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posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 05:22 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


So the Colosseum was the only arena in existence back then? I don't think so.

What I'm trying to say is Paul NEVER met Jesus while he was still alive.... ever. He then persecuted and sentenced the followers of Jesus to death and torture all because of what they knew was a threat to the power of Rome.

After all these persecutions and killings he gets a "miraculous" vision from Jesus that cannot be verified whatsoever, the only thing we have to go on is his word. You choose to take a murderers word for it instead of paying attention to what Jesus said while alive. Why is that?

Enlighten me on what Jesus meant by not calling anyone father on Earth. Is Paul's "father" used in a different context than Jesus'? If so, in what way is the context different? Answer wisely.




posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


If Jesus was such a big threat to Rome why did Pilate state seven times that he found no fault with Him?



posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


He found no fault yet still sentenced him to death.
That's ironic isn't it?



posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 07:38 PM
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I don't know what type of "Christianity" you've been looking into, but in the version I was taught as a kid, one simply wasn't forgiven for saying a few words. However, you would be forgiven if you were truly sorry for what you had done, and apologized (confessed) for it. I do not think that the Catholic Church is right with telling people they must confess to a priest though. Proper religion is a relationship between a person and that person's creator.



posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 07:44 PM
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reply to post by JiggyPotamus
 




Proper religion is a relationship between a person and that person's creator.


This I agree with wholly, not an indirect relationship with Father through a pastor.



posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 08:16 PM
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I love that there are so many people here that are willing to debate on behalf of their Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.

I think this is revealing for many of the hearts here today. I'm surprised you all do not see this?

Look at the passion each has for their respective belief. What is true about each one of the people that love the Lord is that they are passionately willing to debate what He has been trying to tell us.

But therein also lies the problem; Christians are now divided. The OP is correct. It is the pastors' fault.

But it is also the fault of the people who refuse to spend the same amount of time reading their Bibles and praying to God as the pastors' do writing next week's sermon and calling people and figuring out the bills of the church building.

Each and every one of you; if you truly felt that what you had to say was regarding the life or death of the individual to whom you are speaking, then why is it that you have forgot also to say, "I love you in the Lord Jesus Christ and I am so happy that you also love the Lord Jesus Christ!" But instead I see that each is attempting to hold back some anger and using passive behavior with the mindset that each has it figured out better than the other. This is incredibly ironic considering that most everyone is saying basically the same thing here.

Of course, in all things I am saying here, I am excluding anyone here who attempts to cause strife and argument by paying attention to those who distort the teachings of God by respecting the person through whom the Spirit spoke; and also by those who have absolutely no say in the matter - but they are only full of ignorance, and double that, because they attempt to make a statement instead of keep their mouths shut and listen.

Do not fall into the trap of arguing with people who purposefully distort. You know who they are when you see them. Whenever that spirit creeps into you head that says, "Maybe they really are just that ignorant and need an explanation from you." I think it would be better to remember that they have had just as much access to most of all of this information as you have had.

I myself have become a part of many denominations over the years. I might be one of the most experienced Christians here as far as going to each of the denominations with a mind ONLY for the Lord and actually discerning who is good and who is not.

The OP is absolutely correct. NOTurtypical - While you are greatly appreciated, your understanding about the true state of the so-called and self-proclaimed Christian church today is unfortunately limited. You can either take our word for it, which is honest and true; or you can get out more and start seeing it and stop allowing your love for people become also a stumbling block. It is not loving of your fellow brothers and sisters in the Lord Jesus Christ to turn a blind eye to their manipulations. It is good to be loving and forgiving; but it is wise to be discerning. Remember how the Lord said that we should not lean unto our own understanding, but that we should trust in the Lord. If we cannot trust ourselves, then how can we possibly trust everyone else? But only the Spirit of God can reveal to us who is trustworthy and who is not; because only God searches the reins and the hearts of people. Flesh and blood is completely incapable of actually discerning what is truly in the heart of an individual.

But He also said that we discern by the fruit, just as a poster mentioned earlier.

But do you think, NOTurtypical, that an abundance of fruit is more important than the quality of the fruit?

Or do you think that there really are over 2 billion Christians on this planet?

Didn't God say that the end of the world would be just as it was in the days of Noah? And how many were saved by God from the flood? Very few.

That being said, we should also be wise not to judge each other. For if we all are here indeed brothers and sisters in the Lord Jesus Christ, then we are an exceptionally rare lot and we should hold DEAR to what we have; to meet someone else gifted with the Spirit of the Lord...!

Be careful of the legalism that some Christians teach. While it is good that we should obey the law, and yes also the Lord commands it, for He says that we, His children, "have the testimony of Jesus Christ and obey the commandments of God". But also know that GOD knows.

Read this very carefully everyone, because it has become painfully obvious that you are all forgetting one important thing.

GOD KNOWS.

You do not need to justify yourselves to each other. When a brother or sister discourages you by attacking the fact that you have a vice or a problem of sin instead of helping you (when you know your pain and conviction; which would not exist if sin were a life to you), then let them have their say. But know that GOD KNOWS.

And brothers and sisters, do not be so harsh. (As a poster said, SDA). Your legalism can destroy souls. Pharisaical. Have Love



posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 08:26 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


How is it a straw man? Him sending the letters about his conversion to Christianity before he started persecuting Christians makes no sense. Why would he convert to Christianity then turn around and kill his fellow Christians? It doesn't make a lick of sense to me.



posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by adjensen
 


So the Colosseum was the only arena in existence back then? I don't think so.


Show me the archaeological remains of a Roman arena in Jerusalem, if you please. Then explain why a Pharisee would throw someone to the lions in it, when the proscribed method of killing for the Jews was stoning. You seem obsessed with Paul's bad behaviour, did you never notice how Stephan was killed?


What I'm trying to say is Paul NEVER met Jesus while he was still alive.... ever. He then persecuted and sentenced the followers of Jesus to death and torture all because of what they knew was a threat to the power of Rome.


And where are you coming up with the basis for these fantasies? "What they knew was a threat to Rome"? What are you talking about? What did they know? And why would a Pharisee care?

I know that you've never read the Bible, but come on... even a casual observer would know that Paul was a Jewish Pharisee.


Enlighten me on what Jesus meant by not calling anyone father on Earth. Is Paul's "father" used in a different context than Jesus'? If so, in what way is the context different? Answer wisely.


I've already told you several times, there is no point in telling you again.



posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 09:53 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


How is it a straw man? Him sending the letters about his conversion to Christianity before he started persecuting Christians makes no sense. Why would he convert to Christianity then turn around and kill his fellow Christians? It doesn't make a lick of sense to me.


Of course it doesn't make sense, that's not the order of events, and it's a straw man because I never claimed any of that.



posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by JiggyPotamus
 




Proper religion is a relationship between a person and that person's creator.


This I agree with wholly, not an indirect relationship with Father through a pastor.


So why does the Holy Spirit gift and call pastors? Have you ever chanced upon Ephesians 4 before?



posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


He found no fault yet still sentenced him to death.
That's ironic isn't it?


He put it on the Jews. In fact the crowd said His blood be on their heads and their children's heads and he symbolically removed himself from responsibility by washing his hands in front of the Pharisees and crowd.



posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 




So why does the Holy Spirit gift and call pastors?


The fundamentals, the stepping stones to that relationship. Once you have the basics down, then you can go to Father on your own.



posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 10:46 PM
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If you believe the Bible to be the infallible Word of God, you're still in the Old Covenant.

The New Covenant is about God and the Holy Spirit writing the law in our hearts and minds.

Today, someone says the name of the Lord in vain, no one speaks out. Someone burns the Bible, all goes in frenzy! Who will you die for, the Holy Spirit or the Bible?



posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


The persecution of Christians by Rome started during Jesus' ministry... how could Paul have sent the letters to Rome about his conversion before Rome started persecuting Christians?

Paul didn't convert until after Jesus died and Rome started persecuting Christians before Jesus died so where are you getting this information from?



posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 11:35 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


The persecution of Christians by Rome started during Jesus' ministry... how could Paul have sent the letters to Rome about his conversion before Rome started persecuting Christians?

Paul didn't convert until after Jesus died and Rome started persecuting Christians before Jesus died so where are you getting this information from?


Wow, do you ever have a messed up perspective on history, not to mention logic.

Read that first sentence, how does it even make sense, unless you think that Paul was before Jesus? Beyond that, no, the Romans weren't persecuting Christians during Jesus' ministry, and Paul wrote his letters over a long period of time (at least a decade) during which Christians were being persecuted, though the level of it differed.

Once again, I ask you where, apart from your own imagination, do you get the evidence that "Rome started persecuting Christians before Jesus died", because there is zero historical evidence of that, and the Bible says absolutely nothing to support it. Logically, it doesn't even make any sense.



posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 11:48 PM
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Debating on the bible won't do us good. Both sides have their opinions....

.....But look around you. Nearly all Christians can't even do what Jesus says.

They can't even do what Paul says. Worse, they twist Paul's potentially errant teachings into a whole new level of evil.

They twist even the bible to make Christianity easy, in absolute opposition to what Jesus and even Paul said. Carry your cross... .....you will suffer....

You can find everything in the Bible. You want to murder? You'll find somewhere it's okay in the Old Testament. You want to make someone your sex slave? You'll find somewhere it's okay in the OT. You want to be richest guy on Earth, you'll find it there..

Christians have found ways to justify evil (materialism) and still look good (murder, rape, and homosexuality is bad)

Nearly all Christians today will be utterly surprised at the judgement.

At the current state of things, only few will make it.
edit on 11-9-2012 by ahnggk because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 11:52 PM
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reply to post by ahnggk
 




At the current state of things, only few will make it.


So very true!



posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 11:54 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


So killing them by stoning is more merciful than throwing them to the animals? I think they're about the same myself except death by stoning is a lot more drawn out. Either way you look at it, he killed people for believing a certain thing that he didn't agree with.

I never denied Paul was a Pharisee, what I said was that he was a Roman citizen. Do you deny that fact?

No you didn't answer it, all you did was deflect the question by saying Jesus didn't ban the word father. The word father is used within the same context by both Jesus and Paul, if not then in what context were they both spoken in?



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by ahnggk
Debating on the bible won't do us good. Both sides have their opinions....


Bah... I'll stack a Christian's ability to defend what the New Testament has to say against a critic any day. Critics either rely on emotional arguments ("Oh, look at how horrible this god is!") or they take what's in the text and twist it to make their point.

Is that honest?



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 12:02 AM
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reply to post by adjensen
 



Persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire began during the Ministry of Jesus and continued intermittently over a period of about three centuries until the time of Constantine when Christianity was legalized.


Link

Just because the persecution didn't happen IN Rome doesn't mean it wasn't carried out by the Romans.

The fact still remains that Paul never met Jesus, killed his followers, then claimed to have a vision from him saying things never said while alive. You are completely ignoring the obvious. You refuse to even acknowledge what I'm saying because of the indoctrination.





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