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Is HAARP feeding SANDY? (The Conspiracy Side)

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posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by SpittinTruth
 

Yeah. It was big. Hurricanes are big.
So was Igor


So was Gilbert


So was Camille




posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by SpittinTruth
 


I can tell you that I was somewhat on board with your haarp thing.

But now you have gone to far with the towers.

Please educate yourself on buildings, construction of buildings, gravity and weight, and of course momentum.

Scaler weapons was not needed to bring down the towers. They were heavy objects standing a quarter of a mile in the air. They are fighting gravity all of the time. Take out a few critical components of theitmr structural design and that is what you get.

Now you have done and gone messed up a good haarp conspiracy with a bunch of nonsense. Just quote already, you are making yourself look even more silly......lol......
edit on 31-10-2012 by liejunkie01 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by tsurfer2000h
 


Obvious. By targetting HAARP using contrails, Mossad caused Sandy go back in time and demolish the WTC
Rumour has it they initially got the timing wrong though. What do you think really killed the dinosaurs?

And you call you an ATSer?



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by AndyMayhew
 





Obvious. By targetting HAARP using contrails, Mossad caused Sandy go back in time and demolish the WTC Rumour has it they initially got the timing wrong though. What do you think really killed the dinosaurs?


Now that explains alot on how the dinosaurs died, man HAARP can do it all..


I wonder if can warm up those scientists coffee when it gets cold, because if it can't it is plain useless..



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 03:02 PM
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Let me describe how a sceptic does a 180 -

Steven E. Jones was the big sceptic who "debunked" Fleischmann-Pons cold fusion...

despite the existence of plenty of credible scientists publishing the opposite in the decade to come and LENR...

but then he goes and publish with University of Copenhagen photochemistry specialist Niels Harrit the thermite paper, and sceptics suddenly abandon him...

some even bring up his Mormon connection to Brigham Young University, that was never brought up while they championed him as cold fusion debunker.
edit on 31-10-2012 by wujotvowujotvowujotvo because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 



No. I understand that you think a storm can be steered. However, in order to maintain that storm as it is steered (according to your claim) water temperatures would have to remain high enough. That is why I used 1% rather than 100% of the power required.


One would not have to maintain the storm, as the normal water vapor, temperature, and pressure differentials would maintain the storm just as all storms are maintained naturally.

Therefore, providing energy requirements for steering the storm, would not necessarily need to be enough to maintain the storm itself.

As en example of what I mean.... what are the power differentials between providing an auto-mobile with forward movement, and steering that auto-mobile on a different course?
(Yes, it is a crude analogy, but I trust you will be able to understand the specific connection to what it is that I mean.)


Air and water.


Generally speaking, that is correct.

So, as an answer to your question, creating water vapor could be used to steer a storm, since a storm is in essence... water vapor.


A storm is an organized weather system involving pressure differentials. A cloud is a collection of water droplets, or in the case of cirrus and contrails, ice particles.


And in a hurricane, the water vapor cooling as it increases in altitude, and then condensing and descending, causes local temperature and pressure variations that becomes a sort of self propagating system.

Consequently, because of the Coriolis effect... ANY storm of sufficient size will become a hurricane, as the difference between a normal storm, and a hurricane is merely the cyclic exchange of energy from the moist air, interacting with local temperature and pressure differentials, that as a side effect of the energy exchange, CAUSES or at the very least AMPLIFIES these temperature and pressure differentials.

Did you watch the video I posted about gravitational steering of a asteroid with a satellite?
(Yes, this question is important and relevant.)


A hurricane is a tropical cyclone with winds of 74mph or greater.


That is the technical classification, yes.


You didn't answer me. Are you saying that a cirrus cloud is a storm? Are you saying that a cumulus cloud is a storm? Are you saying that a hurricane is just a cloud formation?


You seem to be missing the subtle nuance of my question... and as such, I shall explain for you.

Clouds are water vapor that has condensed upon atmospheric particulates to create a local concentration of suspended water from atmospheric pressure and temperature differentials.

The only difference between a cloud, a storm, and a hurricane, is a matter of degree.

a storm is just a cloud with sufficient water vapor that has reached an area of differential pressure and temperature, that changes the saturation point of the air within the cloud itself.

Warm air can hold more water vapor than cold air... and thus, when a warm cloud encounters a boundary of cold air, the air can no longer hold all of the water vapor, and the water vapor begins condensing out of the air, and falling due to gravity.

A hurricane is the exact same thing, with the only difference being that it has grown so large, that the very conditions within the cloud formation (temperature, pressure, etcetera) begin altering (to a much larger extent) the very temperature and pressure differentials that cause it's existence in the first place.

I guess you could call it, a "Storm Singularity" (I'm sure this analogy will have meaning to you)


I understand your position. I do not understand the logic behind it. Why would a hurricane follow a trail of warm water?


Because a hurricane IS a trail of warm water.

if you use electromagnetic energy (minimally penetrating microwaves, for example) to heat only one side of a hurricane, this will cause a feedback system within the hurricane itself.

The outer cloud edges of the hurricane are comprised of descending water vapor that has given up it's heat energy by condensing (from the cold air of the lower tropopause)

This descending water droplets falls to the ground, and if it were heated, it would add energy as it is being drawn once again into the inner walls of the eye of the hurricane.

This added energy, although small, would alter the circulation patterns of the inner low pressure system, and could conceivably be used to alter the course of the entire weather system

As I have said before, at the energy levels that I have posited, the effect would be slight, maybe a few degrees per week off of the overall course.

You have to remember... a hurricane is not an apple, or a stone....

It is a incredibly complex thermodynamic feedback engine of water vapor based thermal transfer to the tropopause.



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 



You didn't answer me. If hurricanes did so, why would they move into regions of cooler water.


Momentum, and winds.


Hurricanes are not steered by water temperatures. They are steered by external weather patterns.


This is a short sighted perspective... Why isn't the hurricane season all year round, if they are not influenced by surface water temperatures?

By your logic, they SHOULD be all year round.



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 



I'm man enough to admit when I am wrong. I was trying to help my other half drive through Sandy in Ohio, and not paying attention as I replied. It was a bit stressful last night. But you were correct on the aircraft type.


Very well, and thank you for correcting me in that instance....

I remember watching an episode of that coast guard show from the weather channel, and they had some of the storm chasers on the show.

I specifically remembered the c-130, as it is a very distinctive aircraft design, and along with the A-10, one of my favourite.

I suppose it was the juxtaposition of the Hurricane Hunters in the Coast Guard show that led me to believe that they were, in fact, a part of the coast guard....

But on continued investigation, prompted by your correction, I can see that you are correct.

However, my original point of the lack of a 3 dimensional pressure and temperature model still stands, as the hurricane hunters only gather data from a general 2-dimensional plane (so far as pressure and temperature is concerned) and the rest of the structure data is taken from composite radar systems, both on the airborne, and ground systems.



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by ErtaiNaGia
 


One would not have to maintain the storm, as the normal water vapor, temperature, and pressure differentials would maintain the storm just as all storms are maintained naturally.
A storm is not a perpetual motion machine. It is not self sustaining. It extracts energy from the ocean. If the water temperature is not sufficient the storm will decay. That is what happens to storms when they enter cooler waters. If storms were steered by warm waters, why would they enter cooler waters?


So, as an answer to your question, creating water vapor could be used to steer a storm, since a storm is in essence... water vapor.
No. A storm is a low pressure area.


Consequently, because of the Coriolis effect... ANY storm of sufficient size will become a hurrican
Incorrect. It takes a combination of many factors to enable a depression to become a hurricane. Many depressions do not develop into tropical storms. Many tropical storms do not develop into hurricanes. It is not a matter of size.


Did you watch the video I posted about gravitational steering of a asteroid with a satellite?
No. But I am familiar with the concept.


Because a hurricane IS a trail of warm water.
No.


The only difference between a cloud, a storm, and a hurricane, is a matter of degree.
No.


The outer cloud edges of the hurricane are comprised of descending water vapor that has given up it's heat energy by condensing (from the cold air of the lower tropopause)
If it is water vapor it has not condensed but I get your point.


This added energy, although small, would alter the circulation patterns of the inner low pressure system, and could conceivably be used to alter the course of the entire weather system
I don't see why.


As I have said before, at the energy levels that I have posited, the effect would be slight, maybe a few degrees per week off of the overall course.
A few degrees a week. Against the influences of the steering systems? How long did Hurricane Sandy last?
edit on 10/31/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
ANY storm of sufficient size will become a hurricane, as the difference between a normal storm, and a hurricane is merely the cyclic exchange of energy from the moist air, interacting with local temperature and pressure differentials, that as a side effect of the energy exchange, CAUSES or at the very least AMPLIFIES these temperature and pressure differentials.



Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
Because a hurricane IS a trail of warm water.


Okay, so we've established that you know less about meteorology than an 8th century serf in what is now modern Finland knows about Apple iPods


For info: en.wikipedia.org...

A hurricane has a specific definition. Just as not all cars are Porsche 911s

Maybe an idea to stop digging?

edit on 31-10-2012 by AndyMayhew because: (no reason given)
edit on 31-10-2012 by AndyMayhew because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 



A storm is not a perpetual motion machine.


You are implying that I said that it was.


It is not self sustaining.


Implying that I said that it was.


It extracts energy from the ocean.


You are implying that I stated otherwise.


If the water temperature is not sufficient the storm will decay.


Implying that I stated anything to the contrary.


That is what happens to storms when they enter cooler waters.


Implying that I stated anything to the contrary.


If storms were steered by warm waters, why would they enter cooler waters?


Do these storms form over cool, or warm waters?


No. A storm is a low pressure area.


Are there storms in the upper mesosphere?

Plenty of low pressure there.



Incorrect. It takes a combination of many factors to enable a depression to become a hurricane. Many depressions do not develop into tropical storms. Many tropical storms do not develop into hurricanes. It is not a matter of size.


Yes it is.....

If you disagree, then name the criteria.

Otherwise, don't contradict me.


No. But I am familiar with the concept.


How a sustained, low force can steer a larger force?

Are you familiar with that concept?


No.


Yes.


No.


Yes.


If it is water vapor it has not condensed but I get your point.


good.


I don't see why.


I don't see how you couldn't.


A few degrees a week. Against the influences of the steering systems? How long did Hurricane Sandy last?


A couple of days. Nearly a week, I think....



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by AndyMayhew
 



Okay, so we've established that you know less about meteorology than an 8th century serf


Would you like to elaborate on how you came to this conclusion?

Or was it just an insult designed to poison the well that is my explanation of events?

Oh, and good luck backing up your assertion... because you will need LOTS of it.


A hurricane has a specific definition.


Indeed it does:


A tropical cyclone is a storm system characterized by a low-pressure center surrounded by a spiral arrangement of thunderstorms that produce strong winds and heavy rain.

(From Your Link)


A thunderstorm, also known as an electrical storm, a lightning storm, thundershower or simply a storm is a form of turbulent weather characterized by the presence of lightning and its acoustic effect on the Earth's atmosphere known as thunder. The meteorologically assigned cloud type associated with the thunderstorm is the cumulonimbus.

en.wikipedia.org...


In meteorology, a cloud is a visible mass of liquid droplets or frozen crystals made of water or various chemicals suspended in the atmosphere above the surface of a planetary body.

en.wikipedia.org...

Hence, Hurricanes are made of Water Vapor.


Maybe an idea to stop digging?


Maybe an Idea to stop obfuscating?



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by SpittinTruth

Originally posted by tgidkp
what's funny is that op considers himself an "expert" in FREQUENCIES (note all caps), and has no idea how obviously clueless he really is.

we are all enjoying watching you embarrass yourself. op, please consider that there is something here that you don't understand. Phage is right. you are confused. and it is all very funny.

well, they're all measured in Hertz, so they all must be the same! right?


------->>> NO!


For cyclical processes, such as rotation, oscillations, or waves, frequency is defined as a number of cycles per unit time. In physics and engineering disciplines, such as optics, acoustics, and radio, frequency is usually denoted by a Latin letter f or by a Greek letter ν (nu). In SI units, the unit of frequency is the hertz (Hz), named after the German physicist Heinrich Hertz: 1 Hz means that an event repeats once per second. A previous name for this unit was cycles per second. A traditional unit of measure used with rotating mechanical devices is revolutions per minute, abbreviated RPM. 60 RPM equals one hertz.[1] The period, usually denoted by T, is the length of time taken by one cycle, and is the reciprocal of the frequency f: T = \frac{1}{f} The SI unit for period is the second.FREQUENCY

You should learn more about FREQUENCIES.

If you go to HAARP’s official website you can see for yourself that the 2.5 Hz ULF frequency wasn’t only being broadcated for 10 hours, it was constantly being broadcasted for 2 days prior to the earthquake. Broadcasting began on March 8, 2011, just before midnight as you can see on HAARP’s website page – maestro.haarp.alaska.edu... Click on the Next Day link to see that the earthquake inducing 2.5 Hz ULF frequency was being broadcasted for the entire days of March 9, 2011 and March 10, 2011. Even though the signature frequency of an earthquake was shown throughout March 9 and March 10 there were no constant earthquakes occurring off the east coast of Japan.


What is the significance of a 2.5 Hz ULF broadcast? The natural resonance of an earthquake is 2.5 Hz. Link


Sound waves oscillate and so we can measure the frequency of oscillation.
Electromagnetic waves oscillate and so we can measure the frequency of oscillation.
The pistons in a car engine oscillate and so we can measure the frequency of oscillation.
I can wave my hand up and down and so we can measure the frequency of oscillation.

My hand is not a car piston, a sound or an electromagnetic wave. Perhaps things that have the attribute of frequency, can be vastly different?



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by ErtaiNaGia
 


This is a short sighted perspective... Why isn't the hurricane season all year round, if they are not influenced by surface water temperatures?
We were talking about steering, not about formation.


By your logic, they SHOULD be all year round.
No. But by your logic they should "follow the trail" of warm water and never leave the tropics.



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 11:29 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 



We were talking about steering, not about formation.


Apparently, by your logic, the two are the same thing.


No. But by your logic they should "follow the trail" of warm water and never leave the tropics.


I'm afraid that you have confused your presumption of my position, for the reality of my actual position....

All I see you doing is nit picking based on arguments that are strawmen.

Phage.... from the Latin phagein: "to devour"


Name me one single conspiracy on this conspiracy forum that you subscribe to.

Name

One.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 12:24 AM
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HAARP would have to bounce off its own ionization layer and counter vortex the
storm before becoming a hurricane. That would be a good thing for HAARP to
do. Adding to the ether and environmental power of Sandy seems too far fetched.
To ponder is how the environment can wip up such power to outdo atomic bombs
without HAARP. Is the ability to make mini hurricanes at our disposal to power
generators without coal or oil possible and hidden from our knowledge. Better
yet do people have the knowledge and forced not to make the power devices.
Are storms just a temperature gradient that builds and builds due to some known
property of gases that no one tells us about.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 12:39 AM
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Originally posted by wujotvowujotvowujotvo
reply to post by Bedlam
 


Paper on which the finding is based :


It's not a question of whether joule heating occurs with HAARP - it's whether you can compare what HAARP does to the energy input of a solar flare.

Again...do you understand what joule heating actually is? It's simply resistance heating. A lot of the thermal energy of ionospheric electrons around the pole is due to joule heating by the electrojet, for example.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 12:41 AM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by wujotvowujotvowujotvo
 


A joule is a measurement. It can't be involved in heating anything. They are just taking words and stringing them together into technobabble.


No, no, it's the same guy the unit's named for, different thing.

Joule heating is another name for I2R heat...plain old resistance heating.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 01:07 AM
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Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia

I quite clearly stated that this was being done by something closer to Nuclear vessel mounted phased antenna arrays, bounced off the atmosphere using the targeting information that was derived from HAARP, and their tests.


Ok, my bad. Your other statement makes more sense in that light. On the other hand, it does raise other issues.

Why, in your theory, do the nuclear vessel mounted phased antenna arrays need to bounce anything off the atmosphere? I assume you mean ionosphere, since that's what HAARP primarily excites. If you're talking about ionosphere bounce, you're in a world of hurt, because your subs or whatever nuclear vessel you're invoking won't be able to pack around a proper antenna array.




That is roughly 100,000,000 joules per second.

Which for that one reactor, would take approximately 1,139,400 seconds (about 13 days)

Now... what if we had... 13 of these vessels?

Oh, that's right.... it would only take one day to increase the temperature of the entire hurricane by one degree.

And, over the course of 7 days (one week) that's a seven degree C increase in temperature.



So.... you were saying?


I was saying, if you're saying you can steer hurricanes by increasing the water vapor pressure in front of the storm, you have to heat the ocean, which is a bit harder to do.



edit: if you like, instead of using the power output of the HAARP facility, try subbing in the entire generating capacity of the US, and go for, say, 10 cubic km of seawater over a year.


That's a ridiculous overestimate of the amount of water we would need to heat.....


How much heating of water in the projected path will you need to do to steer the storm by raising the water vapor pressure of the ocean? 10 cubic km doesn't seem like that much, if you look at the size of the average hurricane.





"The information of beam steering in the refractive regions of the ionosphere, that were gleaned and categorized by the HAARP; could be used to direct a concentration of several arrays of directed electromagnetic energy directly at the oceans surface in the "Path" that "They" want the hurricane to take."

There, I added the necessary punctuation... even a fool should be able to understand it now.... (Sheesh, grammer nazi's)


I wasn't picking on the grammar. More "the information of beam steering in the refractive regions of the ionosphere". The beam steering part is straightforward EM physics inherent in how you operate the array. Not that HAARP could reach the Gulf of Mexico anyway - there's a 30 degree limit to the beam sweep. If you're going to posit submarines doing this, they're actually on scene, a rational scenario would have them doing their own probing. Not only can't HAARP reach there, the data wouldn't be useful at that angle. if you're going to have a sub do ionospheric bounce, you've got another issue with array size. Also, the amplifier farm at Gakona is...large.



"The HAARP."

As in... THE HIGH FREQUENCY ACTIVE AURORAL RESEARCH PROGRAM.

Are you feeling okay? Because you just went full-on [snip]


So..the entire program is doing your scanning? Not just the IRI?



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 01:09 AM
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Originally posted by Phage

To maintain the hurricane the water temperature has to be maintained. As you point out, it is the conversion of water into water vapor and back which maintains the hurricane. So we aren't warming water vapor we are converting water into water vapor. Remember, heat of vaporization? And the power supply is the heat contained in the ocean.


That's the issue. If you're going to steer the thing by heating the ocean to produce water vapor, you have a hellacious energy requirement.






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