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posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 09:14 AM
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reply to post by HamrHeed
 




Some people accept that mankind is falling and they choose to look away because they're
a) scared
b) don't understand
c) understand but love immaterial


I would say the inability to want to assist. Many feel if it does not directly affect them, they do not want to get involved. But, they do not understand it does affect them, even if they do not see it on the surface.




posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 09:29 AM
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Originally posted by adjensen
Why would someone curse God because of the actions of people?


Thanks for the great example of an emotional and irrational argument!


If all who profess they believe Jesus do follow his teachings, the world today will be far different

The unbelievers will be amazed in our God because of our actions. They will strive to seek what drives us to the bitter end. Yes, we will be persecuted and executed for our beliefs. Our actions will crush their hearts with the love of God.

They will come to repentance and will be saved.

But reality is, no one will go to the bitter end. Christians won't carry their crosses. They won't go the ends of the Earth, they want it easy. For they love their lives and their families more than God!

They run after the same things the unbelievers run after.... What good is that?? How can you be a light of this world when you are as dark as the darkness of this world??
edit on 12-9-2012 by ahnggk because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by HamrHeed
 




Some people accept that mankind is falling and they choose to look away because they're
a) scared
b) don't understand
c) understand but love immaterial


I would say the inability to want to assist. Many feel if it does not directly affect them, they do not want to get involved. But, they do not understand it does affect them, even if they do not see it on the surface.


But we have to remember that life has many Facets. Some won't discover spirituality ever.
I think most people have a striking chance of making it



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by HamrHeed
 




But we have to remember that life has many Facets. Some won't discover spirituality ever.


Many do, and either do not recognize it or shy away from it, because it is too much for them. I have watched this from afar on all.



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by HamrHeed
 




Some people accept that mankind is falling and they choose to look away because they're
a) scared
b) don't understand
c) understand but love immaterial


I would say the inability to want to assist. Many feel if it does not directly affect them, they do not want to get involved. But, they do not understand it does affect them, even if they do not see it on the surface.


I have rarely met anyone outside of prison who would not help someone in need if they had the means to do so. The only exception was when I worked at a prison and the inverse was the norm.. which was remarkably odd.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 09:50 PM
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The prayer of salvation is a modern phenomenon and is not the way to salvation. We are to follow Yahushua, not man-made traditions. Now don't get me wrong, indeed you must repent and accept Yahushua as the Messiah, King of Kings, and Lord of Lords. Yet, merely following the Law of God cannot bring salvation. Salvation is from grace by faith and faith alone. Yahushua is the perfect sacrifice and the Perfect High Priest. Yet what is evidence of faith? Obedience to the Torah, and loving Him as He has loved us. In order to be saved, we must have faith in Yahweh and His Word, which is what Yahushua is. After all the Word is the truth, and Yahweh's Son is the way, the truth, and the life. Think of the 10 Commandments as a summary of the Torah. The Law of God is not difficult, nor is it a burden to carry out. Sure, we will sin. The Law is, was, and is to come. Sin is our unfortunate condition. But if you sincerely desire to seek His Word, and fear Him, and love Him; Yahweh will restore you and renew you. Everybody has fallen short and broken His commandments. The penalty for sin is death. Yahushua did away with our debt to the Law on the cross, and has made it possible for the House of Israel to return to Him. However, He did not do away with the Law. He is a merciful, loving Creator, who is also holy. We must do the best we can to live in obedience to Him. Love your neighbor, love even your enemies. Do not murder, do not even think an angry thought or wicked scheme. Do not commit adultery, do not even think lustfully about a woman. Jesus came to fulfill and teach the Law of God, and He if anything defined it even farther. Saying a little prayer is not salvation or obedience. It's a magic formula. You must first have faith in Him and desire to follow and love Him back, then you are saved. Keeping Torah cannot save you. Yet keep it because you are saved by grace through faith. It's really quite simple So to anyone who wishes to come to Him, come.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by yahushuasaves
 


It would really help if you broke your posts down into paragraphs. I don't think anyone is going to take the time to read that wall of text.

Just a friendly suggestion.



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


Suggestion acknowledged. I will break up my paragraphs for easier reading in the future. I am focused on clarity of thought to convey what I am trying to say without confusion, and not on breaking it up. Thanks for the heads up though, it would be easier that way.

Shalom.



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 02:32 PM
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To clarify the new covenant, we must remember that in a Hebraic perspective, a new one usually is stacked upon all of the others. When pastors in modern church services tell you the Old Covenant is done away with and that the law is abolished, then they are telling you that Yahweh is a liar and His word is not really forever. I focus a lot on the End Times, and prophetic themes, yet now I feel I have been lead by the Spirit to expand and teach on keeping the Law to prove that we love Him in obedience to Him in addition to everything else.

Since Christ is The Word of God, and The Word is God, He is the perfect example to emulate in the keeping of the law. Keeping the law does not save you alone, but having faith in Him in addition to following out of obedience does. Therefore, simply saying a prayer of salvation is not the way to life. It does nothing to save us.

John 14:15 "If you love me, keep my commandments."

John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

1 John 5:3 "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."

Here it is said by the Messiah, and the Apostle John that loving Him is keeping His commandments. The Epistle even informs us that keeping them is not a burden, or something to look upon with grief. Where do we find the commandments? In the Torah, the instruction of God. So we see that salvation comes from faith in Yahweh and the Messiah(who is God,) and also because of that salvation we must follow the Law as best we can. The New Covenant in Christ perfected the priesthood of Levites to the Priesthood of Melchizedek, making an imperfect tabernacle made by men and mere men now One who is perfect with a perfect tabernacle.

The Messiah. Yahweh in the flesh. He is the new High Priest, making intercession for us daily in place of animal sacrifices. He is the one perfect one. That does not mean that the Levitical Law is done away with either, The Priesthood was made better, not done away with. The same way the Torah is in our hearts as is the Holy Spirit. This was the new covenant. To write the law on our hearts not delete it. It is simply a layer of another covenant. Not a replacement. So to be saved takes not a magic formula, but an honest faith and pursuit of the Law. Then will we be called righteous, because the Law defines righteousness in the first place. It's really quite simple.

2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

Romans 15:4 "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope."



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to post by yahushuasaves
 


Were Gentiles ever a party to the first covenant? (Exodus 20)



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by yahushuasaves
 

The New Covenant in Christ perfected the priesthood of Levites to the Priesthood of Melchizedek, making an imperfect tabernacle made by men and mere men now One who is perfect with a perfect tabernacle.
There is no such process as what this statement implies, that there is a priesthood that is made better, or that there is a tabernacle that is somehow made better. There was already the "better" tabernacle, in heaven, that the man-made one was a copy of.
There was already a better priest who even Melchizedek was was being used as an allegory of.

. . . it is said by the Messiah, and the Apostle John that loving Him is keeping His commandments.
"His", in this case would mean Jesus'.

Since Christ is The Word of God, and The Word is God, He is the perfect example to emulate in the keeping of the law.
Christ is not the Word, or Logos, rather, which you seem to be deriving somehow from John 1.
You seem to be picking up some heretical ideas from the so-called Messianics, where you see Jesus was the living Torah, and the example of the perfect keeping of the Old Testament law.
Everything about that is wrong and purposely meant to contradict the New Testament Christian beliefs, otherwise, there is no reason to create their own cult movement in the first place, if they thought Christianity was OK as it stands.
What the prolog to the Gospel of John is saying was that whatever God was, then so was the Logos. It is not saying that the Logos was a person, or ever became a person. Whatever this thing was, the Logos, was what God is all about, and that quality of God that mankind needs to know, which will give us understanding and motivation for good, and for life, it came about that it dwelt with us in the person of Jesus.
Keeping the Torah was not the goal of Jesus, in fact he pointed out its imperfection and lack of ability to give life.
What Jesus was doing was to make the complete and whole law known, the one that can only be ascertained and followed spiritually, with a spirit provided from God and delivered to us through the intercession of Jesus and initiated by our belief in him.
Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets because it is they which pointed to him.

edit on 15-9-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19



posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


You have taken what I am saying out of context. I have never said that keeping the Law grants us salvation. What I have said is that because we are saved we are to give evidence of that faith by obeying the Law. Not that keeping it saves us.

Titus 3:9 "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain."

Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill."

The word for fulfill here is the Greek word Pleroo (meaning to abound and fulfill to make complete or in this case fully teach it.) He indeed came to fulfill those things that were foreshadowed by the prophecies, but that does not make the Law of Moses void. The Law of Moses defines sin in the first place. Jesus never came to put an end to the law, but to put an end to the debt we owe of death to it. Our sins are blotted out and forgiven by His perfect sacrifice and intercession on our behalf being the perfect High Priest, but the Law is still to define sin. Why is the Law of Moses hard? If anything don't you think Christ made it's application even stricter? Also, you said that His commandments mean His (Jesus') commandments. Considering: "before Abraham was "I AM" would it not be safe to say that Jesus' commandments are those same ones of Yahweh? Context is very important in Scripture. One common objection to the Law of Moses is that child was to be stoned, but if you look at the context of these verses its clear it was a last resort for dealing with a rebellious older child, who was a glutton and drunkard before the elders of the city, in a TORAH BASED court system. Also this is very clear:

Leviticus 24:22 "Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God."

Romans 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

The Messiah magnified the Law and did not make it void. What He did was die in our place for our debt of death to it.

2 Corinthians 5:21 "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."



posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Deuteronomy 29:15 "But with him that standeth here with us this day before the LORD our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day:"

Remember that this is a covenant on top of the one at Sinai.

Leviticus 24:22 "Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God."

Numbers 15:15 "One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD."

It is clear that the Torah was for everyone that desired the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Even if they were not a blood-Israelite, they could still come to Him. Just as it is today. There is One God and One faith. No denominations or divisions. All who come to Him are Israel, just as the ones there.



posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by yahushuasaves
 



The New Covenant in Christ perfected the priesthood of Levites to the Priesthood of Melchizedek, making an imperfect tabernacle made by men and mere men now One who is perfect with a perfect tabernacle.


All I am saying is that the entire context of this area of the Book of Hebrews is not about abolishing the Law or covenant, but about the priesthood being assigned to the Order of Melchizedek, and being removed from imperfect men capable of sin and a perishable Tabernacle, to one that is perfect and yes, exists heavenly. The Law itself is not changed, only the fact that the problem had to do with mere men being the Priesthood and not Yahushua the Perfect High Priest. In other words the Lamb is worthy, mere imperfect men are not because they can disobey and go astray. So the change in the law was a change of leadership, not a change in the Law of God itself. A transfer from the Levitical Priesthood to Jesus Christ. Does that make sense? So the only way the covenant was made better is because He is now in charge of the administration instead of imperfect men.

edit on 16-9-2012 by yahushuasaves because: Left out a word



posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by yahushuasaves
 

Jesus never came to put an end to the law, but to put an end to the debt we owe of death to it. Our sins are blotted out and forgiven by His perfect sacrifice and intercession on our behalf being the perfect High Priest, but the Law is still to define sin
I realize this is a popular notion among some circles, that Jesus died to satisfy the demands of the Law, but it is just a philosophy of religionists, and not a biblical teaching.
Jesus saved us from those demands by removing those documents that worked against us and that only brought death. You have a point in there being a law which remains, but it is the law of love taught by the historical person, Jesus, and is taught to us in our hearts by the holy spirit that dwells in us through the intercession of the risen Christ.
edit on 16-9-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19



posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by yahushuasaves
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Deuteronomy 29:15 "But with him that standeth here with us this day before the LORD our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day:"

Remember that this is a covenant on top of the one at Sinai.

Leviticus 24:22 "Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God."

Numbers 15:15 "One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD."

It is clear that the Torah was for everyone that desired the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Even if they were not a blood-Israelite, they could still come to Him. Just as it is today. There is One God and One faith. No denominations or divisions. All who come to Him are Israel, just as the ones there.



Dude, why are you teaching Jesus + Law? Have you read Galatians? Or Acts chapter 15? Or Christ saying the two greatest commands fulfils the entire "law and the prophets"? Who are you trying to bewitch? If you want to keep the law you're free to do so, but you will have fallen from grace.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Galatians is a very misunderstood book that needs to be taken into context. Acts Chapter 15 is also a difficult chapter because it would seem Paul and Barnabas are against the Law. However, in context, it is very clear that they are teaching that keeping the Law is not our salvation. Gentiles can come to Him just as they could. They were saying keeping the Law was salvation. Jesus is our salvation, but because we are saved we must still follow the Law as part of the obedience that goes with salvation. Faith without works is dead. They were saying works were salvation, which is clearly not the case. Paul was trying to clarify that they didn't need to force them into simply keeping the law to be saved, because they were trying to say that outward application in the flesh was salvation. When in fact it must be inward first. They were legalistic, and Paul was trying to clarify this. It is through the grace of Jesus Christ we are saved, not by works of the Law. Works justify no one. Yet, because we are saved, we should strive to keep His commandments. His commandments are not burdensome. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Since He is Yahweh in the flesh, His commandments also include the Law of Moses. Which were of yesterday, today, and even the Millennium. The Scriptures are clear that the Law of God will be part of the Millennium. What word of the Lord do they refer to in the Old Testament, if there was no New Testament to begin with at that point? The Torah.

Isaiah 2:3 "And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem."

Isaiah 42:21 "The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honorable."

Psalm 119:105 "Your word is a lamp to my feet, and a light to my path."

1 Corthians 9:21 "(To them that are without law, AS without law, (being not without law to God, BUT UNDER THE LAW TO CHRIST,) that I might gain them that are without law."

edit on 17-9-2012 by yahushuasaves because: Fix



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 07:48 PM
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reply to post by yahushuasaves
 


I didn't say anything was wrong with good works. Works isn't the law.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 02:16 AM
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reply to post by yahushuasaves
 

Since He is Yahweh in the flesh, His commandments also include the Law of Moses.
It doesn't actually say that anywhere. Jesus was the I Am, specifically in the Gospel of John. "Yahweh" is something taken from the conversation in Sinai between Moses and an angel, where the angel answered Moses' question of what he should tell the people who sent him. The reply was something that meant I Am, or the existent one, which got slightly modified and turned into a name that we find in the Hebrew version of the Old Testament. The New Testament is in Greek, so you don't find the word, Yahweh, but EGO EIMI, which means, I Am. So there is a correspondence between the two titles, the one in the OT of the angel of Sinai, and the one in the NT of Jesus, who was the Son of God. Jesus said no one had seen the Father, so obviously the angel was not God, but was in fact an angel who served as the representative of God. Jesus does the same sort of thing but on a higher level, where he is actually on the god level, higher than an angel. The NT tells us that the old covenant was administered by angels, and the new covenant is superior in that it is administered by God Himself in the person of Jesus Christ. As the administration of and the covenant itself is superior, so the law attached to it is superior in that it is not something written in stone but is written on our hearts.

Which were of yesterday, today, and even the Millennium. The Scriptures are clear that the Law of God will be part of the Millennium. What word of the Lord do they refer to in the Old Testament, if there was no New Testament to begin with at that point? The Torah.
No, I don't think it really says that. You may have some sort of chain of logic that gets you to that conclusion, but is not something spelled out like that. Isaiah was dealing with things that were more immediate and had to do with the recovery of Judea after the return from the Babylonian exile.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Or Christ saying the two greatest commands fulfils the entire "law and the prophets"? Who are you trying to bewitch? If you want to keep the law you're free to do so, but you will have fallen from grace.


Not a law that is easy as it seems!
but very easy to test!


How to prove that you love God with all your heart, soul, and mind??

You win 1million dollars tax free, how big is your smile??

The Holy Spirit asks you to go to South Africa to live among the poor AS A POOR MAN in slums FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, to help bring the Gospel to them, how big is your smile??

If your smile is genuinely bigger in the latter, then you may have proven you love God with all your heart, soul, and mind.


That's the cost of following Jesus, it will cost you everything, even your life!
edit on 18-9-2012 by ahnggk because: (no reason given)



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