Is teaching humans to be good people evil?

Originally posted by cavalryscout
reply to post by AthlonSavage

 

Boy oh boy.....so here we are.

Is it bad to be good?

Really? This is it folks the way of thinking has sunk to an all time historic low.

I think you misunderstand. I didn't get that from the OP at all.

Originally posted by cavalryscout
How can "teaching" a child to cheat and steal be a good thing? Is it going to help a damn thing?

No. It's not a good thing. Case closed. But the OP never said that, or even implied it either. For me what he was trying to say was that perhaps we should not teach our children that the world is black and white, and in terms of human behavior, this is absolutely true.

When we teach them this, then we get adults who rush to judgement, and so commit an evil act by condemning someone uneccisarily into the "bad person" category. Teaching this enforces the societal tendancy for scapegoating, which I believe is the root of the most evil acts that human beings can commit against each other. The primordial excuse complex that allows people to kill others, sometimes on a grand scale, enslave them, or just plain treat someone like crap.

As an example of this:

Originally posted by cavalryscout
reply to post by AthlonSavage
Don't argue your stupid #ing ideas by saying you used different words. I know you used different words but they have very similar meanings.

No! You are so wrong it's absurd.

Nice. I mean well done. You have made the OP's point.

Originally posted by cavalryscout
reply to post by AthlonSavage
Teach your children some basic manners and the world may be a better place.

Well I suppose. But there is more to being a decent human being (alot more) than just manners. Manners are a veneer for the purpose of social order, actually meaning it... That is something else entirely.

reply to post by redhorse




What is enlightment really? Its awareness that the material reality is consciouness wearing masks. The masks can be good and evil. When someone has ascended high they see this and are in a position where they can use and wear the masks at their own will. Its here love can become love of the masks and real love becomes their tortured slave. Is teaching humans to be good evil. It certainly holds risks for some who love the adulation they recieve whne they place on the mask.

Even if the concept of good people would only be some kind of false illusion to aspire to, which it isn't because there are good people in the world, you would still require it for some kind of basic stability within your societal structure.

We as living beings will still want the good things in life, including being good to people we love or like, because that's how we're programmed to be,to seek out the best things in life.Of course because the values of humanity are distorted with the help of the system set in a way in which we cannot cooperate but have to compete with each other, this gives people like you the idea that it is the way we are as a species.

Wrong, we choose what we want to be based on our environment and how we're taught to be as we grow up by other people,when basically what they're doing is the same perpetuated thing they were taught to do in their time.

Our problems are with our values, they are outdated and unnecessary today when technology can solve most our problems, and enable everyone in the world to be provided with all the needs in their life.Those values are enforced through the system of capitalist thought and politics.Change the system and the values and people shall soon follow.

Check out the Resource Based Economy if you haven't already, through the links in my signature to find out more about it if you're interested.

What is enlightment really? Its awareness that the material reality is consciouness wearing masks. The masks can be good and evil. When someone has ascended high they see this and are in a position where they can use and wear the masks at their own will. Its here love can become love of the masks and real love becomes their tortured slave. Is teaching humans to be good evil. It certainly holds risks for some who love the adulation weaing the mask.

The fair heart versus the cruel heart. It always comes down to this struggle, good versus evil. Is teaching humans to be good people evil. It would appear this is the lesser of the evil compared to the silence that devines light was shining on him. A stab through his heart.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Bluesma

 

When i attended an course called 'How to be Assertive' it opened up a whole new world for me. It helped me to find an alternative to victim or bully. The mind works in opposites so it will flit from one to the other so by giving it a neutral space it eliminates conflict.

edit on 12-10-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Yeah, that is what I find to be true also! In many things, if you choose to embrace one extrme and reject the other, you always end up with self contradicting behavior sometime down the line.

If you can find a balance, or mid-point, you have more chance of integrity.

reply to post by Bluesma

If you can find a balance, or mid-point, you have more chance of integrity.

If integirty comes down to gambling then whats the point. I understand your good intention in this statement however its dissapointing if in reality thats the best we can do.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Bluesma

 

If you can find a balance, or mid-point, you have more chance of integrity.

If integirty comes down to gambling then whats the point. I understand your good intention in this statement however its dissapointing if in reality thats the best we can do.

I don't understand what you mean? Gambling?
Maybe you could try to elaborate or clarify for me what you mean?

Maybe you didn't understand what I meant? I can try to clarify myself.....
Like in the example of aggressivity- instead of choosing to be either aggressive or be run over by someone aggressive,
You choose to be assertive..... That is in between- you don't run over anyone else, but you do not let anyone else run you over either. Like standing firm your position, blocking attacks, but not making any attacks yourself.

I don't experience any gamble in that, and I certainly don't find it disappointing when I do it!

reply to post by Bluesma


if social systems are filled with self contradicting behaviours, and people are engaged in activities in them systems then whats the point of using a belief system to resolving the contradictions. Well of course in reality we see many people breaking their own rules, for example the woman who doesnt stick to her diet rules, the good man who sleeps with his best friends wife. The rules were in place but they failed. Why because the human being couldnt live to them. The use of the term gambling infers predictable outcomes. Are good humans playing aways against the odds, have they been set up always lose because the odds are against them? If that isnt gambling i dont know what is.

Hm. I guess I don't get it.

The use of the term gambling infers predictable outcomes.

To me, in gambling, it seems to be the opposite- the outcome is unpredictable.


You mean you prefer to play that good/bad system because even if you are doomed to lose (to be hypocritical, because it is inevitable) at least you can predict that you will lose, and that is better?

reply to post by Bluesma

But anyway, I just don't see how you find it less fulfilling to exit that system, as I propose?
You mean you prefer to play that system because even if you are doomed to lose (to be hypocritical, because it is inevitable) at least you can predict that you will lose, and that is better?

I see where our misunderstanding lies we are noth looking at same thing but from a opposite direction. You see unpredictable losses and i see predictable losses. Either way a human who is taught to be good will be playing and suffering greater losses at lifes gambling table. What is better? Set up your own gambling table and rig the odds of winning so that losses are predictable.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Bluesma

 

But anyway, I just don't see how you find it less fulfilling to exit that system, as I propose?
You mean you prefer to play that system because even if you are doomed to lose (to be hypocritical, because it is inevitable) at least you can predict that you will lose, and that is better?

I see where our misunderstanding lies we are noth looking at same thing but from a opposite direction. You see unpredictable losses and i see predictable losses. Either way a human who is taught to be good will be playing and suffering greater losses at lifes gambling table. What is better? Set up your own gambling table and rig the odds of winning so that losses are predictable.

Sorry, I tried to be more concise and editted mine while you were responding!

It seems to me you are commenting on the choices of either being good or bad, like being either passive or aggressive..... ?

We are definately not understanding each other! LOL! I proposed doing NEITHER. But exiting that system completely and no longer seeing the world in terms of good or evil choices! But just a desirable route of balance, and other differing levels on each side that are sometimes less desireable.

Like instead of seeing your choices as being the aggressive predator, or the passive prey,

you see you can choose to be the assertive individual instead. Neither good nor bad.

We could teach our children that view instead of a good /evil one. At least the explanations would make more sense- we could actually show how extremes are problematic (and they could watch that confirmed in everyday life), an dnot have to use myths and stories about magic and gods.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Bluesma

 

if social systems are filled with self contradicting behaviours, and people are engaged in activities in them systems then whats the point of using a belief system to resolving the contradictions.

If you resolve the contradiction who cares what the social system is?
Don't be good - be at peace. Step out of the system of contradiction.

reply to post by Bluesma

We are definately not understanding each other! LOL! I proposed doing NEITHER. But exiting that system completely and no longer seeing the world in terms of good or evil choices! But just a desirable route of balance, and other differing levels on each side that are sometimes less desireable.

You are describing your perfect world and its one in which you have control over the enviromental thermostat to remove any forms of agressiveness or passivness that cause what you see to be evil actions.
This indicates that your inner nature is inherently one of control. In simple terms you love to be in control. If you arnt in control you will try and be passive and calm until you can longer maintain that poise and then your will be agressive and start being a source emitter of evil.

I believe your world is flawed because you are human, and as such your human qualiites will always surface eventually and when the right stimulii is injected like the full moon of the wearwolve you will crave the hunger tp be evil.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


The system of contradiction is people. Now how would you propose i step out of that system???

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

The system of contradiction is people. Now how would you propose i step out of that system???

No, the system of contradiction is not people. It is what 'you' believe. Check your beliefs and you can free yourself from them.
The belief in the system is duality - good/bad, right/wrong.
Neutrality is the answer - the middle way.

Don't worry about the other people, let them be split in two by their contradictions. Only you can be free from the contradictions by realizing the truth. Leave them be.

When the two become one the kingdom will be revealed.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

No, the system of contradiction is not people

Yes it is, its people. It need only be one person that be be the achilles heel. How can i explain this to you. Frustrating. Ok lets presume for a second im the clevest guy on Ats. If i cant work it out the how can you answer hold any weight. I know thats slippery logic but hey this thread is like a soccer game im going for a kick from the opposite end of the field to goal...i feel lucky!

reply to post by AthlonSavage


No it is not.
If you want peace then you have to work out what is causing you unpeace. If you blame other people you will never find the true answer and you will never know peace because blaming others is not peaceful.
Find the contradiction. The mind (the thoughts) speak in opposites - good/bad, right/wrong, the mind, the words conradict. The human mind is always flitting from one to the other, it is conflicted. See the fight that is happening in the mind and cure that and you will uncover peace.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Its a person, one indivdiual who is the source of my unpeace. For any person in the world it could be one, two three or more people, but for me just one and no its not me. The only thing i will concede on is its singular sometimes and not plural.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Its a person, one indivdiual who is the source of my unpeace. For any person in the world it could be one, two three or more people, but for me just one and no its not me. The only thing i will concede on is its singular sometimes and not plural.

That person is not with you all the time but the thoughts you have about them is what denies you peace.
Peace is what you are when thoughts are seen as just appearances that appear and disappear.
You are the peaceful, quiet space in which thoughts arise.

Find the quiet that contains the mind:
youtu.be...

reply to post by AthlonSavage


It is you. You are the one feeling the sensations and you are the one blaming another for you disturbed peace. It is all you so you are the one responsible for your prison break. Only you can free yourself from the prison of your mind made contradictions.