Vice Presidential Debate Discussion Thread

reply to post by RealSpoke

You keep cherry picking those numbers ... stopping short of showing all the corporate contributions and corporate money bundlers Obama has. It's kinda' misleading. But you've been told all this on other threads already ..

Originally posted by MrXYZ
Biden was right to laugh and roll his eyes...we should have all done that watching Ryan's performance!

If that's the criteria, then the entire country should have been laughing and rolling their eyes every time Biden opened his mouth. He lied and lied and mislead and dodged questions .. and acted like a drunken buffoon.

No .. Biden was not 'right' to laugh and roll his eyes and interrupt.

hmmmm I DVR'd the debate and just watched it again. I didn't notice the first time, but there are actual tears in Ryan's eyes while Biden is trouncing him and he's gulping his water!

Originally posted by FlyersFan
No .. Biden was not 'right' to laugh and roll his eyes and interrupt.

Just popped over to a liberal website. Went to comments and grabbed a random comment about the Obama/Romney Debate

Romney is a loud bully. And a very good liar and.. The President was very respectful. And he got his point across. After seeing this debate. I support President more than ever!!!

Obama/Biden 2012

So ya.
When your guy wins, he was strong, powerful, etc...when he loses, the other guy was a jerk, a bully, all that noise.

One thing I noticed about ATS though (leans conservative to conservative fringe) is that the right are poor losers, or even "tie'rs" (its a FX word!). Many O supporters agreed more or less that Obama lost the first one..won on facts, lost on presence, and presence is all that matters in these debates. Most of us here decided to not go down that the opposition was rude line.
Notice how basically nobody said the moderator was in the tank for Obama during the first debate.
Wonder why the right has such issues dealing in reality.

But then again, back in 08, the right never admitted to McCain losing a single debate either.

Guess its to be expected by the same group that can look at a mountain of peer reviewed evidence and a global consensus of scientists that the globe is warming and man is contributing significantly to this warming and deny it simply on principle and a few quack "scientists" in opposition (keeping in mind, there are surely some scientists on earth that may still buy into a 8000 year old earth).
However, Independents live in reality.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Just popped over to a liberal website.

Was it the Democratic Underground echo chamber? That place is a hoot.

One thing I noticed about ATS though (leans conservative to conservative fringe)

I think ATS isn't 'leaning conservative' .. I think ATS is just anti-whoever-is-in. The anti-Bush threads were hot and heavy when he was in office. The anti-Obama threads are now. And if Romney gets in, the anti-Romney threads will be through the roof. At least, that's the trend that I've seen.

is that the right are poor losers,

I've seen poor losers with both the right and the left. But honestly, I think the VP debate was a pretty much a tie. Both lied. Both got caught telling lies. Both dodged answering questions. Both were weak in different areas .. Ryan looked like a kid answering questions and Biden looked like a drunk buffoon.

Notice how basically nobody said the moderator was in the tank for Obama during the first debate.

Did that moderator have Obama at his wedding??
Did that moderator visit Obama just 4 months ago??
(like the VP moderator visited Bidens residence 4 months ago??)

Wonder why the right has such issues dealing in reality.

Wonder why the left has such issues dealing in reality. Their guy BIden LIED and LIED and DODGED and MISREPRESENTED. So did Ryan. But why doesn't the left acknowledge that their guy did these things? They are too busy 'wooting' it up that their guy was a rude P****. really classy. :shk:

Guess its to be expected by the same group that can look at a mountain of peer reviewed evidence and a global consensus of scientists that the globe is warming and man is contributing significantly to this warming and deny it ...

and you talk about the right 'having issues dealing with reality'
1 - 'hide the decline'
2 - carbon tax credit $$$ making scheme
3 - natural cycles

reply to post by SaturnFX


I actually had a thread about exactly what you are talking about.
Of course the concept was lost on many. They don't want to hear truth or look at things from another perspective, they just go full steam ahead and continue to prove the point you are making

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by FlyersFan

One thing I noticed about ATS though (leans conservative to conservative fringe)

I think ATS isn't 'leaning conservative' .. I think ATS is just anti-whoever-is-in. The anti-Bush threads were hot and heavy when he was in office. The anti-Obama threads are now. And if Romney gets in, the anti-Romney threads will be through the roof. At least, that's the trend that I've seen.

Actually I agree with you here.
I guess at the end of the day, its a conspiracy website. Its sort of the theme to be anti-the man, whomever the man may be at any given time.

I don't like the way Biden debated mind you. I prefer Ryan's style of discussing matters verses the emotional drawing that Biden was doing...however, I do understand the audience watching at that particular time. They wanted a fight...boxing match. It saddens me that emotion spiking zingers are more important than content being presented...but this is how the republic is..probably always has been.

As a person in opposition to Romney 2012, I am glad Joe won the debate to dull the jump a bit. Sort of like how the Right completely abandoned all of their principles during the first debate because it worked for Romney..the etch-a-sketch did shake well. Sickening, but tactically sound strategy.

One minor flaw in your analysis however. Consider the seething hatred the right has for Nancy Pelosi because she was speaker. When she was in office, ATS was constantly slamming congress.
Now Boehner has taken over...things like vet jobs bill and other such gimme stuff was blocked, congress is at a historic all time low..and ats is almost empty of threads on congress. no chain letters popping up about how congress has failed the people again, etc...it is conservative slanting. But I am not complaining about that...after all, I am here to check the sea of neocons

Batman was a liberal!

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Batman was a liberal!

Jesus Christ was too, but they sure won't admit that one either!!!

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

I actually had a thread about exactly what you are talking about.
Of course the concept was lost on many. They don't want to hear truth or look at things from another perspective, they just go full steam ahead and continue to prove the point you are making

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Well, it doesn't serve them well.

In order to correct a problem, you must first identify the problem. Failure can strengthen you if you allow it. Its critical to acknowledge when something went wrong, then take measures.

The people whom were watching the candidates before the debates are the informed ones on both sides..thats when the talking points matter, the facts, etc.
Debates are for people that have overall ignored everything, but will spend a little time to see what is going on here..but their mindset isn't about fact checking anything...they simply believe that the politicians are more or less telling the truth (even when its completely not). Presence and conviction matters in debates moreso than facts sadly.
Now, both sides almost equally stretched, bended, and even broke truth in various areas during the vp debate. this is understood by those of us in the know...but Biden had overwhelming presence and to the average uninformed viewer, Biden painted it as only Ryan was spinning and lying due to the smiling, laughing, and eye rolling. Sure, Joe came across as a bit overly aggressive, but the uninformed viewer definately felt that Ryan was fibbing and doing lawyer gymnastics because of Joes reaction. Many people, when hearing what they know is a lie, have the same reaction, and that connects to people.

That tactic doesn't always work mind you. If you don't interrupt and try to give what sounds like the actual story, then it just looks like your an ass in the corner...which is what joe did..he laughed, rolled eyes, and interruped with what sounded like a accurate truism...which again, is what normal people do when some other dude (say at work throwing you under the bus) is lying about what happened.

Presence.

I don't agree with the tactic (I am an informed voter however, more into the information over political theater), But I know its effective for the target audience...and that is how I know Joe won the debate. Not a destruction win, not a nuclear strike...But a sort of 8 to 10 win.

But again...I think the Steward / O'Reilly debate the other night is equal, if not more significant than this in terms of actual voting sway.

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Batman was a liberal!

Jesus Christ was too, but they sure won't admit that one either!!!

Jesus Christ was Batman?!

...

It all makes sense now...

____
JC was the ultimate liberal
But his dad was the ultimate conservative.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Batman was a liberal!

Jesus Christ was too, but they sure won't admit that one either!!!

Jesus Christ was Batman?!

...

It all makes sense now...

____
JC was the ultimate liberal
But his dad was the ultimate conservative.

edit on 14-10-2012 by SaturnFX because: (no reason given)

hmmmm I never thought about it that way, but you do have an excellent point!! The change from the Old to the New Testament was very much a political mind-shift wasn't it?

Thanks for that amazing insight this morning!!

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

I actually had a thread about exactly what you are talking about.
Of course the concept was lost on many. They don't want to hear truth or look at things from another perspective, they just go full steam ahead and continue to prove the point you are making

You know it is funny that you wrote this for I have not seen a single thread from you that suggests anything other than your post here is YOU. lol

Its like Biden slamming Ryan on voting for the wars, and HE also voted for both of them...You/Biden all just pick and choose, don't you?

I would love for Obama to be successful, and if he was I would vote for him, but he hasn't been and in a BIG way. That is the problem here, you can Speculate all day on Romney, but there is no speculation when it comes to Obama.

I hope in four years we have another conversation and I'm dead wrong on him... Whatever he does good or bad will have little influence on me, but on YOU and much of the country I hope for this.

reply to post by Xtrozero


Not my fault you don't seek out more information and don't look at things other than the thread on a message board you happen to be on...



BAZINGA!

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by thetiler

 

You do realize that the Mormon church got rid of those racist beliefs and practices DECADES ago, right? 1978. And the Church has publically condemned racism .. both inside and outside the church. read here . I don't buy what the Mormon church is selling and I think it's beliefs are easily debunked, but let's not try to claim that the church has racism in it's belief system anymore. It doesn't.

Obama's black liberation theology 'church' .. on the other hand .. still practices racism today. In fact, racism is at the core of it's belief system. Why not talk about real racism that still exists and is still part of the practice for Obama's 'church'??

Let's get over the past thing, that is the current leaders false escape hatch. When past LDS prophets say "forever", "always" etc. in their speeches about racism or any other doctrine that concerned people want to know. The current prophet has to own it. Again, they can't deny what a past authority of that church mentions, when that past prophet mentions "forever", or "always", It becomes an error for the whole church and it sheds a terrible darkness for the legitimacy of that church.

In old testament times, if a prophet made even one mistake in speaking a false doctrine, it would be death.



So saying the past is done is done with is totally false!

What's with all the religion talk and why was there even a question on religion at all?! The question should have been confined to abortion and how it will be handled by each administration. Both answered that question on party lines. Roe v Wade can be overturned if sufficient republican judges get elected (notice I didn't say conservative, because a true conservative wouldn't insert government into a woman's body).

Who cares if there's an atheist, christian, jew, muslim or mormon in the white house as long as they state the policy they will pursue? The US is founded on moral principles, some of which are derived from religion but that doesn't mean that the bible is the constitution and code of laws!

I do believe that if the R/R ticket gets in and their judges overturn Roe v Wade then 2016 will be a landslide victory for dems because all those suburban women are going to wake up and realize their moms gains are lost. Because no matter how devout you want to be in your religion, when you or someone in your family has a rape child or just gets their life messed up because they become teen moms you will become an activist for the cause!

I expect the red states who passed abortion restrictions to become solid dem in the next 20-25 years because of all the welfare kids that will be born there because of these restrictions. And they'll probably go bankrupt like California due to their welfare systems being overwhelmed. It's unbelievable what the party of Lincoln has become!

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Not my fault you don't seek out more information and don't look at things other than the thread on a message board you happen to be on...

You can joke all you want...I don't find the main topic as funny though, sorry. I fly drones for a living and Obama loves Drones...I'm set

Originally posted by DarkSecret
Roe v Wade can be overturned if sufficient republican judges get elected (notice I didn't say conservative, because a true conservative wouldn't insert government into a woman's body).

One thing we do know is Judges hardly ever follow party lines...and extreme judges will never make it.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by DarkSecret
Roe v Wade can be overturned if sufficient republican judges get elected (notice I didn't say conservative, because a true conservative wouldn't insert government into a woman's body).

One thing we do know is Judges hardly ever follow party lines...and extreme judges will never make it.

Considering the extremes that have taken over the R's since 2010 I would expect a R majority today will pick judges that would never have been selected in the past.

Biden and Obama lie so much. Pretty much anything they say the opposite is true. i think it is a propaganda tactic.

Originally posted by watchman13
Biden and Obama lie so much. Pretty much anything they say the opposite is true. i think it is a propaganda tactic.

yet they still lie less than the opposing side...

scary huh?