencies, there will always be a balance between self-interest and altruism, and in the end altruism is also self-interest (the health of the whole increases the health of the individual).

But manipulating things on this scale to cause major death destruction and disruption, just in order to increase control and to profiteer? That's cartoon-level villiany, and just does not exist. People born into power or privilege are still human beings, not psycopathic monsters.
The idea of the 'elite' is really just a resentful fantasy.

Given access to technology that does allow for this - maybe it could happen.
When people are so far removed from the chain of events that they don't see the suffering they are causing, their indifference increases (like drone warfare - machine gunning people to head-exploding death from a control panel on the other side of the world). But close that gap, make the effort to understand the humanity shared underneath, and they would quickly realise the suffering and react with empathy as anyone would.
But to do stuff on such a large scale, they wouldn't really be able to escape such an empathic link, the chain of events and effects would get back to them some how and touch something in their lives.
So the only way they would be able to do it is if you make them cold remorseless psychopaths, all qualities of the supposed 'elite'.
Which, in my opinion, is just a fantasy based on resentment.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by pianopraze
 


Also, scales of eficiency have improved thousands of fold since Eastlund's patent.
Really? Thousands of fold? Can you provide examples?


We can do much more with much less.
No. It takes a certain amount of transmitter power to create a given amount of ionospheric heating.


Besides there are a lot more HAARPS than the one in Alaska:

No. Just one HAARP. But there are other ionospheric heaters. As your link points out HIPAS is gone. Arecibo has a tiny heater; 3 antennas that can put out a total of 300KW.


And how many others that are not admitted to by the spaghetti agencies?
I give up. How many?
edit on 11/2/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)


Processors efficiency have emproved thousands of folds: link

Lasers: link

Your really want me to go on? You really going to question that we do much more with less?

Technology evolves continuously to become more efficient, refining to do more with less.

Here is an example where they are doing more with less on HAARP:

A more effective method of steerable ELF/VLF wave generation with continuous HF heating of the lower ionosphere

link



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by pianopraze

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by pianopraze
 


Also, scales of eficiency have improved thousands of fold since Eastlund's patent.
Really? Thousands of fold? Can you provide examples?


We can do much more with much less.
No. It takes a certain amount of transmitter power to create a given amount of ionospheric heating.


Besides there are a lot more HAARPS than the one in Alaska:

No. Just one HAARP. But there are other ionospheric heaters. As your link points out HIPAS is gone. Arecibo has a tiny heater; 3 antennas that can put out a total of 300KW.


And how many others that are not admitted to by the spaghetti agencies?
I give up. How many?
edit on 11/2/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)


Processors efficiency have emproved thousands of folds: link

Lasers: link

Your really want me to go on? You really going to question that we do much more with less?

Technology evolves continuously to become more efficient, refining to do more with less.

Here is an example where they are doing more with less on HAARP:

A more effective method of steerable ELF/VLF wave generation with continuous HF heating of the lower ionosphere

link


How does the increase in processing power on CPUs have any effect on his question about the increase of efficiency with HAARP?



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by pianopraze
Eastlund's pattern was only part of HAARP, and it references Tesla in the patent; asked/answered.


And...you HAVE seen what that reference was, right? Tell me you read it.

You do know that Eastlund's patent refers to microwaves, and that HAARP does not broadcast microwaves at all?

Hmmm...

By exploit- ing the properties of the auroral ionosphere as an ac- tive, nonlinear medium, the primary energy of the HF transmitter, which is confined in the frequency range from 2.8 to 10 MHz, can be down-converted in fre- quency to coherent low frequency waves spanning five decades, as well as up-converted to infrared and vis- ible photons.

.mil source


Microwaves are radio waves with wavelengths ranging from as long as one meter to as short as one millimetre, or equivalently, with frequencies between 300 MHz (0.3 GHz) and 300 GHz.[1][2] This broad definition includes both UHF and EHF (millimeter waves), and various sources use different boundaries.[3] In all cases, microwave includes the entire SHF band (3 to 30 GHz, or 10 to 1 cm) at minimum, with RF engineering often putting the lower boundary at 1 GHz (30 cm), and the upper around 100 GHz (3 mm).

wiki

Seems to me HAARP can do that just fine...



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by flyswatter

Originally posted by pianopraze
Here is an example where they are doing more with less on HAARP:

A more effective method of steerable ELF/VLF wave generation with continuous HF heating of the lower ionosphere

link


How does the increase in processing power on CPUs have any effect on his question about the increase of efficiency with HAARP?


Did you bother to read the HAARP example I provided before you went off half cocked?

You really going to try to argue we aren't doing much more with much less power in a broad range of technologies? You really don't see the obvious implications relating to HAARP technologies?

What took many orders of magnitude of electricity in computers when Eastlund made his patent takes a trickle of power in our computers, watches, iphones and ipads which do much more with much less... and it is only getting more and more efficient. Same with lazers, same with HAARP, same with many many technologies.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by pianopraze



And...you HAVE seen what that reference was, right? Tell me you read it.

You do know that Eastlund's patent refers to microwaves, and that HAARP does not broadcast microwaves at all?


Hmmm...



Seems to me HAARP can do that just fine...


Yes, HAARP can match the frequency - but what is it broadcasting that is matching that frequency?

Isn't it just two different things going at the same rate? They're still two different mediums.

Or is a microwave just a frequency? So anything oscillated fast enough will produce it?
edit on 2-11-2012 by delusion because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by delusion

Originally posted by pianopraze



And...you HAVE seen what that reference was, right? Tell me you read it.

You do know that Eastlund's patent refers to microwaves, and that HAARP does not broadcast microwaves at all?


Hmmm...



Seems to me HAARP can do that just fine...


Yes, HAARP can match the frequency - but what is it broadcasting that is matching that frequency?

Isn't it just two different things going at the same rate? They're still two different mediums.

Or is a microwave just a frequency? So anything oscillated fast enough will produce it?
edit on 2-11-2012 by delusion because: (no reason given)


One of the amazing things about what HAARP can do is not only broadcast it's own information, but use the ionosphere to become a directed antenta, a mirror if you will, to direct secondary sources the Navy, or others want to use...

On the low frequency end (VLF/ULF/HF), reflection of radio waves by the ionosphere allows for worldwide com- munications and Over-the-Horizon (OTH) radar op- eration. On the higher frequency end (VHF/UHF)
transionospheric propagation is a ubiquitous element of numerous civilian and military communication, sur- veillance, and remote sensing systems.


.mil link

So not only can it be use the ionosphere to convert it's own signals into other frequencies, it can become a mirror to bounce other energy sources.

So it is not limited by HAARPS power. They can bounce a much more powerful source off the mirror HAARP creates.
edit on 2-11-2012 by pianopraze because: typo





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