Is HAARP feeding SANDY? (The Conspiracy Side)

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posted on Nov, 3 2012 @ 12:43 AM
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Originally posted by Amanda5

What I find interesting is that the frequencies that are projected can just stop within a particular layer of the atmosphere. It is like suggesting that when I breathe out what I exhale will not penetrate every layer of air in front of me.


That would be because the ionosphere is conductive and the troposphere is not.



I would have thought that the frequency would just keep going unless it hit a boundary. It does not make sense to me that a frequency can only penetrate a layer of the atmosphere and just stop there - without hitting a brickwall as it were.


The ionosphere is a sort of brick wall to frequencies below around 50 MHz. The lower the frequency, the less of it will penetrate the ionosphere.



Anyone get why I don't believe that HAARP is a safe and scientifically controlled technology?


No.

Consider your microwave oven. You can see in. But the microwaves don't come out. Yet, light is a form of EM wave just as microwaves are - there is not qualitative difference, just a difference in frequency. Why can the light get out but not the microwaves? Answer - the grillwork of the door has openings of a certain size. The microwaves are larger than the openings, but the light is not. The microwaves "perceive" the grill as being a solid reflector.

Similarly, the ionosphere "looks like" a reflector to larger, lower frequency signals, but passes smaller, higher frequency ones. To the point that very little is reflected over 50MHz (hence the issue with subs carrying ionospheric arrays).
edit on 3-11-2012 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 3 2012 @ 12:51 AM
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See you guys next week, I'm off to the salt mines again in an hour. I think we get to come to town again Wednesday afternoon.



posted on Nov, 3 2012 @ 01:03 AM
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reply to post by Bedlam
 


So glad you used microwaves as an example - you could not be further from the truth. For starters read the instruction booklet that comes with a microwave - it states very clearly - DO NOT STAND IN FRONT WHILE OPERATING. Why would that be? The microwaves are coming straight at you. Also check outside where the rear of the microwave would be - many people report plants dying unable to live as a result of being in the direct path of the microwave oven - even through brick walls!!!!

A frequency of a magnetron circuit 2.4 GHz was selected as the standard frequency for the global manufacture of microwaves. This frequency was selected purely because of the convenience of manufacturing - not because it is a safe standard!!!! It is the easiest frequency that allows the molecules to vibrate. The ease of vibration at 2.4 GHz causes friction and thus the food heats quickly. A lower or higher rate of frequency would not be as efficient.

I have paraphrased and my reference is Nexus Magazine, June-July 2010 Volume 17 No.4. Look at the Letters To The Editor on page 5. Read on and you will find that there is an explanation as to why mobile phones are frying our brains and causing brain tumours.

I have never owned a microwave and when they were first manufactured I vowed I would never use one even if someone gave it to me as a gift. My intuition was correct and later confirmed by my research. I still hold my ground that HAARP is treading in untested scientific areas and is dangerous and being utilised for less than humane practices.

Much Peace...



posted on Nov, 3 2012 @ 01:18 AM
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reply to post by Bedlam
 


Yes, I read with the limited expertise I have, but if what you say is your view of it, you also seem to not understand the context and/or applicability of the unit either.

It looks like you describe the exact thing mentioned but failed to get the reference by Eastlund citing Gossard 1962, Hines 1960 and Nappo 2002.

I posted the fulltext pdf at end of pg30.

The Gossard paper uses another unit system and used "Ergs", so that is a big source of easy confusion.

What is being talked about is the energy transport by atmospheric gravity waves, in terms of vertical flux expressed in Watts/meter squared.

I can expand with the exact portions that detail those if you want.



Uploaded the fulltext of 1962 paper here, 974KB pdf

jjjtir.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/jz067i002p00745.pdf



posted on Nov, 3 2012 @ 01:19 AM
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Originally posted by Amanda5
reply to post by charlyv
 


Love your questions and answers. What I find interesting is that the frequencies that are projected can just stop within a particular layer of the atmosphere. It is like suggesting that when I breathe out what I exhale will not penetrate every layer of air in front of me.

Perhaps a better example would be to suggest that the frequencies emitted by HAARP just instinctively know when to stop and remain in a particular layer of our atmosphere. I would have thought that the frequency would just keep going unless it hit a boundary. It does not make sense to me that a frequency can only penetrate a layer of the atmosphere and just stop there - without hitting a brickwall as it were.

It is the same as the transmission of our mobile phones and television - the frequency keeps going until it hits the intended boundary/receptor. Anyone get what I am trying to describe? Anyone get why I don't believe that HAARP is a safe and scientifically controlled technology?

Much Peace...


The key is "Electromagnetic interactions only occur in the near-vacuum of the rarefied region above about 70 km known as the ionosphere."

It means that lower in the atmosphere, this technology has no effect, no matter what frequencies and power it uses.
It is WHERE the interaction can occur, not where it might be directed, if it could be directed. Try to make a neon bulb glow when the gas in it has oxygen, nitrogen and hydrogen at those pressures, plus neon... Answer: Not a gonna happen,.

Science is your friend.
edit on 3-11-2012 by charlyv because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 3 2012 @ 04:43 AM
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Originally posted by pianopraze

Originally posted by delusion
But manipulating things on this scale to cause major death destruction and disruption, just in order to increase control and to profiteer? That's cartoon-level villiany, and just does not exist.


Really?

You ever follow what say... George Sorros does?

Evil this bad does exist.


perhapse the 3 greatest accomplishments of the evil forces over the hu/ans has been this, hiding the fact that they exist in great number, and wield great power and commit un-numberable crimes. theyve distracted the humans from caring about this. and they eveb twist lies so clever, it makes their evil sound benevolent. such as geo-engineering to fight global warming and climate change.

whoever wrote that extreme evil doesnt exist, is just a typical ignorant human. they will all be squashed like the pathetic bugs they are. this hurricane is a symbol of the dooms they will continue to wreak upon us.



posted on Nov, 3 2012 @ 09:44 AM
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reply to post by Amanda5
 


You are told not to stand in front of a microwave oven if it has damage/or you suspect it has damage to the door, I have had a microwave oven for more than 25 years stood in front and been around them many times when its on NOTHING has happened.

May be you should study a bit more!


Waves in this frequency range have an interesting property: They're absorbed by water, fats and sugars. Once absorbed, they're converted directly into atomic motion -- heat. These waves boast another interesting, related property, too: They're not absorbed by most plastics, glass or ceramics. Metal reflects microwaves, which is why metal pans don't work well in a microwave oven. It's also why the devices have metal walls -- for reflection.


Metal can spark when put in a microwave oven.


Bulk metals (such as aluminum foil and solid steel) at room temperature reflect microwaves due to low penetration depth, setting up a high voltage between the metal and the magnetron. When this voltage surpasses a threshold, it discharges as a visible spark.


If people had your attitude to anything they are not sure about we would still be living in caves!



posted on Nov, 3 2012 @ 10:05 AM
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1997 New York Hurricane Sandy Drill

www.wwlp.com...

U.N. Weather Weapons Treaty, 1976

atrueott.files.wordpress.com...

Weather Modification Report, 1966

atrueott.files.wordpress.com...

KONY 2012: Knock Out New York

The obvious parallels between the novel Frankenstein and the nickname "Frankenstorm" are very interesting also.



posted on Nov, 3 2012 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by Amanda5
 





So glad you used microwaves as an example - you could not be further from the truth. For starters read the instruction booklet that comes with a microwave - it states very clearly - DO NOT STAND IN FRONT WHILE OPERATING. Why would that be? The microwaves are coming straight at you.

I don't get it . I set my coffee in front of the glass on the microwave door but it won't warm up. What's up with that?


Old or faulty door seals are the most common causes of microwave radiation leakage. Mechanical abuse, a build-up of dirt, or simple wear and tear of continued use can cause door seals to be less effective. Theoretically, there will be small amounts of leakage through the viewing glass but measurements have shown this to be insignificant.
www.ccohs.ca...


Bedlam's point was about how light could pass through the screen on the glass but the screen reflects the microwaves, not microwave oven safety issues.



posted on Nov, 3 2012 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by paradism
The obvious parallels between the novel Frankenstein and the nickname "Frankenstorm" are very interesting also.


You don't think that the proximity of Halloween and it being a 'monster' storm led to the media making up a very very obvious pun then?


Edit: not sure what parallels there are between the novel and the storm though? Are you saying the storm was innocent and unfairly demonised by ignorant New Yorkers?

Still, if NYC have held drills because it was likely that sooner or later a storm like this would hit, then it proves it much have been a deliberate manmade storm. Just as if there's a fire in a building in which they once held a fire drill it proves the Illuminati were behind it
edit on 3-11-2012 by AndyMayhew because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 3 2012 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by Bedlam
 



Your array would need to be far too large to pack around on a sub, or for that matter, an aircraft carrier. The frequency the array uses is related to the size of the individual antennas in the array.


Super-conductive antenna arrays.

Booyah.


Further, the overall size of the array compared to the frequencies you're using sets the beam size and deflection angle.


That's not really a point of argument, is it?


You can't, however, use those frequencies for ionospheric bounce. This is why HAARP has such a large antenna farm.


HAARP has a large antenna array, because it must contend with normal conductivity for it's antennas... you know, because of the cost.


How much ocean water is contributing the thermal energy to run the storm? THAT's the issue here. Not how hot the hurricane is in itself.


Whoops.... you goofed.

The storm runs on thermal energy.... the water vapor adds thermal energy to the system.

If you increase the average thermal energy of the storm, you increase its average strength.


You can't refract microwaves off the ionosphere. See also: MUF.


I clearly also said Radio waves...

I clearly also ALSO said that you might not even need the ionospheric bounce.

So... strawman.


No, no, that's not what's studied there. Whether it will refract is straightforward physics, known long before HAARP.


Are you saying that the information regarding ionospheric probing for refraction wasn't gathered by the HAARP?

That this information couldn't be used in a different emitter?

Really?


The one where the array is sized proportionally to the frequency used


Unless you use superconductive antenna elements, which would make them more compact.


A submarine doesn't have a lot of room to house 100 MW of HF transmitter, much less the antenna farm for it.


Unless it's superconductive, that is.



posted on Nov, 3 2012 @ 07:15 PM
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Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
reply to post by Bedlam
 



A submarine doesn't have a lot of room to house 100 MW of HF transmitter, much less the antenna farm for it.


Unless it's superconductive, that is.


100MW of transmitter will still consume a far greater space than what is available, regardless of how small the antenna is.

Also...Super-conducting antenna arrays work in the THz band..........Quite a "ways" from the HF bandwidth that HAARP utilises.



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 01:26 AM
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reply to post by OccamAssassin
 



100MW of transmitter will still consume a far greater space than what is available, regardless of how small the antenna is.


Would you like to explain why the signal needs modulation?


Also...Super-conducting antenna arrays work in the THz band..........Quite a "ways" from the HF bandwidth that HAARP utilises.



F = 1/(2*pi*sqrt(LC))

You want to try that again, Mr Wrong?

edit on 4-11-2012 by ErtaiNaGia because: (no reason given)
edit on 4-11-2012 by ErtaiNaGia because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 06:16 AM
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reply to post by wujotvowujotvowujotvo
 


Energy flux (vertical in this case)

-CGS unit system ergs/cm2/second

-SI unit system Watts/m2

how is Gossard 1962 not applicable?
edit on 5-11-2012 by wujotvowujotvowujotvo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 07:04 AM
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I thought since this is a discussion on ULF/ELF radio emissions, this may prove relevant.




Russia’s Institute of Solar-Terrestrial Physics located in Irkutsk reported recently that their Siberian Solar Radio Telescope (SSRT) detected a ‘massive’ ultra low frequency (ULF) ‘blast’ emanating from Latitude: 45° 00′ North Longitude: 93° 15′ West.

ULF is the frequency range between 300 Hertz and 3 kilohertz. It is often used in mine and submarines communications, as it can penetrate earth and water.

The time and location of the ULF ‘blast’ detected coincides exactly with the time and locations of the tragic collapse of a nearly 2,000 foot long the Interstate 35W Bridge in Minneapolis, Minnesota that killed at least a dozen people and seriously injured many others.


Here's the link if you're interested www.dailygalaxy.com...



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 07:39 AM
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Originally posted by mrdeadfolx
I thought since this is a discussion on ULF/ELF radio emissions, this may prove relevant.




Russia’s Institute of Solar-Terrestrial Physics located in Irkutsk reported recently that their Siberian Solar Radio Telescope (SSRT) detected a ‘massive’ ultra low frequency (ULF) ‘blast’ emanating from Latitude: 45° 00′ North Longitude: 93° 15′ West.

ULF is the frequency range between 300 Hertz and 3 kilohertz. It is often used in mine and submarines communications, as it can penetrate earth and water.

The time and location of the ULF ‘blast’ detected coincides exactly with the time and locations of the tragic collapse of a nearly 2,000 foot long the Interstate 35W Bridge in Minneapolis, Minnesota that killed at least a dozen people and seriously injured many others.


Here's the link if you're interested www.dailygalaxy.com...





According to this posting ( educate-yourself.org... ), this is a hoax and the SSRT reported no such ULF blast.


Radio telescope sorry SOLAR radio telescope why and how could it locate that signal
edit on 5-11-2012 by wmd_2008 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 08:47 AM
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I agree that super storm Sandy was a manipulated weather storm, steered from creation to precise geographical landfall on the US East coast, but I , as usual, see something all together different and because I have always shared what I see or observe, it is those observations that I will share with you today, if you will indulge me in offering you some discussion that I am hopeful you will see as important as I see it. It may be a difficult subject for some to grasp, but if thinking does not hurt your head, then you're going to love this.

Since these unusual observations help to formulate my thought process, I will admit at this juncture that it has become the basis of my thoughts surrounding super storm Sandy.

There is indeed much more to Sandy that needs public discussion and it just stuns me, that among so many conspiracy "types", no one but me I guess is aware of something much more important about Sandy is evident once you accept the weather manipulation as possible and move on to what else is there in Sandy that needs to be discussed.

I suspect the failure of so many professionals and so called expert researchers to not say anything about what I am about to tell you about Sandy, is because even they don't see it yet.

I intentional seek to inform others in other forums of conspiracy here on ATS, like 911, Flt 93, Flt 427, Shanksville, PA, HAARP, secret science types, etc. so pay close attention and become aware of what I about to share.

Now, lets discuss what is not being discussed.

First is that yes Sandy was manipulated and steered to where it was needed, but while many only focus on the election effects, Obama, FEMA, social control systems, corruption, the agony of no power, roving mobs, looting, social unrest and more, you must first go back to when Sandy hit the East Coast for in that initial impact into the NYC area, Sandy did a most unusual thing by passing over the UN Headquarters and in effect passing over the 911 Twin Towers location of Sept. 11, 2001.

Then as many media reports showed, Sandy stalls as it hits land fall. Yes, it stalls, but when it did the tracking of the storm will clearly show that the tracking to an unusual type of turn and more or less labored over the Pittsburgh, PA and that is when I saw it and thought it for the first time. Shanksville, PA.

Shanksville, PA is known for the infamous 911 flight 93 where "44" passengers died supposedly 7 crew-members, 33 passengers and four terrorist died after "Heroic passengers" rushed the terrorist and prevented flt 93 from reaching its target.

In reality, is is said by many that an air to air missile hit Flt 93 and shot it down if we can believe Rumsfeld, but while many think the Shanksville impact spot was a contrived created hole to deceive the masses, evidence will show an impact spot sold to us by govt and media as the flt 93 impact spot, with yet evidence of debris of flt 93 at another location. It is these inconsistencies in the flt 93, 911 conspiracy that many are aware of, but when Sandy stalled over this area I decided to look even further.

Because the Eye of the Storm in Sandy was so huge, it also encompassed another air crash, US-air Flt 427 that crashed due to a rudder problem and inverted and crashed head first into the ground. This incident occurred on 09-08-12 near Aliquippa, PA as it approached runway 28 at Pittsburgh International Airport.

I said to myself two air crashes very near each other, but then I found after reading many witness reports that eye witnesses in Hopewell, PA at the site of flt 427 reported seeing body parts, debris and so much blood that it shocked many and yet with flt 93 no bodies, no blood, nothing.

Then I learned that there is Hopewell, PA near site of flt 93 and I asked myself what are the odds of two separate air crashes both having a town named Hopewell nearby where witnesses in each town witness the event of each separate crash?

Flt 93 was as I indicated filled with a total of "44" passengers as in Potus 44, Obama and Sandy is being said will help Obama, but Sandy is also a distraction from the Libya-gate where Obama refused assistance after the 911 event in Benghazi where 4 died.

If Sandy was created to divert attention from Libya and help Obama then we are talking much more than weather manipulation. I suspect temporal illusions and even time manipulation because after 09-11-12 reports began about Obama and the State dept. attempting to get the Blind Shiekh, Omar Abdel-Rahman released to the Muslim Brotherhood.

This is key ,for the mastermind of the 911 event in 1993 in NYC, was the blind shiekh and it was in my opinion the last time real terrorist planned NWO false flags, but what are the odds that Libya on 091112 would begin a series of events that involve Obama, 911, Flt 93, flt 427 and the blind shiekh in a journey backwards and back again?

This is why more than just SANDY NWO weather manipulation is going on, but we must slow down to see it.

Best regards



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by MaxBlack
 


Other conspiracies aside ... the problem with your argument is that HAARP cant steer a storm, as it is not capable of interacting with the surface weather producing portions of the atmosphere. Now, if you have some evidence of them being able to create and steer a storm in another manner, by all means show us. But via HAARP? No.



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
...

Super-conductive antenna arrays.

Booyah.

...


An antenna array that is superconductive is one that has no electrical resistance (or has discrete elements with no electrical resistance).

It would be the same as an "ideal" antenna that we use when we do antenna design problems in Electronic Engineering class (i.e: undergrad stuff).

Superconductivity means R = 0 Ohms.

A dipole antenna of insufficient length is inefficient. A superconductive dipole antenna of insufficient length is similarly inefficient.

You also need some resistance across an antenna or otherwise you would be unable to get a potential difference.



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by wmd_2008
 


Ahh yes, Solar Radio Telescopes would indeed have a difficult time detecting a signal going on here
There is however other instruments at that facility that could have possibly detected some sort of signal. There is another instrument at the site called IRIS, this is a quick summary of the sort of study it performs




Areas of study

development of a method based on the research OT rapid variations of the signal structure

decameter radio wave propagation in the real Earth-ionosphere waveguide

ionosphere sounding by HP and Propagation meter range

Experimental studies of ionospheric disturbances of natural and man-made and transionospheric UHF propagation by processing data from the global network of dual-frequency receiver navigation system GPS-GLONASS.


Here's the link for that Adobe IRIS

It seems to me that this "IRIS" which stands for The Irkutsk Radar of Incoherent Scatter, was specifically designed to detect ULF/ELF radio emission worldwide, I would certainly like to see that equipment, sounds fascinating.
edit on 5-11-2012 by mrdeadfolx because: (no reason given)





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