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Paul isn't talking about gentiles here, he is talking about Israel as the context says.
Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
Paul isn't talking about gentiles here, he is talking about Israel as the context says.
So Pauls messages were only meant for the Israelites and not the Gentiles? Are you telling me that Pauls statement "it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. " does not apply to you?
First address the verse in question.... Romans 10:9-10.
Paul states "it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved."
You say mouthing words is not necessary.
You contradict Paul. Which one of you two should I believe?
Originally posted by whyamIhere
What a great thread...S&F
I loved reading the replies to your simple question.
I find it interesting who thinks they are going to heaven and why.
Some people seem to treat it as "a game" of numbers.
I can see it now. A new reality TV show...Who's going to Heaven.
I don't see it that way, you either trust and rely on Christ or you don't.
Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by NOTurTypical
Yes, I've heard of that perspective before. In fact, I read a book a couple of years ago that couched evangelism and holy living in terms of similarity to a video game -- scoring points, getting achievements and so on, and you cash in your points on "crowns" at the end. I'm sure that the author was trying to connect with younger readers in a way that would be meaningful to them, but to me, it was a little off-putting.
But your description is a good way of demonstrating that works have merit, thanks for that -- the Arminian in me is right on board with you :-)
The Spirit quickened Proverbs 24:16 when reading your post. The just man falls, yet keeps getting back up to continue the race, the wicked man falls and stays down.
Originally posted by jhill76
My question would be:
- Why do many think this is all it takes, just say a one line sentence, and now you are given access to heaven?
- Doesn't it take more (faith, works, belief) to be a true believer?
- Why isn't it explained that it takes more than a few sentences to be truly saved?
Matthew 19:16-17
And behold, one came up to him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?"
"And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."
Luke 10:25-28
And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"
Jesus said "What is written in the law? How do you read?"
And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself."
And he said to him, "You have answered right; do this, and you will live."
2 Peter 3:16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
This is all a total fabrication.
IMHO it's vital to start and end any doctrine with Christ. Did He say He would cast anyone out who called upon His Name? That's why there exists the doctrine of rewards for faithfulness. Someone could potentially lose all their rewards, but they are still saved. I can't fathom why anyone would try and lose rewards, but any doctrine cannot nullify what Christ said. He said He will in no wise cast out any man who called upon His Name. All saved people will enter heaven, but not all those will inherit heaven. Justification only accounts for the Penalty for sin, Hell. One's standing in Heaven and the earning or loss of rewards is based on faithfulness of service to the Lord and the motive for serving Him. Paul talks about the misfortune of people who will lose all rewards for lack of works or ones "burnt up" because they were done with a perverse motive, but they are still saved people. They won't go to Hell because of Christ's sacrifice, but they have no rewards to show for their service.
What did Paul say just prior to that? I brought this up on the last page also, but perhaps you didn't catch it.
Entering through the gates of Heaven is not the gift. "Saved", in terms of something outside of us, that was done for us, was the works of Jesus as our savior, to create a way for us to be better persons than we could be otherwise, by Jesus vanquishing the hold that sin has on us, and to provide the way for the spirit from God to dwell in us to good works.
As for the once saved always saved doctrine, it's based on salvation not coming by anything we have done by works. That it is a gift of love free of merit that we did not deserve and could never earn and because we never merited salvation to begin with, it will not be taken away on our merits. A gift is not a gift if it comes with conditions, such as the conditional covenants God made with Israel prior to the second covenant.
Regardless of whatever he said prior to that, Paul still emphasized on the importance of mouthing words to be "saved".