The Men In Black(OPs) The Aviary & UFOs

Greg Valdez Dulce Base book has just become available and the companion website/documentation is now online.

Dulce Base

Got mine!

Jacques Vallee: The evidence for an “undercurrent” of deceit behind some alleged UFO cases only becomes visible when you spend time in the field interviewing witnesses and tracking down the evidence. It became annoying to me because it represented a waste of time and a distraction from studying genuine observations. Researchers who collect reports only through books or media accounts would not necessarily encounter this level of the phenomenon and would understandably resist the suggestion that the belief in extraterrestrial intervention is being manipulated to serve political or cultist goals.

Even people who are fully aware of this negative aspect don’t want to bring it up into the open because they think it will call disrepute to the subject. Many erstwhile ufologists don’t want the deceptive reports exposed, just as the Catholic Church long denied instances of abuse in its ranks. Whistle-blowing is never welcome. My own position has always been that, on the contrary, the best way to gain the respect of the intellectual community is to expose hoaxes, sloppy research and manipulation whenever we encounter them.

TDG: The underlying message of the book seems more relevant now than ever - in the last few years, we've had the "Serpo" case gain high traction in certain parts of the community, and now the "CARET Drones" story seems to have taken on a life of its own, despite there being little to no evidence behind either. Considering the dangers in uncritical belief that you warn of in Messengers of Deception, do you think high profile ufologists and media should be more diligent in exercising a 'duty of care' when presenting these cases so eagerly?

Jacques Vallee: If we do not establish a high standard for the data we publish, the entire field suffers. Then it becomes easy for skeptics to claim that the phenomenon only appears before “cranks and weirdoes,” as astrophysicist Stephen Hawking recently stated in England. This is exacerbated by the increased credulity of the public and its blatant exploitation by the media. It seems that people – including some highly educated folks – are ready to believe almost anything they see on the Internet or on Larry King.

TDG: In Messengers of Deception, you warn people to be careful of 'psy-ops' initiated by intelligence agencies and the military - you cite the World War II case of the 'London Controlling Section' (LCS), whose sole purpose was strategic deception, often using "tricks of science". How far do we take this caution though? A large portion of ufologists, most of the individuals who have worked in researching/conducting remote viewing, and also a significant portion of parapsychologists, all have fairly strong links to military or intelligence groups. Should we therefore be highly skeptical of the claims made in regards to each topic, even if it seems scientifically sound?

Jacques Vallee: The same standards should apply here that apply in science generally: Look at the evidence behind every claim, track down the references, and test the data yourself. People linked to the intelligence community of the major countries have been closely involved in studying UFO cases since World War Two. That interest is legitimate, whether it is purely personal (as most of them claim) or related to their official duties. The same is true in parapsychology.

This only becomes a problem when that quasi-official interest goes beyond pure research and extends to actually faking sightings, disseminating false photographs or films and promoting weird beliefs, either to serve as distraction from actual intelligence operations, or as a cover for the development of advanced prototypes. A good example is given by the claims of UFOs seen over the USSR in the seventies, that were planted by the KGB to cover-up the launching of soviet satellites that violated the SALT treaties. Every nation can play this game, and has.

dailygrail.com...

Jacques Vallee: Another aspect of your question is that for a long time the ufologists have been blind to the fact that the phenomenon can be manipulated. In particular it can be manipulated by the government, by various intelligence groups or by different cults with their own agenda. I published over ten years ago in Messengers of Deception my conclusion that many of the UFO organizations had been infiltrated.

That book got me in a lot of trouble with my friends in the UFO community who refused to look at that particular problem. 

Since then, of course, this observation has been vindicated. One government informant has even come forward to reveal that he, in fact, had been recruited to befriend various UFOlogists and to write psychological profiles of them.

Every UFO organization is monitored by government informers. 

On the board of the National Investigation Committee on Aerial Phenomena, which was one of the major organizations in this country in the ’50s and ’60s, were three people who were among the founders of psychological warfare. They were people with strong ties to the government and intelligence community. I’m not saying it’s necessarily illegal or wrong, but it should be recognized.



One of the recommendations of the 1953 Robertson Panel, convened by the CIA and the Air Force to review the UFO problem, was that UFO organizations be watched. That report was classified at the time. That recommendation was in fact implemented. The civilian UFO groups were being watched and infiltrated as early as the fifties. They still are. 

I think this aspect has many remarkable consequences.

To what extent were some well-known UFO sightings actually simulations that were staged for the benefit of someone who wanted to do social engineering research or psychological warfare research? Perhaps to see what kind of stimuli it would take to make people change their belief systems, for example.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Originally posted by Druscilla
Just look at Facebook tagging. What better/easier way to get the general population to build a better facial recognition platform as well as willingly volunteering names with faces not registered in any database since most facial recog databases only cover known criminals?
Everyone participating is essentially a government informant/snitch on everyone around them.

Every cell phone is a voluntary bug and location tracker. Any and every agency can for any or no reason at all use your cell phone to spy on you, or anyone around you.
Further, the smarter cell phones are mini computers, usually used quite heavily by their owners, and all that wonderful data of browsing habits, emails, texts, phone calls, GPS data of places frequented, contact lists, and everything contained on a cell phone is there for the taking.

Wow, 1yr later and your post has a whole new meaning post Edward Snowden. Perhaps I should root through all your posts!!

To say you are well informed is an understatement!

So damn, page 4 (where was I a year ago ) and I have seen 6 banned accounts in 4 pages (and some who should be but aren't)!!!!!!

Gut, are you still alive today?

Just checking because you clearly hit a nerve!

Originally posted by Rosinitiate
So damn, page 4 (where was I a year ago

) and I have seen 6 banned accounts in 4 pages (and some who should be but aren't)!!!!!!

Gut, are you still alive today?

Just checking because you clearly hit a nerve!

Yeah, I'm still alive. I have, imo, took some blows outside of this thread, however. Maybe me tinfoil's a bit tight, and maybe it ain't, but I wouldn't be the first person who has questioned some of these folk, brought them into the light, called them out, and called them insulting-but-well-deserved-names, that has experienced some real-life repercussions.

The super-troll, btw, has DIRECT ties to the folk mentioned here. What that might mean is still up for grabs. EASILY documentable though and without much question. That aspect ain't theory.

Thank YOU so much for your thoughts and checking in on me. You have no idea, I'm pretty sure, how much I appreciate it.

I might also add that there is some very relevant information that I can't relay here due to, lets say, T&Cs, that would really bring this baby home. I've tried to leave some clues to that along the way but, admittedly, couldn't be obvious about it.

It's mostly a case of damning documentable evidence that is mixed with personal opinions and aspersions that can't be totally proven and, as such, can't be reproduced here. Fair enough. But for those that can read between the lines and find it: Rather eye-opening.

Thank you again, Rosinitiate. Keep checking in. Slowly but surely there are some folk much brighter than me that are gaining interest, or were researchers on whose shoulders I've stood in following the evidence as regards this subject, and I hope to add some new info here before, hopefully, too long.

BTW: PM me if you're interested and I'll give you some page numbers that will cut to the chase and bring this all, I would hope, into a lil' more perspective.

The bottom line to all of this, as I see it...

...certain elements, agencies, or factions within said agencies, have, and continue to, push the meme that the UFOlogical phenomenon is strictly extraterrestrial in both nature and origin, and have, as it were, developed a bogus mythology to support this assertion.

Through subterfuge, infiltration, and the use or witless dupes, said factions have fostered a long-standing supposition that UFOs are hard, physical spacecraft; furthermore, these operatives have created a mythos that goes so far as to insinuate that we have ongoing treaties with said little grey men, and even active cooperation with them.

What I find interesting about the overall story arc of the modern UFO phenomenon is that almost every source of "detailed" information is invariably originating through someone within the military apparatus; whether directly in the military, or in a civilian support role, the entire dialogue on this aspect of the phenomenon always has the tendrils leading back to the same octupus...curious...

I personally don't give a chip what sort of commendations any of these moral realtivist scumbags have; nor am I impressed with their haughty credentials.

The rub is that John Alexander's book on the subject is EXTREMELY telling. It may as well have been titled, "UFOs: The Government Has Nothing To Do With It. I Pinky Swear". When he brought up the point that Tom Clancy dismissed any government cavorting with the UFO phenomenon because, "I would have known about it", I threw up in my mouth a little. Good Ole Doc Death found someone with a matching level of humility...

I haven't pinned it down yet, but I have a sinking suspicion that the UFO/Extraterrestrial Myth plays into the SRA phenomenon of the 1980s. That may seem like a stretch, but what they both have in common is typical mindbender stuff, and thinly-veiled connections to drug trafficking and the War-for-Profit Complex.

When you stick your snout in this stuff for long enough, a pattern begins to emerge, and there is a nexus where all this chicanery seems to converge into some pseudo-occult, counter-culturesque, world where intelligence operatives are just as at home spinning yarns and forging documents, as they are using SRA as a cover for covert mind-control operations, and smuggling narcotics for blackmailing politicians whom aren't playing by THEIR rules.

Couple that sort of tomfoolery with absolute nutbags like David Icke, crooks like Steven Greer, and frauds like Bob Lazar running around, and before you know it, a genuine mystery ultimately turns into a certified circus...clowns and all.

reply to post by AllenBishop

Hi, AlienBishop. Good stuff, man. Thanks for sharing it here.

I owe some member--I can't remember who--a thank you for turning me on to the following vid.

I certainly don't agree with Nick Cook on everything, for example I believe the foo fighters were a truly anomalous phenomenon, and not secret German technology as Cook supposes, but this is a very worthwhile & fascinating piece that most who are still following here will enjoy.

The historical footage and the general cinematography on the location shots are excellent, too, which I found a real bonus.

From foo-fighters to Roswell to Soccoro to Black Ops to Project Paper Clip to some fairly heavy-hitting insider intel ops, and even Abductions, check it out.

Even Col. John B. Alexander was in it, and I must give credit where credit is due: His considerable intellect, his fairly believable but nonetheless well-stated synopsis of ufology as relates to the military's knowledge, or lack of, were all impressively presented.

reply to post by The GUT


I will definitely lay my peepers on it. A decent Documentary on UFOs is a rare treat.

Like you, I feel that the Foo/Feu fighters were an anomalous phenomenon. I put absolutely zero faith in any of the alleged German-origins of ultra-advanced aircraft. I use the Horten series of flying wings as a prime example. If, as we are pressed to believe, the Germans had anti-gravitic flying machines, they wouldn't have been wasting time on balsa wood jet powered gliders. It would have been a full-court press on full-scale production of the "Hannebu" and "Vril" saucers. Ultimately, I think the German origin of UFOs is a modern fairytale, with little intelligence-agency involvement; they seem to prefer the little grey men angle...

I could ramble on about how absurd the notion that there is a fleet of UFOs in the US is to me, but I'll spare the equines my nightstick for a while.

I can't seem to find any translations of his work, but a scientist in the Ukraine, Oleg Bakhtiyarov, seems to be pretty cutting edge in the field of psychotronics and unleashing human potential. Sounds like he should submit his resume to the Birds...

I'm curious as to whether Courtney Brown has any connection to any of this...six degrees of separation and all. I read his book about 15 or 16 years ago on remote-viewing, and it involved, if my memory serves me, making contact with a collective of alleged extraterrestrial intelligences.

I think there was a connection to Ed Dames, and the experiments in Psi research run out of Fort Meade, Maryland.

I remember, when the Serpo thing surfaced, having Deja Vu with some of what I, vaguely, remembered from Dr. Brown's book.

Originally posted by AllenBishop
I can't seem to find any translations of his work, but a scientist in the Ukraine, Oleg Bakhtiyarov, seems to be pretty cutting edge in the field of psychotronics and unleashing human potential. Sounds like he should submit his resume to the Birds...

New one on me, I bet I will find Oleg interesting. Thank you.

I'm curious as to whether Courtney Brown has any connection to any of this...six degrees of separation and all. I read his book about 15 or 16 years ago on remote-viewing, and it involved, if my memory serves me, making contact with a collective of alleged extraterrestrial intelligences.

I think there was a connection to Ed Dames, and the experiments in Psi research run out of Fort Meade, Maryland.

I remember, when the Serpo thing surfaced, having Deja Vu with some of what I, vaguely, remembered from Dr. Brown's book.

Something just clicked when I read that. RV'ing must be discussed more in depth here. I hit it some, but it's time to expand and review the long ties to our cast of characters here and what that might mean.

Apparently, as you probably know, Dr. Sidney "Dirty Trickster" Gottlieb of MK-ULTRA fame provided the first CIA set-up funding of the early Remote Viewing research. Which I find interesting and even suggestive of a continuation of MK-like programs...like some of our birds seem to be bordering on.

reply to post by The GUT


RV'ing is definitely high on the list of studies some of the aviary folks have delved into.

I'd like to do some digging into this as well.

Again, it fits nicely into my nexus of convergence of different, seemingly, "unrelated" phenomena. Much like the antics of the UFOnauts mirroring medieval witchery and faerie tales, the Remote Viewing phenomenon doesn't strike me as much different from Divination, Mediumship, Channeling, Conjuration and Invocation.

In a sense...it ain't nothing new. The only thing new about it, is that it was under taken in the realm of scientific inquiry, or so we are told, rather than as a spiritual inquiry...who knows?

Originally posted by AllenBishop
reply to post by The GUT

 

RV'ing is definitely high on the list of studies some of the aviary folks have delved into.

I'd like to do some digging into this as well.

Last time it was brought up here, it brought some interesting folk into the discussion. So maybe we both can further that thought.

...In a sense...it ain't nothing new. The only thing new about it, is that it was under taken in the realm of scientific inquiry, or so we are told, rather than as a spiritual inquiry...who knows?

Well Drs Green and Alexander, and Hal Puthoff even, maybe especially him, are of the modern scientist/physicist/metaphysicist/alchemist/ persuasion. Weird science. But who knows what strange mysteries they know, or think they might know?

Hal Puthoff & Col. John B. Alexander w/Mind-Bent Metal

Then again, they may be daffier than they take us to be. For example, both Col. John Alexander and Gen. Stubblebine were on the board of a remote viewing for hire venture(s) in association with Ed Dames.

PSI-TECH

Retired Major General Albert N. Stubblebine (Former Director of U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command) and Alexander are on the board of a "remote viewing" company called PSI-TECH. The company also employs Major Edward Dames (ex Defence Intelligence Agency), Major David Morehouse (ex 82nd Airborne Division), and Ron Blackburn (former microwave scientist and specialist at Kirkland Air Force Base). .

Remote Viewing Association Members

John Alexander and Paul Smith tend to downplay Dames these days, but they certainly were willing to work or go into business with him. But if Dames is pretty "out there," then how "out there" might that make Col. John B. Alexander? I don't think he's bothering--and attempting to communicate with dolphins by ESP--for their potential military applications these days.

He has long been interested in what used to be regarded as "fringe" areas. In 1971, while a Captain in the infantry at Schofield Barracks, Honolulu, he was diving in the Bimini Islands looking for the lost continent of Atlantis. He was an official representative for the Silva mind control organisation and a lecturer on Precataclysmic Civilisations (21). Alexander is also a past President and a Board member of the International Association for Near Death Studies; and, with his former wife, Jan Northup, he helped Dr. C.B. Scott Jones perform ESP experiments with dolphins (22).

adamjeremiah.com...

Here's some 'out there" stuff and Col. Alexander details an official military intel scientific test of John Hutchison and the so-called Hutchison Effect.

In the following piece from Fortean Times, Col. Alexander seems rather forthcoming of his suspicion that the Hutchison Effect may have had, in his words, "poltergeist-type phenomena

Paranormal Soldier: John Alexander
From Special Services to spoon-benders and UFOs

Jim Scnabel: One of the less well-known phenomena you looked into, in those days, was the so-called Hutchison Effect [see FT92:25], in which a Canad­ian inventor, John Hutchison, claimed to be able to create some kind of previously undescribed force that could levit­ate objects, among other things.



John Alexander: …And we paid them to work with Hutchison to do that, and at a certain point we sent a couple of guys up there from Los Alamos [National Laboratory] and some others from INSCOM. I arrived a day early, and they said, wow, we just had levitation, and we just turned the system off, haven’t touched a thing.

So the idea was that the next day we’d turn it back on when the scientists came. Well, the scientists came and they turned it back on and absolutely nothing happened. Except that the power supply caught fire. They took a day to get a new one in, and turned it on and we watched – and again, nothing happened.



JS: You never knew what to make of it?



JA: I think events happened, but I can’t explain them. My key question to Hutchison was: “Are you part of the system?” Because I suspected that these were poltergeist-type phenomena. 

One of the usual factors in poltergeist phenomena is emotionally disturbed people. And when I knew him, Hutchison was on methadone. 

By the way, all this had started because he liked to sit in the dark and watch sparks.

So he had set up Van de Graaf generators and Tesla coils and Jacob’s Ladders and stuff like that. He said that the effects he initially came up with were accidental. 

And when I asked him whether he was part of the system, he said, “Yes.” So I really wondered if what we had was a guy doing poltergeist phenomena in a lab. At the time at INSCOM I already had been looking into psychokinesis. 


Are you "part of the system" he asks Hutchison? Are you part of the system John Alexander? That sounds pretty woo-woo.

The following is a short and entertaining piece I think. Alexander leaves the door open for some kind of, well, maybe "Trickster" phenomenon is what he's saying?

Contains more detail of the official military-intelligence/Los Alamos study of Hutchison including a more in-depth interview with John Alexander.



So…Weirdo/PsyOps guys or Weird Science/PsyOps guys?

It might be interesting to note, and some researchers believes this ties into the remote viewing programs, but think about the electromagnetic fields (EM) that surround Hutchison night and day.

Our birds have a long interest in the EM effects on the brain and much of it from the military-intel-science complex perspective. EM has long been associated with UFO reports and high-strangeness events as we know. And we're all familiar with Michael Persinger's experiments ala the "God Helmet" and his more recent experiments with the late Ingo Swann of the EM effects on Ingo's RV accuracy.

The Remote Viewing cadre, as has been mentioned here before, were required to be classified "Human Use Experimentation." Alex Constatine and others have suggested there's evidence that the remote viewers were being secretly, or knowingly, blasted with various EM and microwave fields to test their ability to connect with,...something...maybe, even as Col. John B. Alexander called it, "the System?" (On a side-note, maybe foo-fighters are from the same place?)

Are they finding something truly strange in these arenas? Or just a lil' nutters? If they are indeed finding "something" then what might that be? And, can we trust the military-industrial-complex with it?

And to think there's no form of any continued mind-control testing and social engineering, of some sort. mixed-up in all of this would seem naive of us.

I realize this will only appeal to the diehard document digging demons, but...
When Gerald. K. Haines' "CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90" was Published in the CIA magazine, Studies in Intelligence, it was intended for in-house viewing. It was later reprinted in their annual collection with minor edits. When it was declassified, they originally used the first magazine article, redacting it with white sections over the problem text. Later, a text version was produced based on the second published version, edited slightly to smooth over the cuts in the text.

Im fascinated by those missing words. Checking this thread, I went back to look and discovered that the second version from the collection has some of that material intact. Found at DTIC.mil:
www.dtic.mil...

An interesting sentence in the original began:
CIA also continued its contacts [about seven tantalizing words redacted] in this area and maintained Intelligence Community coordination...

Was changed to

CIA also maintained Intelligence Community coordination with other agencies regarding their work in parapsychology, psychic phenomena, and "remote viewing" experiments. In general, the Agency took a conservative scientific view of these unconventional scientific issues. There was no formal or official UFO project within the Agency in the 1980s, and Agency officials purposely kept files on UFOs to a minimum to avoid creating records that might mislead the public if released. 90

The footnote:

90 See John Brennan, memorandum for Richard Warshaw, Executive Assistant, DCI, "Requested Information on UFOs," 30 September 1993; Author interviews with OSWR analyst, 14 June 1994 and OSI analyst, 21 July 1994. This author found almost no documentation on Agency involvement with UFOs in the 1980s.

There is a DIA Psychic Center and the NSA studies parapsychology, that branch of psychology that deals with the investigation of such psychic phenomena as clairvoyance, extrasensory perception, and telepathy. [About seven words redacted] the CIA reportedly is also a member of an Incident Response Team to investigate UFO landings, if one should occur. This team has never met. The lack of solid CIA documentation on Agency UFO-related activities in the 1980s leaves the entire issue somewhat murky for this period.

Anyway, interesting material for lots of reasons. Col. John B. Alexander mentioned how his "Advanced Theoretical Physics Group" was named so to avoid the UFO label and they strived not to generate information to later be produced in FOIA requests. It sounds like the whole Intelligence Community had started working form the same playbook in this regard.

Also, who else is on that "Incident Response Team"? NSA, NRO, FEMA?

Originally posted by AllenBishop
reply to post by The GUT

 

RV'ing is definitely high on the list of studies some of the aviary folks have delved into.

I'd like to do some digging into this as well.

Again, it fits nicely into my nexus of convergence of different, seemingly, "unrelated" phenomena. Much like the antics of the UFOnauts mirroring medieval witchery and faerie tales, the Remote Viewing phenomenon doesn't strike me as much different from Divination, Mediumship, Channeling, Conjuration and Invocation.

In a sense...it ain't nothing new. The only thing new about it, is that it was under taken in the realm of scientific inquiry, or so we are told, rather than as a spiritual inquiry...who knows?

RV is interesting from the perspective of a potential psyop. After all, anyone doing RV tests for intelligence is handing over the equivalent of a dream diary on a regular basis (not to mention the obvious utility of RV to intelligence were it to be proven reliable for its intended purpose). Someone's RV transcripts provide lots of material for manipulation, at the very least; the utility for analysis is less clear (as an example of psychological analysis for military intelligence, see the fairly ludicrous analysis of Hitler's personality that claimed that he was an impotent latent-homosexual S&M fetishist, without clear evidence -- even very important analyses can be very unreliable if you look too deeply). However, if the RV operative is within the UFO or fortean community (as with Ed Dames), a fairly raw dump from the inside of his head might reveal something that can be generalized to large chunks of the community (and clearly his visions had some mythic traction with Art Bell's audience in particular).

If all else fails, quoting bits and pieces of people's inner mental life back at them in different contexts subtly is an extremely useful mechanism for manipulation -- particularly if they are already prone to chasing synchronicities.

In other words, it's possible that the focus on RV is essentially different from some of the other strange attractors coming up in the research (like EM research) in that it might be a completely practical concern for the mechanics of psyop, as opposed to things that seem to be brought in for the sake of the mythos. If we for a moment assume that the mythos is solely the product of intelligence manipulation for the purpose of experimentation, everything in the mythos can be changed with something else (for instance, you can replace UFO mythos with theosophy mythos, or sasquatch mythos) *except* remote viewing, which must stay in place. Remote viewing does not lose its usefulness regardless of how much of the mythos is true, so long as some of it is still being misrepresented.

Originally posted by CardDown
The footnote:

90 See John Brennan, memorandum for Richard Warshaw, Executive Assistant, DCI, "Requested Information on UFOs," 30 September 1993; Author interviews with OSWR analyst, 14 June 1994 and OSI analyst, 21 July 1994. This author found almost no documentation on Agency involvement with UFOs in the 1980s.

There is a DIA Psychic Center and the NSA studies parapsychology, that branch of psychology that deals with the investigation of such psychic phenomena as clairvoyance, extrasensory perception, and telepathy. [About seven words redacted] the CIA reportedly is also a member of an Incident Response Team to investigate UFO landings, if one should occur. This team has never met. The lack of solid CIA documentation on Agency UFO-related activities in the 1980s leaves the entire issue somewhat murky for this period.

"This team has never met." I guess the inference is there's never been a crash site? Or does it just mean the team had never personally had a meeting at the time it was written and thereby qualifying both?

We know that the ATPG did meet at least once or twice.

If the Advanced Theoretical Physics Group was an Incident Response Team, then where would that leave us on Col. John B. Alexander?

Can we trust what he has to say on UFOs and the government? I found Alexander's UFOs: Myths, Conspiracies, and Realities a mixed bag. At times his logic seemed ironclad, but in other places very porous---as in full of holes. Sometimes holes big enough to drive a NATO truck through, ahem.

He also seems to proffer something along the lines of the interdimensional hypothesis, and the book does include a Foreward by Dr. Jacques Vallee.

I basically do believe that the government, for the most part, is just as mystified as we are about the phenomenon. However, on the other hand, they have spent a lot of money and time--as has John Alexander--on subjects that might fall under the "non-local" category. The weird sciences as it were.

Is there a clue in that? Dr. Green has a long interest in that category as well, we know. According to Jacques Vallee in Forbidden Science II, Kit Green once told him he was on his way to witness a "materialization." Of a "craft" apparently!

reply to post by The GUT


Haven't you brought up on t his thread before that Alexander was reportedly at some point driving around the Bahamas or some such tropical area, supposedlly looking for Atlantis? I would think that would say a lot about his own doubts about the "belief system" he seems to reinforce....
Respectfully,
Tetra50

Originally posted by OkabeRintaro
RV is interesting from the perspective of a potential psyop. After all, anyone doing RV tests for intelligence is handing over the equivalent of a dream diary on a regular basis (not to mention the obvious utility of RV to intelligence were it to be proven reliable for its intended purpose). Someone's RV transcripts provide lots of material for manipulation, at the very least...However, if the RV operative is within the UFO or fortean community (as with Ed Dames), a fairly raw dump from the inside of his head might reveal something that can be generalized to large chunks of the community (and clearly his visions had some mythic traction with Art Bell's audience in particular).

If all else fails, quoting bits and pieces of people's inner mental life back at them in different contexts subtly is an extremely useful mechanism for manipulation -- particularly if they are already prone to chasing synchronicities.

Okabe that was one, heavy, brain-stimulating offering. Thank you.

RV as a constant, huh? I like it. Especially, from my pov, because it sits fully poised to be applied to any mythos we have going. That's the idea that hit me when reading your very thought-provoking post.

It could be used to help "validate" any quantum-heavy explanation that might be proffered to us. From ET to Interdimensionals to Neo-Spirituality to...whatever psyops-friendly mythos might be "needed" at the time, I suppose, in my uber-suspicious mind.

I do feel that our remote viewing cadre got a real mind-effing. And I'm personally very certain that, yes, they are/were vulnerable to past and present manipulation.

Your thoughts remind of Scientology's "auditing sessions" where, if one is serious--and you probably wouldn't be sitting there with tin cans in your hand and minus some fairly hefty $$ if you weren't--you are pretty much required to spill your innermost self and secrets.

Those most intimate details are, of course, recorded in one's file. (I have met with the author of the above information/link, btw, and am very familiar with Scientology.)

Which brings me to Hal Puthoff. He won't mention the direct link between remote viewing and Scientology teachings/beliefs. Nor that he was a "Clear" in Scientology terms. Nor that both Ingo Swann and Pat Price were Scientologists as well. That slap-in-the-face fact, apparently, pisses some Scientologists off. As it should.

Should L. Ron Hubbard be given the credit for Remote Viewing?

Puthoff took an interest in the Church of Scientology in the late 1960s and reached what was then the top OT VII level by 1971.

Puthoff wrote up his "wins" for a Scientology publication, claiming to have achieved "remote viewing" abilities.[3] In 1974, Puthoff also wrote a piece for Scientology's Celebrity magazine, stating that Scientology had given him "a feeling of absolute fearlessness".[4] Puthoff claimed to have severed all connection with Scientology in the late 1970s.[5]

en.wikipedia.org...

A Question: Is it possible, Dr. Puthoff, to be a mytho-plagiarist?

I'm NOT saying that there isn't any small statistical basis for the empirical validity of remote viewing. I'm not saying there is, either. It's shaky ground.

One of the early experiments, lauded by proponents as having improved the methodology of remote viewing testing and as raising future experimental standards, was criticized as leaking information to the participants by inadvertently leaving clues.

Some later experiments had negative results when these clues were eliminated.

en.wikipedia.org...

And:

A variety of scientific studies of remote viewing have been conducted. Some earlier, less sophisticated experiments produced positive results but they had invalidating flaws.

[24] None of the more recent experiments have shown positive results when conducted under properly controlled conditions.[3][5][6][11][21] This lack of successful experiments has led the mainstream scientific community to reject remote viewing, based upon the absence of an evidence base, the lack of a theory which would explain remote viewing, and the lack of experimental techniques which can provide reliably positive results.[25] It is also considered a pseudoscience.[26]

en.wikipedia.org...

So…maybe…it's a "mytho-standby" so-to-speak, since no one can fully deny it because of the earlier reports by Targ and Puthoff?

Not that that stops Hal Puthoff from putting his own carefully-crafted and not fully candid spin on the subject. "Remote Viewing: A martial art for the mind!"---so says a video blurb.

I readily concede that all the various Aviary-related folk mentioned in this thread are brilliant and well-composed individuals. Hal Puthoff, as seen in the following vid, certainly fits that criteria and is an exceptional presenter.

Those qualities should never be construed as having anything to do with either veracity nor character, however.

Not that I'm calling Hal's character into question, at this point, per se, but he doesn't seem above playing a little fast and loose with details, either, if one familiarizes oneself with the history of remote viewing.

Examples are evident in the following fairly interesting Puthoff speech on the history of remote viewing. Minus--of course--the Scientology connection. Minus a few other pertinent details as well, ahem. Plus, maybe even a little gratuitous patting of his own back?



Here's Scientology's often-accurate review of remote viewing. I say "often-accurate" because of the L. Ron Hubbard mythology, but the historical info seems to check out fairly well:

Scientology/Remote Viewing Timeline

Speaking of Ed Dames & Remote Viewing also reminds me of the alleged Aviary ties to the Comet Hale-Bopp and the Heaven's Gate mass-suicide. Jacques Vallee in Messengers of Deception makes reference to CIA involvement in "cult" building and maintenance.

Vallee also suggests how dangerous that might be for the victims of such an intelligence-contrived mythos. Sort of, to use an analogy, "We brought you into this world, and we can take you out." As deemed "profitable" of course.

Remote Viewing apologists and revisionists--all from the cadre itself--would like to erase the mental/emotional problems experienced by the remote viewing test subjects and a lot of the fairly "out-there" UFO and ET material that came through during sessions. But they really can't when the actual history is laid bare. "Human Use Experimentation" indeed. Like the MK-ULTRA subjects…only volunteers.

The following is Ed Dames on Remote Viewing. Highly entertaining. I like Ed for some reason. Maybe I feel for him in light of the probable damage done him by his "Human Use Experimentation" history/designation.

Originally posted by tetra50
Haven't you brought up on t his thread before that Alexander was reportedly at some point driving around the Bahamas or some such tropical area, supposedlly looking for Atlantis? I would think that would say a lot about his own doubts about the "belief system" he seems to reinforce....
Respectfully,Tetra50

Hiya, Tetra!

Maybe someone can read through this for some research clues while I'm out for the afternoon? More on Col. John B. Alexander:

osdir.com...

Let's do a quick review here of some material that might have gotten buried in the free-for-all.

One of the keys here is that the pseudonymous "JIm" in the first excerpt below has been convincingly "outed" as Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green.

The following excerpt is from award-winning journalist Guy Russo's article, Is Uncle Sam A Closet Ufologist?

Then there is Jim, whose professional history in the subject goes back to his personal involvement in the Stargate project in the 1970’s and as a participant in the legendary “Working Group” meetings in the eighties. As one of the intel community’s most senior medical analysts, Jim frequently communicates with UFOlogists.

Chris Iverson believes that Tom and Jim clearly have differing agendas, noting, “Jim is the person I have had the most contact with over the last several months and he seems to be interested in the spreading of viral memes over the internet, particularly in relation to this subject.”…

“The whole subject,” Jim says in wonderfully measured speech, “is composed of three components: delusion, sociological groupthink, and a kernel of truth.” Jim then reminds that he is first and foremost a medical scientist. “My interest in this subject is much, much more professional than it is personal. That is, 90 to 95% of all persons who are engaged fully with this [UFO] subject are psychiatrically ill, and by that I mean that they are on medication or should be.” Jim elaborates that “viral memes,”[see below] in which disturbed people seek validation in numbers on the web, is, or should be, a growing public health concern. That said, Jim nonetheless has a real interest in UFO’s, and seemingly with good reason.

Both Tom and Jim seem to share at least one rationale for their internet excursions: studying the frightening potential of “viral internet memes.”

Coined by evolutionary theorist Richard Dawkins in 1976 (The Selfish Gene), a meme is a unit of cultural information that evolves the way a gene propagates from one organism to another, and subject to all the analogous unintended mutations. In the view of many, computers and blogs could function as powerful meme “replicators.”


Richard Brodie, the creator of Microsoft Word, notes, “Most of these viruses of the mind are spread because they are intriguing or frightening or inspiring, and not necessarily because they're true. That's the problem.” It doesn’t take much intuition to envision an enemy creating memes that can be used to destabilize a society, or a freelance predator utilizing them to cozy up to potential victims. Caryn Anscomb writes online,

“The UFO community has been deeply penetrated by the manipulators of information, who couldn’t really give a fig whether there might be any valuable data pertaining to Aliens and contact hidden behind the deafening noise. That’s not their business; their business is information warfare.”

www.realityuncovered.net...

And:

Memes are contagious ideas that replicate like viruses from mind to mind. The Internet is like a Petri dish in which memes multiply rapidly. Fed by fascination, incubated in the feverish excitement of devotees transmitting stories of cosmic significance, the UFO meme mutates into new forms, some of them wondrous and strange.

"The Roswell incident" is but one variation of the UFO meme. On the Internet, Schmitt's words are hyperlinked to those of other UFO sleuths and legions of interested bystanders like myself, as fascinated by the psychodynamics of the subculture as by the "data" exchanged as currency in that marketplace. Before we examine a few fragments, let's pause to remember what the Internet really IS…

…Certain phenomena, including UFOs and religious symbols, elicit powerful projections. We think we're seeing "out there" what is really inside us. Because projections are unconscious, we don't know if we're looking at iron filings obscuring a magnet or the magnet itself. Carl Jung said UFOs invite projections because they're mandalas - archetypal images of our deep Selves. Unless we separate what he think we see from what we see, we're bound to be confused.

Repetition makes any statement seem true. Hundreds of cross-referenced links on the Web create a matrix of even greater credibility. In print, we document assertions with references. Footnotes are conspicuous by their absence on the Web. Information is self-referential. Symbols and images point to themselves like a ten-dimensional dog chasing its own tails. "Roswell" may be the name of the game, but what does the name really say?

www.ctheory.net...

Now let's take a look at associations. I wouldn't want to be characterized by ALL my past associations, but I also realize that our associations often speak volumes:

Homeland Security, Defense and Human Effects Experts Appointed to Harrington Advisory Board

MDM Group, Inc. announced that MDM Group subsidiary, Harrington Group Limited earlier today advised the Australian Stock Exchange of the appointment of an additional three world-renowned homeland security experts as founding members of the Harrington Group Advisory Board.

www.prweb.com...

3 "world-renowned" Homeland Security "experts?" Who might that include?

Joining Colonel John Alexander, a global authority on non-lethal weapons and defense, will be Dr. Christopher Green, a forensic medicine and electrophysiology specialist, Dr. Edward Stephen, a specialist in pharmacology and bioterrorism defense, and Dr. Allen Bain, a leading pharmacologist focused on specialised drug development including new treatments for disorders of electrically active tissue.

The combined expertise of the Advisory Board will provide Harrington with outstanding guidance in strategic product development and commercialisation, and grow the Company's profile in the law enforcement, defense and homeland security sectors.

www.prweb.com...

True American heroes! In the sense that they truly are if one is "Republic" minded. My personal admiration, however, is tempered by a variety of ethical and/or philosophical concerns.

And I bet we would ALL feel safer if those type of Patriots (Even if they do make a buck here and there with private military-industrial-complex firms of international vintage such as the "Harrington Group) were on boards much closer to our hearts!

It is with GREAT PLEASURE and PRIDE that we announce the addition of Dr Christopher "Kit" Green to the AboveTopSecret.com Team.

Dr. Green is not only one of the most congenial, genuine and PLEASANT gentlemen I've ever spoken with he is without question one of the TOP Forensic Medicine, Radiology, and Psychiatry & Behavioral Neurosciences and fMRI geniuses alive on this planet.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I, for one, sure am glad that Dr. Green and John Alexander are on "our" side!