Say a phrase, and you are saved...

reply to post by ahnggk


Many are called, few are chosen.

God will not ask of you more than you can bear. Few will be sent to live in poverty. So, what of the rest? Loving God with your everything begins and ends with loving your neighbour as yourself. Is that a simpler, easier to bear commandment? Loving our immediate neighbour/brother/rival/parishioner?

Sometimes, those nearest are the hardest to love; sometimes we all rely on the kindness of strangers whilst our loved one's ignore our plight, or we ignore theirs.

Originally posted by ahnggk

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Or Christ saying the two greatest commands fulfils the entire "law and the prophets"? Who are you trying to bewitch? If you want to keep the law you're free to do so, but you will have fallen from grace.

Not a law that is easy as it seems!

but very easy to test!

How to prove that you love God with all your heart, soul, and mind??

You win 1million dollars tax free, how big is your smile??

The Holy Spirit asks you to go to South Africa to live among the poor AS A POOR MAN in slums FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, to help bring the Gospel to them, how big is your smile??

If your smile is genuinely bigger in the latter, then you may have proven you love God with all your heart, soul, and mind.

That's the cost of following Jesus, it will cost you everything, even your life!

edit on 18-9-2012 by ahnggk because: (no reason given)

What verse is that? Pure religion is also to help the widow and orphan in their time of need, you can't do that if you can't make the electricity and gas payment. I would actually love the 1$, I would make sure the church loan is payed off.

reply to post by ahnggk

That's the cost of following Jesus, it will cost you everything, even your life!

Mainstream Christianity likes to avoid tough subjects. Unfortunately, that is why Christ said:

Luke 18:8 "I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?"

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Why is the Law of Moses difficult? It is how sin is defined. What defines sin without the Law? If there is no law, there is not a way to define sin.

Originally posted by yahushuasaves
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Why is the Law of Moses difficult? It is how sin is defined. What defines sin without the Law? If there is no law, there is not a way to define sin.

Really? How was sin defined for 2,500 years before Moses came along?

Jesus was pretty clear IMHO. Love. Love your fellow man, and love the Lord with everything you have got. Those two commands "fulfill the entire law and prophets".

Christ gave two commands, that's why He said His yoke was easy and His burden light. The law was given to man not to make him self-righteous, but to point to a bloody cross. What does Ephesians 2:8-9 clearly state?

And good works are not keeping the law. Good works are loving and serving others to the glory of God and for His Kingdom.

reply to post by yahushuasaves


Sir, might I suggest a re-familiarizing yourself again with the 10th chapter of the book to the Romans?

Originally posted by yahushuasaves
reply to post by ahnggk

 

That's the cost of following Jesus, it will cost you everything, even your life!

Mainstream Christianity likes to avoid tough subjects. Unfortunately, that is why Christ said:

Luke 18:8 "I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?"

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
And the law is not of faith -Galatians3

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith
Philippians3

Originally posted by yahushuasaves
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Why is the Law of Moses difficult? It is how sin is defined. What defines sin without the Law? If there is no law, there is not a way to define sin.

Also, this matter was decided already at the first Jerusalem council in Acts chapter 15:

4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.

5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

11 But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

So what is your justification for trying to make Gentiles follow the law of Moses?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

So what is your justification for trying to make Gentiles follow the law of Moses?

Why does Paul refer to the law when states that women should remain silent?

Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.
-1 Corinthians 14:34

Looks like Paul wants the law to be followed. So I don't get how Acts 15 removes the need for people to keep the law.

Does 1 Corinthians 14:34 apply only to the Jews? or does it apply to the gentiles as well?

If it also applies to the gentiles, then are they also bound by the other parts of the "law" as well?

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

So what is your justification for trying to make Gentiles follow the law of Moses?

Why does Paul refer to the law when states that women should remain silent?

Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.
-1 Corinthians 14:34

I had to research this recently, and found an essay where the guy wrote that Paul was being sarcastic in that part. I don't remember the original source, but this question/answer is similar (the second answer specifically addresses your cited passage.)

Looks like Paul wants the law to be followed. So I don't get how Acts 15 removes the need for people to keep the law.

The relevant portion of Acts 15 to your question is this, from Peter:

Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are. (Acts 15:10-11 NIV)

Peter notes that faith in Christ, and his sacrifice, is what saves a person, not adherence to the Law, which even devout Jews had been unable to fully comply with. This, of course, was Paul's argument, and was accepted at this Council of Jerusalem. Christian Jews, by and large, still stuck to following the Law (for cultural reasons, not religious, for those who agreed with this teaching,) but apart from the admonitions later in Acts 15, Gentiles did not.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Does 1 Corinthians 14:34 apply only to the Jews? or does it apply to the gentiles as well?

There is no law, as in an actual spelled out law, in the Old Testament, that Paul would have been referring to.
You could possibly take it to mean "the Law" in general, meaning the Torah, where there is the idea that women should be submissive to their husbands.
Or, maybe more likely, it is more a rule that probably Paul made up for the conduct of the church services, but which he does not want to itemize in this letter, where it obviously would have been already well known in the church of Corinth. He goes on from there, to say "did the word of prophecy go out from you?", where he may be exerting his authority to make the rules.
The hypothetical rule, I would imagine, would be something like, "do not engage the spirit of the prophecy as if it was an entity to converse with, separate from the person who is speaking the prophecy", where this sort of thing may be too reminiscent of what Eve was doing with the serpent in the Garden.

They were teaching legalism at the Jerusalem Council. Paul was trying to clarify that yes, the Law saves no one. Keeping the Law is not what salvation is. The cross and Yahushua's blood as the perfect Passover Lamb is salvation if we have faith in Him. Our faith and belief in Him is our salvation. Yet, because we are saved by Yahweh's grace (which has always been there in one form or another,) we should follow His Law as evidence of our salvation. In obedience, not in legalistic fashion. I am not teaching legalism. I am trying to clarify that in Christ we have our salvation, yet faith without works (which includes observing the Law) is dead.

As for Jews and Gentiles, the word gentiles simply means "of the nations" or "out of covenant." The Jews are from the tribe of Judah, and the tribe of Benjamin also made up the House of Judah. The House of Israel is distinct from the House of Judah. So the reason Israel is associated with Jews is because after the captivity to Babylon they returned. Yet that was only two tribes of twelve tribes. The other 10 tribes for the most part assimilated into the nations, since the House of Israel went off into Assyria and the nations and got a divorce from God. So the House of Israel is lost among the Gentiles. It all goes back to the blessing of Manasseh and Ephraim. Ephraim was to be greater, because he was to become the fullness of the gentiles.

When someone says Jewish holidays, Jewish customs, etc. they are only referring to a small part of Israel. Anyone who comes to faith in Jesus and puts their hearts toward Yahweh are Israel. How then can the Law be abolished? Re-examine what you think you know. Look at what Paul actually said in context.

May God open your eyes and bless you.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Really? How was sin defined for 2,500 years before Moses came along?

Romans 5:13 "(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."

John 9:41 "Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth."

Romans 7:7 "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet."

1 John 3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

Acts 23:3 "Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, thou whited wall: for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to the law?"

Leviticus 19:18 "Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself: I am the LORD."

Is loving our neighbor really a new command? Or was it always there? Was Jesus against the Law?

Matthew 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Luke 16:17 "And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail."

Deuteronomy 30:19 "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:"

Isaiah 65:17 "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind."

It is clear that until the new heavens and new Earth, any part of the Law will not be done away with. So again is it saying: "Jesus I believe you died for me and I confess you as Lord" that saves you? Or is it accepting Him and confessing Him, putting faith in Him. For without faith it is impossible to please Him. Simply saying this common phrase of salvation is not salvation. From faith in Him we are saved, and yet because we are saved we must bear the fruits of repentance and righteousness by following His commandments. His commandments are NOT burdensome. Following traditions of men will lead only to this:

Matthew 7:23 "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Originally posted by teapot

Many are called, few are chosen.

God will not ask of you more than you can bear. Few will be sent to live in poverty. So, what of the rest? Loving God with your everything begins and ends with loving your neighbour as yourself. Is that a simpler, easier to bear commandment? Loving our immediate neighbour/brother/rival/parishioner?

Sometimes, those nearest are the hardest to love; sometimes we all rely on the kindness of strangers whilst our loved one's ignore our plight, or we ignore theirs.

edit on 18/9/2012 by teapot because: edit

That phrase came from Matthew 22:14.. If you read the verses before it, it's really not a very nice thing.....

Many were called, few are chosen... Those who were not chosen were thrown to the outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth!

God will not ask you more than you can bear?

Jesus told the rich man to sell his possessions and give to the poor. The rich man who apparently was being Godly in many things, but his wealth went away sad and broken.

Read all John 6 and in John 6:66, Jesus drove away many of his disciples due to his hard preaching against the things of the flesh - Spirit vs flesh = Life vs death = eternity vs temporal = Bread of Life vs food that spoils = True riches vs zero value

Jesus was teaching those things, a lot and consistently! If you believe Jesus, then living in poverty shouldn't even bother you a bit. Even if out of circumstances beyond your control you became desperately poor and homeless. You should never be sad, but celebrate and still be joyful for you still have God and you've only lost things of no value!

Loving our immediate neighbour/brother/rival/parishioner?

Who are your neighbors?? Go read up the "Parable of the Good Samaritan"

There's a poor kid in Africa immobilized by hunger and apparently will die of starvation very soon. Just a few blocks away, lives a rich ruler but just ignores this kid, doesn't care if he's gonna die the next hour...

Then a guy straight from USA, comes to rescue this boy, treat his illnesses, gave him food, nursed him to full health and gave him a nice home.

Who do you think is the neighbor to this kid?

However, it is also true, if you become a true follower of Jesus, "your enemies will be members of your household"

From loving you before, they will begin to hate the new you!

reply to post by yahushuasaves


Good works isn't the law. Good works are being unselfish, serving and loving others. Pure religion is helping widows and orphans. And the entire reason for the Jerusalem council was because Judaizers came to the Galatians after Paul left them and said the new Christian converts after accepting Christ by faith then had to get circumcised and follow the Mosaic law. Precisely what Acts 15 says.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by yahushuasaves

 

Good works isn't the law. Good works are being unselfish, serving and loving others. Pure religion is helping widows and orphans. And the entire reason for the Jerusalem council was because Judaizers came to the Galatians after Paul left them and said the new Christian converts after accepting Christ by faith then had to get circumcised and follow the Mosaic law. Precisely what Acts 15 says.

Oddly enough there seems to be a rise in people who ignore anything after the gospels. Council of Jerusalem included. Almost like there's no point to even have the other apostles for all they say goes ignored.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I agree that those are good works and that by doing them faith with works is shown. However, if you cannot show any Scriptures that say that the Law is abolished, then why do you continue to deny it? Paul was rebuking the sects for teaching another Gospel contrary to the Gospel. They were teaching works salvation which is contrary to the salvation of Christ. Of course faith must be evidenced by good works. The works themselves do not save us, but our obedience to do them does working with faith.

Good trees bear good fruit, bad trees are thrown into the fire. Trusting in our own righteousness cannot save us. Trusting in His free gift of salvation can. However will we continue to sin so that grace may abound? Certainly not, right? Therefore because of salvation and grace, we should strive to be obedient.

I have given more than three witnesses in Scripture that show the Law is to be followed, and the Word of God shall stand.

Matthew 5:19 "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Galations 1:8 "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

Romans 16:17 "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."

reply to post by yahushuasaves


I just showed you sir. That's the entire reason the first Jerusalem council was called, to settle the debate of whether or not Gentile converts were required to he circumcised OR follow the Mosaic Law. The decision of the council was that NEITHER were required of Christian converts, that Christ fulfilled the demands of the law.

The law was just a schoolmaster. To show us that we are sinners. To go back to the law after Christ is to "fall from grace". It's also a subtle form of blasphemy, in essense it says "Jesus did His part in saving me, but it was insufficient, now I need to complete the job." No! Christ's sacrificewas all-sufficient for the redemption of man. We trust HIM alone. And He gave two commandments, saying if we keep these two commandments we "fulfill the ENTIRE law and prophets". 1. Love our neighbor as ourself, and 2. Love God with all our heart, mind and strength.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Neither are required for salvation, because Christ is our salvation. Yet whoever breaks the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom. I understand where you are coming from, but Yahweh's Law is forever at least until heaven and earth pass away, and anyone who comes to faith in Christ is grafted into Israel. Therefore they are heirs to the covenants of promise.

Romans 11:17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Hebrews 8:6 "But now has he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises." (Speaking of the Melchizedek and Levitical Priesthoods not the Law. (Covenant here is about removing the imperfect men and establishing Yahushua as High Priest, for the Melchizedek Priesthood is greater than the Levitical.) Hebrews is a book where the ellipses (added words) in translation were a sincere effort, yet the context is clear.

Ephesians 2:12 "That at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:"

reply to post by yahushuasaves


Do you cut the hair on the side of your head? Do you wear a beard that you never trim?